Strong gas smell as Spyder sits in garage even with recall gas cap

[Dan McNally]

Be careful not to completely fill the tank . . . leave a little space for expansion, because gas coming from an underground tank will expand in a hot motorcycle. That minimizes, somewhat, the chance that liquid gas will end up in the charcoal canister. The tank isn't air tight, and the canister is designed to trap gasoline vapors that vent out of it, and hold them until they get sucked back into the engine when it is running. Overfilling the gas tank can result in raw fuel filling the canister.

Another thing I have found helpful is to fill my gas tank at the nearest gas station to home at the end of a ride. I'm lucky, as I have one only half a mile away. Gas can boil between 100 and 400 degrees, and adding cold gas cools the gas in the tank and helps minimize evaporation through the charcoal canister. When I do the top off, I don't get the gas smell in the garage . . . when I skip it, I do.

If you don't have a gas station close, keep a couple gallons of gas in a gas can at home, and use that to add to the tank to cool it before parking it in the garage.

 

[billybovine]

Since you are a new owner it is possible you are not revving high enough for the stored vapours in the canister to clear out. Then when you are parked the cannister is not able to hold more, giving you the strong gas smell. You need to operate your Spyder while driving in 2nd to 5th gear higher than 4,000 rpm. This is unless you are slowing for a stop of course. This will ensure that the purge valve is open and the air flow is high, clearing fumes from the charcoal canister.

 

[MikeinGA]

I got my 2012 Spyder RTS earlier this week and today about an hour after getting home, my wife says "Do you smell gas"? I immediately when to the downstairs garage and the very strong smell of gasoline hit me right away. The Spyder had been sitting for about an hour after my 10mi ride home.

When I bought the unit I checked the gas cap to make sure it matched the one shown in their recall PDF here http://www.spyder.brp.com/DownloadFile.ashx?fileID=f72284b2-d9a5-47f9-8d40-a22900b772fa so I think I have the proper gas cap.

Anyone have any ideas?

Have two fire extinguisher at to different locations in your garage. When you smell gas push the Spyder out of the garage. Keep the gas tank above 1/2 full when putting it the garage and let it cool down for about 1/2 hour outside and you don't have any gas smell. Some Spyders had started on fire inside the garage. Don't over fill the gas tank, leave gas one inch below the inlet of the tank. This will help and keep your garage safe. That's IMHO.


Mike

 

[MMcc]

Cure for gas smell

2011 RTs. Always had boiling gas and the gas smell after a ryde. Last winter I installed JT's air cleaner system and that solved the problem. I believe the residual heat trapped under the TW caused the problem. The air cleaner replacement was not difficult just time consuming. Now the heat escapes from the two vents under the mirrors when stopped and more airflow around the engine reduces the build up of heat during ryding. Simple and inexpensive cure for my spyder.

 

[jcthorne]

Can we PLEASE stop perpetuation the MYTH about overfilling the fuel tank?

You CANNOT overfill it. The inlet is WELL below the top of the tank and you cannot pour gas uphill. Filling to the top of the inlet leaves PLENTY of vapor space for liquid expansion.

Overfilling the tank does not happen and is NOT the cause for the gas fumes. Too many dealers using this tired story to avoid dealing with the issue. They would rather blame the customer than tell them the truth that its a known 'operational characteristic' and BRP has no intention to fix it.

 

[billybovine]

Can we PLEASE stop perpetuation the MYTH about overfilling the fuel tank?

You CANNOT overfill it. The inlet is WELL below the top of the tank and you cannot pour gas uphill. Filling to the top of the inlet leaves PLENTY of vapor space for liquid expansion.

Overfilling the tank does not happen and is NOT the cause for the gas fumes. Too many dealers using this tired story to avoid dealing with the issue. They would rather blame the customer than tell them the truth that its a known 'operational characteristic' and BRP has no intention to fix it.

With all due respect. I think that is an opinion not a fact. Unless you have done the math, please share. My area of the planet the gas will come out of underground tank at 50F and it is not unreasonable to expect the gas to reach 100F. There is a lot of thermal expansion going on there. You may be correct but I would like that verified.

 

[jcthorne]

With all due respect. I think that is an opinion not a fact. Unless you have done the math, please share. My area of the planet the gas will come out of underground tank at 50F and it is not unreasonable to expect the gas to reach 100F. There is a lot of thermal expansion going on there. You may be correct but I would like that verified.

Gasoline has a nominal coefficient of thermal expansion of 0.00053 (for degF). 6 gallons of gasoline warming from 50 degF to 100 degF would yield 6.159 gallons.

The fill hole in the inlet port of the fuel tank is more than 3" below the top of the tank. Well over 1 gallon of vapor space without specific volumetric calculations needed. Its not even close to overfilling due to thermal expansion. If it were anywhere near the design margins, it would never have passed EPA certification as it would be spilling liquid fuel. Its not. Its expelling gasoline vapors due to boiling gasoline (vaporization).

If you would like to check my calculations or verify my thermal expansion number, please see engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[Magdave]

Can we PLEASE stop perpetuation the MYTH about overfilling the fuel tank?

You CANNOT overfill it. The inlet is WELL below the top of the tank and you cannot pour gas uphill. Filling to the top of the inlet leaves PLENTY of vapor space for liquid expansion.

Overfilling the tank does not happen and is NOT the cause for the gas fumes. Too many dealers using this tired story to avoid dealing with the issue. They would rather blame the customer than tell them the truth that its a known 'operational characteristic' and BRP has no intention to fix it.

:agree: ABSOLUTELY 100% Time to get it right people it just can 't happen. The problem is the deficient EVAP system PERIOD :sour:

 

[jcthorne]

:agree: ABSOLUTELY 100% Time to get it right people it just can 't happen. The problem is the deficient EVAP system PERIOD :sour:

Picture worth a thousand words. Thanks for posting Dave.

 

[Woodsrider]

"they all do that"

I was on a group ride and the only Spyder. We pulled in for a break and after a few minutes one of the guys started asking around 'hey, check your bikes guys, someone has a gas leak, I'm smellin raw gas something fierce'. Told him to relax, it's just a feature of my Spyder.

They didn't park so close after that.....

 

[AbNormy]

Thanks for this

 

[Buzzatronic]

This would explain why my diligent attention to filling the tank (and err'ing on the side of less gas in to prevent overfilling) hasn't fixed my gas smell after long/hot rides. :/

Is removing the evap canister my only real option here? The Spyder is effectively making the rest of my garage unusable unless I turn use a box fan with the garage open to vent the gas fumes. This is sub optimal for a number of reasons just as leaving my front door open would not be an option if my refrigerator was creating gas fumes on hot days.

 

[Woodsrider]

This would explain why my diligent attention to filling the tank (and err'ing on the side of less gas in to prevent overfilling) hasn't fixed my gas smell after long/hot rides. :/

Is removing the evap canister my only real option here? The Spyder is effectively making the rest of my garage unusable unless I turn use a box fan with the garage open to vent the gas fumes. This is sub optimal for a number of reasons just as leaving my front door open would not be an option if my refrigerator was creating gas fumes on hot days.

Me personally, I'd push on the dealer about it. Mine is parked in a carport so not a concern. At least get the complaint on record.

 

[Hecam17]

Someone on the forum suggested, and has worked for me, filling at the end of your ride. The cooler fuel brings down the temp of the fuel left in the tank and I have found I get less gas smell in the garage.

 

[spyryder]

I wonder if a shut off valve were installed in the vent line from the tank to the canister? Some pressure could likely build up but I believe the gas cap has a relief valve in case of too much pressure. :dontknow:

 

[billybovine]

Gasoline has a nominal coefficient of thermal expansion of 0.00053 (for degF). 6 gallons of gasoline warming from 50 degF to 100 degF would yield 6.159 gallons.

The fill hole in the inlet port of the fuel tank is more than 3" below the top of the tank. Well over 1 gallon of vapor space without specific volumetric calculations needed. Its not even close to overfilling due to thermal expansion. If it were anywhere near the design margins, it would never have passed EPA certification as it would be spilling liquid fuel. Its not. Its expelling gasoline vapors due to boiling gasoline (vaporization).

If you would like to check my calculations or verify my thermal expansion number, please see engineeringtoolbox.com

I don't know where you got the 3 inches but I immediately felt it was unreasonable. I have done some measuring and I think reasonable estimating.

It is 2 1/2 inches from the bottom of the filler neck baffle to the top of the rollover valve clearance hump in the gas tank cover. I was able to get a ruler between the frame and gas tank cover and from the cover hump to the gas tank was 7/8 inch. So that brings the top of the gas tank 1 5/8 inches above the filler neck baffle. The roll over valve fits in a recessed flange on the top of the tank I am estimating to be 1/4 inch deep. The roll over valve appears, by estimating by the parts fiche, to be 1 1/4 inches long from the mating surface. So that makes the roll over valve 1 1/2 inches below the top of the tank. So it bring the fuel level to 1/8 inch of the rollover valve, without thermal expansion. This is based on my actual dimensions and I think reasonable estimates.

If anyone is able to measure the flange depth in the top of the gas tank and the length of the rollover valve. I would be interested in the actual values.

 

[sledmaster]

The way I see it is this is yet another case of the EPA screwing things up. The gas gets hot in the tank with the tight confines of the CAT and the Tupperware. The EPA does not want the fumes vented directly to the atmosphere (emissions) so they force the mfgs to vent to a charcoal canister, which the vehicle can later suck some of it back into the system. An effort to reduce emissions.

Some units get really hot, some smell really strong. As stated, adding some cold gas before parking it works well to reduce the fuel vapors being expelled. I believe that removing the charcoal canister will simply vent these vapors directly to the atmosphere instead of storing them, so there should not be a build-up stored in the canister when you go to park it. But if the gas is still hot at that time, there would still be some vapors....yes?

Ideally get rid of the CAT and the canister, that would functionally be the ideal situation, agreed? Till then, just add some cold gas before parking it and the issue should be minimized. Does this sound about right?

 

[jcthorne]

I don't know where you got the 3 inches but I immediately felt it was unreasonable. I have done some measuring and I think reasonable estimating.

It is 2 1/2 inches from the bottom of the filler neck baffle to the top of the rollover valve clearance hump in the gas tank cover. I was able to get a ruler between the frame and gas tank cover and from the cover hump to the gas tank was 7/8 inch. So that brings the top of the gas tank 1 5/8 inches above the filler neck baffle. The roll over valve fits in a recessed flange on the top of the tank I am estimating to be 1/4 inch deep. The roll over valve appears, by estimating by the parts fiche, to be 1 1/4 inches long from the mating surface. So that makes the roll over valve 1 1/2 inches below the top of the tank. So it bring the fuel level to 1/8 inch of the rollover valve, without thermal expansion. This is based on my actual dimensions and I think reasonable estimates.

If anyone is able to measure the flange depth in the top of the gas tank and the length of the rollover valve. I would be interested in the actual values.

Regardless of the position of the rollover valve, the fuel has to rise to the top of the tank and up the breather hose to get out. So, OK 2 1/2 inches instead of the 3 inches I quoted from sight, I did not measure. Its still so far from over flowing due to thermal expansion as to not be credible. Besides, if it did, folks like me with no canister would have liquid gas spilling on the ground. I don't. Only fumes venting when the bike is hot. Much less so since I have done a great deal to remove heat, but its still there when I park in the garage.

Yes, adding cold fuel to the hot tank helps a lot when I remember. I have also started trying Lucas Ethanol Fuel stabilizer and so far its noticeably better when using it. Wifs of fumes, instead of a garage full and into the house. but I have only been using it for 2 weeks now, too early to tell for sure. It does work to lower the vapor pressure of the ethanol blend fuel, so makes sense that it might help. Its cheap enough.

 

[billybovine]

Regardless of the position of the rollover valve, the fuel has to rise to the top of the tank and up the breather hose to get out. So, OK 2 1/2 inches instead of the 3 inches I quoted from sight, I did not measure. Its still so far from over flowing due to thermal expansion as to not be credible. Besides, if it did, folks like me with no canister would have liquid gas spilling on the ground. I don't. Only fumes venting when the bike is hot. Much less so since I have done a great deal to remove heat, but its still there when I park in the garage.

Yes, adding cold fuel to the hot tank helps a lot when I remember. I have also started trying Lucas Ethanol Fuel stabilizer and so far its noticeably better when using it. Wifs of fumes, instead of a garage full and into the house. but I have only been using it for 2 weeks now, too early to tell for sure. It does work to lower the vapor pressure of the ethanol blend fuel, so makes sense that it might help. Its cheap enough.

The fumes from the tank have to go through the rollover valve. There is no other breather hose. Only the one connected to the valve. So the fuel level just has to rise to valve, not the top of the tank.

 

[900Dave]

When the tank is full I usually have no vapor or very little. The less fuel in the tank the worse the vapor is! That is because 2 or 3 gallons of fuel heats up and boils a lot faster than 6 gallons.