condorflysu
New member
2014 RT's
Does anyone with 2014 RT's have gas fume smells?
Does anyone with 2014 RT's have gas fume smells?
-
There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.
Strong gas smell as Spyder sits in garage even with recall gas cap
- Thread starter Buzzatronic
- Start date
Buzzatronic
New member
What is a reasonable surface temp for the gas cap area under the seat? I used a heat sensor on mine yesterday after a ride and it was seeing upwards of 150 degrees on the OUTSIDE of the tank (pic attached), who knows how much hotter it was on the inside. Yesterday wasn't even a hot day here. It barely hit 80 degrees outside. 
Attachments
Duffer
New member
I didn't bother to look up gas-o-hol, but some web reading brings back flashes of H.S. chemistry class.
Gasoline is a mixture of compounds. ie: fractions
It therefore boils at a 'range' of temps. So unlike, say, water which boils at a single known temp (skipping altitude corrections, etc) Regular gasoline has a boiling range of roughly 90F - 430F
Winter blends boil at a lower range. Summer blends boil at a higher range.
but looking at the 'requirements' for 87 octane gas, "10% should boil off between 122F and 158F"
Read that to mean your gas could begin percolating at 122F or lower. Suppliers will also tweak their blends so the range will vary just between refineries. It would not surprise me if, for instance, Texas gasoline is blended with a higher boil range than gas shipped to Western Washington.
Gasoline is a mixture of compounds. ie: fractions
It therefore boils at a 'range' of temps. So unlike, say, water which boils at a single known temp (skipping altitude corrections, etc) Regular gasoline has a boiling range of roughly 90F - 430F
Winter blends boil at a lower range. Summer blends boil at a higher range.
but looking at the 'requirements' for 87 octane gas, "10% should boil off between 122F and 158F"
Read that to mean your gas could begin percolating at 122F or lower. Suppliers will also tweak their blends so the range will vary just between refineries. It would not surprise me if, for instance, Texas gasoline is blended with a higher boil range than gas shipped to Western Washington.
Duffer
New member
Continued:
The vapor canister has been around for many, many years. A container filled with charcoal (carbon) bits will adsorb organic vapors.... until it gets 'full'. Obviously soaking the carbon with liquid gasoline is sure death for the carbon, but shoving vapors thru it will overload it rather quickly also. It just can't hold all that much vapor. Once 'full' it does nothing more. Pulling the vapors 'out of the carbon' is a much slower process since the carbon has an affinity to organics. That's how it works afterall. Unless you throw the stuff in an oven, it will require LOTS of time and fresh air flushed thru it to make it functional again.
Whether from getting a splash of liquid fuel thru the overflow OR by constantly shoving vapors thru it because your tank is boiling while riding a couple hundred miles in the summer sun, the canister is shot by the time you get home and park. When the purge valve is open (which I'm not quite clear on when that happens) the engine is sucking fresh air thru the canister, trying to clean the carbon but if your boiling (or near boiling) tank is also feeding the canister vapors WHILE the engine is trying to clean the canister.... well that's a losing battle.
So now you've reached home. Your carbon canister is kaput. If the heat inside the tupperware just vanished and/or your gas immediately stopped boiling (as when you top off your tank with cool fuel before arriving home) then the 'full' canister would just sit there waiting to be refreshed and no smells would escape. For many of us tho, that's not the reality!
The area inside the tupperware has been exposed to heat created by the loaded engine (radiators, exhaust, etc) BUT has also been exposed to the air flow from riding (assuming you are not stuck in traffic!) Once you stop moving and shut her down, the engine stops creating heat BUT the airflow also stops!!! Now you have residual heat, contained by the tupperware and no air flow to remove it. At this point, I'm convinced that for a while the heat around the fuel tank actually GOES UP and then dissipates and cools down.
So you've parked. Your canister is probably pretty full. Your gas is at or near boiling. The heat spikes, gas boils, vapors blast thru kaput canister and VIOLA! I mean, PEEEYUUUU!
The vapor canister has been around for many, many years. A container filled with charcoal (carbon) bits will adsorb organic vapors.... until it gets 'full'. Obviously soaking the carbon with liquid gasoline is sure death for the carbon, but shoving vapors thru it will overload it rather quickly also. It just can't hold all that much vapor. Once 'full' it does nothing more. Pulling the vapors 'out of the carbon' is a much slower process since the carbon has an affinity to organics. That's how it works afterall. Unless you throw the stuff in an oven, it will require LOTS of time and fresh air flushed thru it to make it functional again.
Whether from getting a splash of liquid fuel thru the overflow OR by constantly shoving vapors thru it because your tank is boiling while riding a couple hundred miles in the summer sun, the canister is shot by the time you get home and park. When the purge valve is open (which I'm not quite clear on when that happens) the engine is sucking fresh air thru the canister, trying to clean the carbon but if your boiling (or near boiling) tank is also feeding the canister vapors WHILE the engine is trying to clean the canister.... well that's a losing battle.
So now you've reached home. Your carbon canister is kaput. If the heat inside the tupperware just vanished and/or your gas immediately stopped boiling (as when you top off your tank with cool fuel before arriving home) then the 'full' canister would just sit there waiting to be refreshed and no smells would escape. For many of us tho, that's not the reality!
The area inside the tupperware has been exposed to heat created by the loaded engine (radiators, exhaust, etc) BUT has also been exposed to the air flow from riding (assuming you are not stuck in traffic!) Once you stop moving and shut her down, the engine stops creating heat BUT the airflow also stops!!! Now you have residual heat, contained by the tupperware and no air flow to remove it. At this point, I'm convinced that for a while the heat around the fuel tank actually GOES UP and then dissipates and cools down.
So you've parked. Your canister is probably pretty full. Your gas is at or near boiling. The heat spikes, gas boils, vapors blast thru kaput canister and VIOLA! I mean, PEEEYUUUU!
Duffer
New member
running out of wind finally 
I have very little personal experience with this having only a couple hunderd miles in the seat, but already our new 2013 RTS has fumed me out once. Finishing an hour plus ride, air temp 82F max, half tank of gas, open road on final leg of the ride. I finally hit town and after stopping at my 2nd traffic light, with full face helmet on and 78F air, I smell fuel! Light turns green and off I go. Next stop home. Once parked outside, in the driveway I can still smell gas. No drips seen. I opened the seat hoping it would cool faster and listened for boiling sound but heard nothing unusual. She was ready to garage after maybe 15 minutes of cooling.
My thoughts on resolution? This is a design flaw. BRP should address it. Anyone with these symptoms should document them.
BUT, will I wait for them to fix it? Naw. Will I just put up with it? Naw. Since I'm a tinkerer ex-mechanic, I'm just gonna fix it. Many others have and so shall I. Removing the canister is not going to help unless the actual space it creates inside the overcrowded tupperware lets more air thru. If so then moving it somewhere else might be an option. The trick is to push less vapors thru it. Cool the fuel tank. Since this problem is related to my broiled right foot I'll kill two birds with one stone.
Simply put there is either too much heat caught up inside the tupperware (toasting the gas tank much like my right foot) or not enough air flow to remove it.... or both!
Once I pass my 1st dealer service and document my own dissatisfactions, then I'll open this beast up and get to work. With pics :thumbup:
I have very little personal experience with this having only a couple hunderd miles in the seat, but already our new 2013 RTS has fumed me out once. Finishing an hour plus ride, air temp 82F max, half tank of gas, open road on final leg of the ride. I finally hit town and after stopping at my 2nd traffic light, with full face helmet on and 78F air, I smell fuel! Light turns green and off I go. Next stop home. Once parked outside, in the driveway I can still smell gas. No drips seen. I opened the seat hoping it would cool faster and listened for boiling sound but heard nothing unusual. She was ready to garage after maybe 15 minutes of cooling.
My thoughts on resolution? This is a design flaw. BRP should address it. Anyone with these symptoms should document them.
BUT, will I wait for them to fix it? Naw. Will I just put up with it? Naw. Since I'm a tinkerer ex-mechanic, I'm just gonna fix it. Many others have and so shall I. Removing the canister is not going to help unless the actual space it creates inside the overcrowded tupperware lets more air thru. If so then moving it somewhere else might be an option. The trick is to push less vapors thru it. Cool the fuel tank. Since this problem is related to my broiled right foot I'll kill two birds with one stone.
Simply put there is either too much heat caught up inside the tupperware (toasting the gas tank much like my right foot) or not enough air flow to remove it.... or both!
Once I pass my 1st dealer service and document my own dissatisfactions, then I'll open this beast up and get to work. With pics :thumbup:
jcthorne
Well-known member
No, the fuel level has to reach the top of the tank and then the level of the top of the breather hose. Just because it 'reaches' the valve does not move it up and out, the level has to rise to that point. The rollover valve just takes up a bit of space in the tank, does not reduce the level to which the fuel has to rise to get out. Fuel will not go up hill and the rollover valve is sealed on the outside of the tank. Internally its vented so the valve can move freely.
Again, if there was not sufficient vapor space, those with canesterectomies would all have liquid fuel leaking on the floor after a fill up. They do not, only vapors due to boiling fuel.
jcthorne
Well-known member
Good synopsis. As one that has been through this and tried to improve on the problem, I look forward to what you come up with. The more that work on this the closer we will get to 'THE' solution. Mine is better than when BRP built it, but not solved.
Magdave
New member
:agree: The first step BRP needs to take is replace the gas tank with a HEAVILY insulated one. My feeble DEI wrap helps but is not a total solution. The second step is to increase the purge cycle (if possible) and create a valve that will tell you when it fails to open. Obviously wrapping the headers does not work did you see the pics of DatGuy's bike? Only thing not toasted was his wrapped headers. Of course that does nothing for those that may melt the brake MC and now since IT is wrapped we can't even inspect it very easily. Band Aid.
Last edited:
Frank G
New member
First of all, the 2013, and 2014 RT series Spyder are built totally different then the 2012. I have owned a 2011 RS and now have a 2012 RTL. with over 7,000 miles each. I park in the garage all the time and have NEVER smelled gas. We ride in the same temperatures you do 60's to higher 80's. Something is wrong with your spyder and it is fixable.
I have never taken the temperature of the fill cap, but it has never been hot to the touch, nor have I or most other spyder riders ever experienced "Boiling Gas".
I frequently go on group rides with up to 60 some spyders, and have yet to enter into a "Hot Spyder" "Gas Smelling" discussion.
Not sure if you purchased the bike new or used, or miles on it. In my opinion you need to get this "Gas Smell" checked out, it may be a small gas leak that could create bigger issues.
Wish you the best of luck.
jcthorne
Well-known member
Sorry but one more person who THINKS they have a bike that is somehow different from every other RT that has this same DESIGN DEFECT just because they have not smelled gas, is not helping. Your spyder is designed the same in this regard as all other RTs up through and including 2013. The 14s are completely different. Just because you have not smelled it just means that you have not ridden in the same set of circumstances that I and others have or that your are less sensitive to the smell of gasoline. If I rode your bike here in Houston on my normal commute to work and back, IT WOULD STINK OF GAS FUMES just like mine. Likely worse as I have already done considerable work to help the issue.
Please, get your head out of the sand. Denial is a river in Egypt, has no place here.
Please, get your head out of the sand. Denial is a river in Egypt, has no place here.
Frank G
New member
That is the point I was trying to make. the OP is in Seattle, not Texas. He has a 2012 not a 2013. On a 80 deg F day there should be no gas smell.
Why do you 2013 people hijack a 2012 poster and think you know everything. :gaah:
Frank G
New member
By the way, what do you want me to help you with???
flaggerphil
New member
I ride mine in central Florida and only have the gas smell after a long, hot, hard ride. And it dissipates quickly.
How does that make me in denial?
jcthorne
Well-known member
It doesn't. you just stated yours has what most of us call a defect. My comment was only related to the posts that state their bike does not have this 'characteristic' at all. The fact that it does not bother you or you work around it is just honest. It obviously bothers some more than others. I will readily admit I am very intolerant of gasoline fumes. They give me very bad headaches in mere minutes.
Magdave
New member
The only thing a '13 has in common with previous years is the engine and radiator. The rest of the bike IS a 2014 except they moved some parts around on the 13 drive train including the battery and EVAP canister. IIRC the E-Brake too.
flaggerphil
New member
Well, I don't know about you, but most motorcycles I've owned over the years have had, to greater or lesser degree, the same smell after long, hot rides. I just associate with riding, I don't consider it a defect.
YMMV.
jcthorne
Well-known member
Our 2 spyders are only bikes numbers 4 and 5. But they are definitely the first two we have had fill the garage and house with gas fumes. Minor smells yes, but not gas clouds of obnoxious fumes. The 2008 Harley made NONE, unless I spilled oil filling it. Heck the cars made more stink. Hey, if yours does not bother you, and its obviously not as bad in your situation as mine, great for you. But at least you don't deny they make fumes.
Magdave
New member
Fumes are one thing. I agree I have always had some minor smells on my Hondas. Drips on the floor is totally different. :yikes: nojoke
This just came across the news
Follow this link
US safety agency probes Can-Am motorcycle fires. You can view it at: http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268743/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=7KUQanCl
Follow this link
US safety agency probes Can-Am motorcycle fires. You can view it at: http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_268743/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=7KUQanCl
Magdave
New member
:clap:I would be more than glad to have them buy mine back and deliver a 2014 in exchange. :thumbup:
