Summer is back - yes boiling gas again :(

[Magdave]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for sharing your Spyder RT heat experiences.
I stopped gas boiling in tank of 2013 Spyder RT-S SE5 in summer 2013 riding in 112+deg heat.
1. A richer fuel ratio, (Len at Pitbull Powersports).
2. # 9 NGK Iridium sparkplugs (cooler running plugs); Baja Ron plug wires.
3. Wrapped both exhaust pipes.
4. Added reflective heat shield over top of exhaust pipe wraps.
5. Installed sticky wrap heat shield all over gas tank.
6. Cat bypass pipes installed (cat removed).
7. Removed air resonator box on left air intake (opened up air flow under left side panels).
8. Removed gas charcoal canister, extended gas tank vent hose with gas fuel filter routed up front,(opened up air flow under right side panels).
9. Installed Lava 1200 deg reflective heat shield in front & underneath Brimbo brake master cylinder.
10. Extended reflective heat shield about 6" out right side radiator exit to block heat from right foot area.
Note: gas cap temps dropped to 116 deg; gas in tank dropped to 128 deg.
I have since put ceramic heat mods on a 2011 RT; two 2013 RT's with success.
Hope this helps some RT owners.
(Jan 29th 2014 I bought a 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6;
Cat removed; 2" stainless steel exhaust bypass pipe built/installed.
I put ceramic reflective heat shield wrap on exhaust pipe to keep heat off engine cases.
The 1330 in line triple has awesome torque/power smooth shifting).
Enjoy your Spyder rydes!!!

View attachment 87515View attachment 87516
Jim

Gas boils at those temps:shocked: I am not going to spend $40k on 2 bikes to solve it when BRP should do it. Why get a '14 if you solved the issues? We have all read the possible help to cool it but it will never get cool enough with out proper ventilation in the engine bay. The jury is out on the '14s lets see what 90 to 100deg weather does to them. I bet they will boil too. The ONLY solution is double walled properly insulated tanks from the OEM along with improved venting from the OEM. It is their problem. We all have tried things that helped but never eliminated it.

 

[jwulf74]

My main complaints with the fumes are twofold. The first is while ryding. The second is after a ryde.

I aim to fix the first by routing the event line to the rear left side. That should keep it out of my helmet while ryding.

The second is much harder and will maybe try a few more things, but the best one so far has been filling the tank with cold gas right before going home.

Air box removal helps, canisterectomy may help as it sits so close to the engine. I may wrap the pipes, but that will be about it. Those plus the cold fresh gas I hope will take care of 95% of it. I can live with that.

 

[spyderyderjim]

Stop complaining. This info is for Spyder RT riders that want to stop 2013 RT heat

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

Gas boils at those temps:shocked: I am not going to spend $40k on 2 bikes to solve it when BRP should do it. Why get a '14 if you solved the issues? We have all read the possible help to cool it but it will never get cool enough with out proper ventilation in the engine bay. The jury is out on the '14s lets see what 90 to 100deg weather does to them. I bet they will boil too. The ONLY solution is double walled properly insulated tanks from the OEM along with improved venting from the OEM. It is their problem. We all have tried things that helped but never eliminated it.

 

[den1953]

Just my 2 cents worth

There is nothing like a HEATED discussion to liven things up. Seriously, boiling gasoline would worry the heck out of me!!

 

[jcthorne]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

Sorry but it is not solved. I have done what you have. wrapped pipes and wrapped cat bypass. Canisterectomy with vent routed to rear, insulated tank, insulated master cylinder and removed air intake resonator. Things are MUCH better. I never have the fumes in my helmet sitting in traffic. But the garage does fill with gas fumes every day when I get home from work. 90+ deg, stop n go traffic still yields major gas fumes. Not to mention the low fuel economy from all this gas vaporizing to the air.

I am pretty much convinced that the engine bay temps will never stay below the boiling point of gas. The only solution would be to reroute the exhaust under the bike or a double wall insualted tank.

 

[Magdave]

You don't have a clue about 2014 Spyder RT's!!! I have been riding in 95-98 deg heat, & engine temp stays at 4 bars!!
NO, you are wrong; there will not be any heating/boiling gas problems on 2014 RT with the dual radiators up front, exhaust pipe under RT!!!!
I bought the 2014 Spyder RT-S SE6 because I wanted the 1330cc in-line triple motor awesome torque, smooth shifting trans.
It is really none of your business if I bought a 2014 RT, I buy what I want to ryde!! ( I have 34,000 miles on 3 Spyder RT's)
I rode all last summer in 112-116 deg Arizona hot weather 2013 RT with no gas boiling/heating problems after my heat reflective mods!!
If you want to sit on your butt, complain, & bad mouth BRP, then you reap what you sow.
This hands on info I share with all the other RT riders that want a solution to RT heat problems so they can enjoy riding all summer.
Jim

I guess you ain't been around here. I did all you did and more. Is it better? A little, but it still does it. Simple fact of the matter is your own referenced temp readings indicate you did not solve the gas boiling problem. Do you know what the boiling point of gas is? Now lets mention there are 2 different types of heat here , comfort and danger. Every motorcycle suffers from some type of comfort heat. Sitting over an engine heat rises etc. You can have 6 radiators but FI engines(or any for that matter) will run at 200+ deg. with a 180deg thermostat. It has to able to fire the Cat up. Nothing can be done to change that. Conventional motorcycles have more or open headroom between the engine and tank. Although sometimes they will have the same issue with the tank sitting over the 200+ deg. engine most of the time the ventilation is adequate to abate the boiling. You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.:dontknow:

 

[sddinnh]

You are delusional if you think the 2014 engine bay is any cooler than previous years. Only difference is the engine is moved forward from the tank ( for the most part) and exhaust is re routed. Both can help obviously but sitting in traffic the tank WILL heat up just like every other Spyder on the road. The 1330 does not run any cooler than the 990. I am betting by the end of the summer when '14 owners start really checking tank temps we will see they too have gas boil. As much? Probably not. enough to overwhelm the EVAP canister? That is the question.:dontknow:

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion :shocked:

 

[Magdave]

As a 1330 owner, I somewhat agree. I think that like the two cylinder bikes, the record of the 3 cylinder bikes will be spotty as far as gas boiling goes. Some of us that live in rural areas in the cooler parts of the country may have no problems at all, while others in hotter, more congested parts of the country may have more problems. I rarely sit in traffic and it has not been over 70 here so far this year so I expect that I will not see the problem.

As an engineer, I also think that anything you do to these bikes as a fix, short of re-designing them, is going to be spotty as far as results go. If you were just over the edge of the boiling point and you removed the cat, then that might have fixed your boiling problem, where someone in a hotter area of the country needs to do more. And thats what the factory did with the 2014's, they redesigned them to move air better. If this is going to be sufficient or not is yet to be seen.

Just my humble opinion :shocked:

:agree: Time will tell but the new air movement has to do with coolant not around the engine bay. There are variables as you mentioned. If you avoid traffic lights and cruise you will (as I do ) have less if any boiling. My boiling occurs in extended stop and go traffic so I try to avoid the circumstances that cause it ( plus it makes for a better ride:thumbup. I think even the most hard core shade tree mechanics have tried to solve this issue and some say they have done it. Maybe so for a certain set of variables but not for all IMHO.

 

[spyderyderjim]

Sorry but it is not solved. I have done what you have. wrapped pipes and wrapped cat bypass. Canisterectomy with vent routed to rear, insulated tank, insulated master cylinder and removed air intake resonator. Things are MUCH better. I never have the fumes in my helmet sitting in traffic. But the garage does fill with gas fumes every day when I get home from work. 90+ deg, stop n go traffic still yields major gas fumes. Not to mention the low fuel economy from all this gas vaporizing to the air.

I am pretty much convinced that the engine bay temps will never stay below the boiling point of gas. The only solution would be to reroute the exhaust under the bike or a double wall insualted tank.

http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.
The heat mods I listed solved the gas boiling problem in my 2013 RT last summer.
The exhaust pipe Thermotec heat shield is what finally stopped gas from boiling in the RT tank.
I used a laser temp gun to check gas tank temps, etc after each heat mod.
I did not have gas fume smell in garage after a ride, just a few drips once in awhile.
PMK is right, until gas stops boiling in tanks, you will get fumes out of gas tank vent hose.
Sounds like you did every heat mod.
I am just sharing what heat mods worked for my 2013 RT.
The 2013 RT-S was a blast to ride because the stiffer frame handled corner speed, at twice posted speed!!
My 2014 RT handles corners about 5 mph faster than 2013 RT.
Enjoy your rydes!
Jim

 

[Y Rider]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems. ray:

 

[jcthorne]

http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3

This shield over top of exhaust pipes heat wrap lowered exhaust pipe heat enough to stop gas from boiling in tank on my 2013 RT.
This is what Lamont used on his 2013 Spyder ST.
I also put a heat reflecting shield in front of gas tank extended up to reflect heat away from gas tank.

Jim

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

 

[jcthorne]

I have a 2011 RT Limited and have had the gas smell problem since I first got it. Each time after a long ride I park the Spyder outside for an hour until the bike cools off enough before putting it in the garage. This has become the normal procedure for me and has worked well to keep my garage from being overwhelmed with gas fumes. I even tried the "canisterectomy" with no success. The problem is design. If the gas tank gets too hot and the gas reaches its boiling point the vapors are forced out the vent. Only cure is to keep the gas tank cool. The only possible solution for this problem that I have seen so far is the catalytic converter bypass system Lamont is putting together. I am just waiting to see the results from others before making the purchase. I am hoping his cat bypass will be the fix for the boiling gas and even the hot right foot problems. ray:

Quit waiting. Does not 'solve' the problem. I even heat wrapped the bypass. It does help but its one small part of the solution to get heat out of the bike. It will not change the heat on your foot at all as that is from the radiator.

 

[finless]

Isn't the exhaust pipe double walled anyway?

Bob

 

[spyderyderjim]

How many and what size of these shields did you add to your exhaust and where did you put them? What heat reflecting shield did you add to your tank? I already have the thermotec reflective adhesive backed insulation applied to the whole tank.

I used the 6" wide x 3 foot long on #1 exhaust pipe; and same on # 2 exhaust pipe.
I used the thermal stainless steel ties to hold it on over heat wrap pipes.
Did you notice less heat under panels after you removed all the stock air filter & installed the JT type air filter?
I noticed the adjustable side vents helped pull out some motor heat out of top vents when riding.
Jim

 

[spyderyderjim]

This may sound like a totally stupid idea. The heat reflection products can work, but often will heat soak over time, not all but some.

Never seen the earlier Spyders underside, but could it be viable to secure a simple ceramic tile along the exhaust, giving the air gap between the tank and exhaust system?

The other alternative could be a rolled stainless or titanium heat shield on the exhaust.

The thermotec heat blankets make sense. Keep the heat inside something hot and away from something cool.

To adhere a heat reflective material against a cool item may still allow heat transfer.

PK

You are correct the reflective heat shield will cause a little heat soak.
I am using this Lava heat shield that is not reflective like the aluminum coated; on gas tanks now.

http://paceperformance.com/i-513683...esive-withstands-1200-degree-heat-direct.html

I am using a ceramic reflective heat shield armor that withstands 1200 deg heat, so is put directly on exhaust pipes; seems better than pipe wrap.
I posted photos of a 2011 RT; & my 2014 RT ceramic shield under engine area to keep heat off.

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/exhaust-heat-shield-insulation/heatshield-armor.

The Thermotec heat blankets have 3/8" stand offs so air flow is under shield also.
Like I mentioned this heat mod is what finally stopped gas boiling in my 2013 RT last summer.
Thanks for your input.
(You just need to get some Elka shocks from Len at Pitbull, so you can rail the corners on your 2014 RT)!!

Jim

 

[crazyspyder]

raunchy gas smell here 2

GGGRRRR GREAT temps here are up and gas smell ...like a stinky old goat is BACK! :banghead: and the dealer tech has told me many times , ''it's normal ''. seriously thinking of getting a bottom scum feeding dweller to
get his scumbag expert opinion. I can handle bbq-ing my foot ...but.. roasting my family because my spyder caught fire in my garage is unacceptable! :shocked:
so frustrated I CAN"T TYPE ANYMORE..
2012 RT Se5

 

[flaggerphil]

I'm lucky in that I've never had a boiling gas problem or an excessive heat problem with my 2011. Is there heat coming from the engine? Of course, but nothing that uncomfortable and far less than I've had with air cooled Harleys in the past. About the same amount I had with my '07
Yamaha V-Star 1300T and my '08 Suzuki Boulevard M-50 (neither of which I own anymore...though my sister owns the Suzuki now).

I will sometimes have a gas smell when I come back from long, hot rides. I've had the same smell with other motorcycles I've owned over the years. I just leave the garage door open for 15 minutes or so after I get home and the problem is gone.

I'm not saying others don't have problems...I've not had them with my ride.

 

[spyderyderjim]

Photos 2013 RT heat shield wrap/pipe shield

Jim, any photos to "show" how you accomplished installing these items?


2013 RT #2 exhaust right side Pipe Shield http://thermotec.shptron.com/p/pipe-shield-3
2013 RT sticky wrap in front & underneath brake master cylinder
2013 RT sticky wrap gas tank up to frame blocking heat from #2 cylinder
2013 RT Pipe Shield left side #1 exhaust pipe; this shield over top of wrapped exhaust pipes is what finally stopped gas boiling in tank!!
I now use Lava wrap (instead of sticky shield) because it is not as reflective & has higher heat rating of 1200 deg.
http://paceperformance.com/i-513683...esive-withstands-1200-degree-heat-direct.html

The 2011 RT photo of ceramic exhaust pipe heat shield is what I now use instead of pipe wrap, on friends RT's.
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/automotive/exhaust-heat-shield-insulation/heatshield-armor

Jim

 

[MikeinGA]

I have stopped the boiling gas by using exhaust wrap
http://www.motorsports247.com/product/dei/titanium-exhaust-wrap-2x50

and used heat shield on the gas tank http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004PILLZG/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The heat shield is non-flammable unlike the foam product that BRP uses that is flammable. I removed the flammable BRP product and used the Thermo-Tec product. That's IMHO.


Mike

 

[spyderyderjim]

SpyderJim, just to clarify, and correct me if wrong, the sequence of your photos, in in the order of the description in your post.

PK

Yes, left to right with bottom photo of 2011 ceramic heat shield I now use.
The first photo shows the backside of the pipe heat shield that goes over top of exhaust pipe wrap.
Jim