Initial Maintenance and Work

[Rednaxs60]

I just finished a 3600 miles trip with some days pushing 100 degrees. I used 87 octane and could not tell any difference. Spyder ran fine and got 34.4 mpg on the trip.

Thanks for the info. Have been browsing the web to get more information on fuel octane ratings for detuned engines, not too definitive, but will keep looking. Did find a forum thread - should have bookmarked it, regarding the US fuel regulations in that apparently all vehicles are supposed to be able to use 87 octane fuel. This did not imply that a higher grade of fuel could not be recommended.

The M2 shocks are finally on the way. Now that the various industries are starting up in full force, imagine that Marcus at M2 Shocks is busier than a bat's ass - don't know where I learned this one. Since the shocks will be here soon, paying attention to how the Spyder operates on the straight, sweeping curves, and hard corners so that I can give a good review/comparison between OEM and the M2 shocks.

I have noticed that in a tight corner such as on a cloverleaf, the OEM shock is forced hard over and there is little if any rebound in the corner. The shock rebound once I exit the corner is either abrupt - exiting the corner and going in a straight line quickly, or the rebound is more gentle when I allow the Spyder to drift a bit going into the new lane. Hoping the new shock(s) will mitigate this feeling.

More to follow.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Have been researching tire availability for my 2014 RT LE - post #76. Phoned the local Spyder dealer, just over an hour up island regarding price and install. Cost of Kenda tires is approximately $130.00 CDN plus tax. For the dealer to install it's shop time and rate at $120.00 CDN/HR - needs at least an hour I was told. Would have thought that the dealer would have a set rate to install tires they sell. Will be going to a few local tire shops to determine if I can get the tires I have found available in Canada and what the install cost would be.

Looking at front tires (all in CDN):

Kumho Solus KH16 - 155/60 R15 - ~$89.00 ea plus tax
Continental Procontact - 155/60 R15 - ~$108.00 plus tax
Federal 595 EVO - 165/55 R15 - ~$158.00 plus tax

The 155/60 R15 are almost identical to the 165/60 R15. The tire width is slightly smaller by 0.4 inches, not much change in tire revolutions. The estimated speed change is in the positive, going from an increase of 0.2 MPH at a reading of 20MPH - so 20.2 MPH to 0.8 MPH change at a reading of 90 MPH - 90.8 MPH.

Contacted Counteract Beads in Guelph, Ontario for the recommended bead weight on install. 2 ounces per front tire, and three ounces for rear. Probably put a 1/4 ounce more in each.

Contacted a car tire dealer that is closer. This dealer has the Kumho Solar KH16 tire in stock because these are used on the smart cars. Found one forum thread regarding this tire and the person was pleased with the tires performance. They may be able to install, but would have to take in. $302.00 CDN installed - forgot to ask if taxes in. Mentioned I would use Counteract Beads and she was familiar with these as well, I would have to supply - have on hand. May do this sooner than later - the tires that are on my Spyder are original from 2014. Tires show no cracking on the sidewalls, but tire compounds harden over time regardless of what the tire looks like. The lady I was talking to mentioned that the rear tire may be a different issue. This company also provides a lot of two wheel motorcyclists with car tires for their motorcycles.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Short update. M2 shocks on the way - Marcus was up to his eyeballs in work, being delivered to Blaine WA on Tuesday, should have for the weekend. Going to put a set of Kumho Solus KH16 tires on the Spyder. This will be done on Wednesday. Reason for the Kumho tire (used on the Smart Cars) is availability, in stock - price is good as well, $302.00 CDN installed, balanced if I wanted, out the door, taxes in. Going to specify 20 lbs inflation. Will be using CounterAct beads to balance, 2 ounces per, going to use 2 1/4 ounces - similar to Dyna beads. Have a set of Centramatic balance rings as well. Will be able to road test the tires before shock install. Be good to see what the difference is before the new shocks are installed. Change out shocks by the Monday following receipt. Set up the Spyder suspension, then tackle the alignment.

Have some additional reading to do regarding the rear shock. Had Marcus at M2 send a 700 lb/in rear spring as well. Have read a thread regarding rear shock upgrade and it was mentioned that an 800 lb/in spring wasn't overkill. If I do decide to change the rear spring before new rear shock install, will consider replacing OEM shock spring with the 500 lb/in spring coming with the M2 rear shock.

 

[Mikey]

:roflblack:WOW! I just read threw this post, I need a decaf and a nap!! You are just the Eveready Bunny, god love you. You must have that thing ready for the Indy 500. When do you find time to ride it? Good job and if you need something to do and want to refurbish a 2012, I've got just the sled for you!!!:cheers: Happy trails!!! WoW!!!

 

[Rednaxs60]

:roflblack:WOW! I just read threw this post, I need a decaf and a nap!! You are just the Eveready Bunny, god love you. You must have that thing ready for the Indy 500. When do you find time to ride it? Good job and if you need something to do and want to refurbish a 2012, I've got just the sled for you!!!:cheers: Happy trails!!! WoW!!!

Thanks. We use it for most of our outings when the weather is good as it is, and I use it instead of the car. My '85 Goldwing is feeling neglected. Only take it off the road when I have everything I need and understand what I am going to do. Makes the work go faster. Doing as much at the beginning of ownership, instead of at the back end closer to when I may sell so I can enjoy what is/has been done before someone else. Only 7000 Kms in 4 months, slowing down.

Short update on the shock issue. Read over the threads/work on front/rear shocks done by spacetiger in 2013. Relevant information, detailed and well presented. Bottom line is that a stiffer spring rate is required front/rear to accommodate the overall riding profile. This work was done on a 2012 RT and I expect my 2014 RT LE to be heavier because of the engine and possibly other changes since then. Recommendation after reading through spacetiger's thread again, new springs front up to 500 lb/in, and rear 700/800 lb/in minimum. Have a 700 lb/in spring coming with my M2 Shocks, will install before new shock goes in. Will wait and ride the Spyder to determine if fron t spring rate at 250 lb/in needs to be upgraded.

h0grider thread in 2019 on "RT Limited OEM Rear Shock - Making it adjustable" was a good read as well. Innovative way of upgrading the rear shock to improve ride quality and performance.

Lots of info out there.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Maintenance update. Handlebar Lidlocs came in today. 5 minute install and done. Trialed, will work nicely.

Front tires off. Called tire shop. The Kumho Solus KH16 are non-directional, good to know. Did ask about a 165/55 R15 tire, Federal 595 EVO, not avialable, but the Kenda Kanines are in the warehouse in Vancouver, BC. Pricing for the Kenda Kanine is $90.00 CDN more so going with the Kumho tires.

The M2 shocks have arrived in Blaine WA, should have notice these are in Victoria tomorrow or Thursday. This will give me a day or two to trial the Kumho tires before changing out the front shocks. Like to do one change at a time, assess the change, do next.

 

[bigbadbrucie]

..... The M2 shocks have arrived in Blaine WA, should have notice these are in Victoria tomorrow or Thursday.....

I hope that you are correct on when should arrive in Victoria. Since Covid began, a shipment from the U.S. sat in Canadian Customs for 30 long days before it was released. It was a sheepskin for my RT.

 

[Rednaxs60]

I hope that you are correct on when should arrive in Victoria. Since Covid began, a shipment from the U.S. sat in Canadian Customs for 30 long days before it was released. It was a sheepskin for my RT.

I use a cross border broker that is a Mom and Pop shop with head office in Victoria at the Victoria airport. Comes into its warehouse in Blaine WA, trucked to Victoria location generally the next day. Email sent to pickup, take payment docs to broker, get paperwork from them, go to customs at the airport, pay whatever is deemed for the item, sometimes it's have a nice day, back to broker, pay for the transport - $18.00 for the first 5 lbs, pick up package. Works well. I do a comparison anytime I order from the US - almost always free shipping in the US. Sometimes better than other means, won't use UPS if I can help it - I find DHL from Europe better and faster.

 

[bigbadbrucie]

Thanks for that....I did not realize that the brokers were able to jelp during the border shutdown. That’s great. I use a small mom and pop mail drop right at the border, but they were shut down because of covid.

Again, free shipping and I just hop across and pick up and then walk through customs.

 

[Rednaxs60]

The company is called Seawings Express. I don't go near the border. Only a 10 minute drive from the house to the airport where the company is located. Only downside is it is one way, from the US to Canada. Be nice if it were the other way round as well. Very nice people to deal with.

 

[Rednaxs60]

New front tires today - Kumho Solus KH16. Nice tread profile. Had the tire shop use standard lead weights. 1 1/2 ounce for one and 1 ounce for the other. Installed wheels without the Centramatic wheel balancers and did road test. Had a bit too much vibration for my liking. Came back to the garage, wheels off - Centramatic wheel balancers installed, wheels on and road test over the same route. Much better, but still not 100%. Will leave for a week and if not satisfied will go back to tire shop and have the CounterAct beads installed - 2 ounces per tire. Owner was good about this issue and stated that if I wasn't satisfied, bring back and the beads can be put in.

Checked the tracking as well. Put the left wheel on the centre line and let go of the bars. Tracked in a straight line, but did eventually fall of the centre line. The Spyder did not dart to one side or the other. Begs the question - do I want to straighten the bars? Will chew on this for a bit. Shocks should be here tomorrow, do shocks then think about alignment.

Have a mechanical noise coming from under the front seat, in the vicinity of the air compressor. Almost like it is continuously on. Can hear the system when it expels air. Will investigate, peruse the two forums for information. Possibility of an air leak. Have seen a couple of threads regarding this, but didn't pay a lot of attention to these. Will do more checking of install when I do rear shock.

 

[Mikey]

Depending on what you are getting for a rear shock you may not need that rear air bag at all! It all depends on how he set the shock up, and what you have for a spring on it!

 

[Rednaxs60]

Depending on what you are getting for a rear shock you may not need that rear air bag at all! It all depends on how he set the shock up, and what you have for a spring on it!

Agree. The M2 rear shock will have the 500 lb/in spring installed. I asked for an 800 lb/in spring to be included in the package, but we settled on a 700 lb/in spring. My perusing/research of the threads indicates probably better going with the 700 lb/in spring from the get go. h0grider and spacetiger threads have convinced me of this. h0grider uses a 600 lb/in spring and finds it to be very good, and minimizes air spring use. spacetiger settled on an 800 lb/in spring - older bike, probably less weight but same principle. Understand the need to take into account the ride settings for the ACS. Front shocks have 250 lb/in springs installed, may need to tweak this as well. See how everything comes out in the wash so to speak.

Did a course in shock and vibration in 1985 from our Navy's Naval Engineering Test Establishment. The fellow who facilitated this course, name eludes me - called him Dr X, equated everything to how the ship "bounces" around the ocean, and the possibility of explosive events. Don't remember the math, minutiae around this issue, but do know/remember the importance of it. A lot of the vibration isolation was not just to protect the equipment, but to minimize the noise signature.

Back to the comment, going to monitor the system, and tweak as required. Keeps the retired mind active and engaged.

Cheers

 

[Rednaxs60]

Picked up the M2 shocks this afternoon. Marcus called today to make sure I got them - good follow up. Have installed the front shocks, had to remove the front trunk, not enough room to get at the upper bolt on the one side.

Have put some 7000 Kms on since I bought the Spyder 4 months ago. Time for an oil change, doing at the same time.

Have the rear shock ready to go in. Installed the 700 lb/in spring, considerably more robust than the 500 lb/in spring. Have looked at the install, not a lot of room in there. Will be able to use a crows foot 15 mm wrench on one side of the top bolt, The left side is a straight in to the bolt. Getting it off may be the easy part. Have drained the air from the air shock, easy enough. The rebound adjustment is at the top and with the limited room won't be adjusting it too often. Adjusting the preload will be challenging enough. Going to take a page from h0grider, settled on 0.625" preload with a 600 lb/in spring, mine is a 700 lb/in spring - hopefully I will be close to what he came up with - be a good comparison.

More to follow. This is one of the last few items I need to address. Remaining list: new rear tire - need a torque wrench that will go into the 160 ft-lb range - mine has a max of 150 ft-lbs, trailer hitch, trailer hitch wiring, should be just about it.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Finished up this short work period today and have done a road test. The story:

Finished up the shock install, and oil/filter change.

Left the engine to drain overnight. Took out the engine drain plug to check the o-rings and was not expecting more oil in the engine sump - wrong, still oil in the sump. Note to self and others - to get as much oil out of the engine need to remove the engine side drain plug. The lower o-ring on the drain plug was torn so needed new one. Replaced the crush/sealing washer, and both o-rings. Will be putting the used oil into containers tomorrow. Will be interesting to see how much oil came out. Used Lucas full synthetic 10W40.

Took the rear shock off, lower bolt was easy, upper bolt required some finesse. Had a 15 mm crow foot wrench on the nut that is located in behind the air compressor. Had Sonya assist, and left the nut up against the shock mount for later install. Wouldn't want to take the nut out and try to put it back in later. Didn't hurt to leave it there for the duration.

The rear M2 shock is longer than the OEM by about 1.125 inches. Makes a difference sometimes. I also installed the 700 lb/in spring. The 525 lb/in rear spring is 6" unloaded length, the 700 lb/in rear spring is 6 7/8 inch unloaded length.

Free travel - Spyder in air no preload 9.5 inches. Percentages: 25% = 2.375"/30% = 2.85"/35% = 3.325 Right now I'm using approximately 2.25" or approximately 24% of rear suspension travel. I can theoretically use up to 3.325" when two up riding. Will have someone take a measurement of the two of us on the Spyder. Be interesting to see what it is.

After rear shock install, did some measurements for centre of rear wheel axle to the left saddlebag. Full travel no preload 9.5 inches. Spyder on ground no rider no preload 8 inches. Spyder + rider + 24 lb no preload 7.25 inches. Used just over 25% of shock travel for ride height. Rear shock was set at 20 clicks for rebound damping, has about 40 clicks - lots of adjustment. Minimal preload used, almost none.

Adjusted the front shocks for preload and rebound damping. These shocks have some 60 clicks for adjustment. Set on 31 clicks both sides and the shock compresses and returns to set height with no overshoot. Set the front height with preload adjuster(s). Have the spring compressed to 18.5 cm. Thinking of reducing this to 18.25 cm then road test - scraping is not your friend.

Spyder back together and time for road test. Set the ACS at lowest/softest setting. Was aware of some people having ACS trouble codes after a shock or suspension tuning/upgrade. Was conscious of this for the entire test ride. No trouble codes.

Noticed right off that the ride was a lot firmer. The rear of the Spyder did not settle when starting off necessitating the air compressor to compensate, or when shifting at a higher RPM. The front end did not dive as it did with the OEM shocks. The front end would dive even on a gradual sweeper, and it could be seen. With the new M2 front shocks, I had to watch closely to see if the front suspension was compressing, but was hard pressed to see the A-frames compressing. There was front suspension movement as I could feel the centrifugal force in a corner/turn, but it has now been minimized significantly. Thought I might need to upgrade the front shock springs to a stiffer spring rate, but maybe not.

Took the same route that I did when I had the new tires installed. Lots of twisties, roundabouts, and turning at corners. Significant improvement in the ride and handling. The handlebars "feel" more centred. Did the same alignment test on the same section of the ride. 70 KPH, let hands off the bars and the Spyder tracked quite straight. Did fall off after a bit, but the road will do this, did not feel like it was a Spyder issue.

Returned home and scraped the front, first time it has done this. Might have to increase the front preload to raise the front end a bit more.

Mentioned I had set the ACS on the lowest setting. The air system had been purged of all air before rear shock removal/install. On return home, checked the air system pressure and there was none. I think the system is trying to work, but the new rear shock is longer and the spring sufficiently stiffer that there is no need for the air system to adjust to compensate for ride height. The 700 lb/in spring is more than sufficient to carry the weight of the Spyder and myself - didn't take the extra 24 lbs I used for shock travel heights. If this works out well two up, will be considering disabling the ACS system. Better to have the main shock do the work and be sized properly. Will check the amount of air in the air system after the first two up ride. I'm thinking it may be negligible.

The rebound damping on the shocks was spot on, but being such, the ride can be too firm. Have adjusted the front shocks so that there is a small overshoot on rebound, but shock settles with one small overshoot. Softened up the rear as well. More trials to do.

Picked the shocks up yesterday afternoon and started on the install. Marcus called to follow up. We had a short discussion and I mentioned I would get back to him. Called him a short while later to get a quick insight into the rebound damping settings. Marcus phoned again today asking about my progress. Mentioned I was working on the rear shock and would get back to him. He asked for pictures, have take a few - will post when I get a moment. Going to provide him with my thoughts on the M2 shock performance. I got the impression he has not done an M2 shock install on an RT LE.

I had to take a round file to the front shock mounting bushings to have the OEM bolt fit - small inconvenience, but one that should be noted.

Instructions that came with the shocks are quite good.

Have pics and will post when I get them annotated and such.

Cheers

 

[Peter Aawen]

.....Mentioned I had set the ACS on the lowest setting. The air system had been purged of all air before rear shock removal/install. On return home, checked the air system pressure and there was none. I think the system is trying to work, but the new rear shock is longer and the spring sufficiently stiffer that there is no need for the air system to adjust to compensate for ride height. The 700 lb/in spring is more than sufficient to carry the weight of the Spyder and myself - didn't take the extra 24 lbs I used for shock travel heights. If this works out well two up, will be considering disabling the ACS system. Better to have the main shock do the work and be sized properly. Will check the amount of air in the air system after the first two up ride. I'm thinking it may be negligible.....

The ACS is probably not trying to work yet... You might find that the ACS won't actually work at all &/or add/bleed any air until you put some air into the air bag via the schraeder valve - once the bag has been emptied/bled down to zero pressure, those of us with a manual switch still on the dash generally get a 'Manual' warning & the ACS won't work/we'll get no pressure change at all until there has been some air added manually; it usually only needs about 10 psi or so. :thumbup:

That said, you really should keep something like 5-10 psi in the bag at all times anyway, even if the ACS & air bag never actually comes into play any more. Leaving the bag empty is highly likely to cause it to stretch & kink enough as the suspension articulates that it'll be destroyed over time; while running just enough air in there to keep it inflated means that the bag will retain its integrity instead of doing the stretching & kinking thing. hyea:

But aside from that, it really sounds like you've got it close to sorted! Bewdy! :2thumbs:

 

[Mikey]

:agree: That's what the guy's at Lamonster told me also with the Elka's, that if I used there shock in the rear to just leave 10-15 lbs in the bag to keep from pinching!

 

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks for the comments. I had a thought that there should be some air in the ACS system, and I'm going to read the service manual, and put some air in the system. I would think there is a minimum air pressure maintained by the system.

I will be checking the ride height with the wooden blocks as recommended in the service manual. Get some additional numbers.

Have to look at the numbers I have and determine exactly what I have done.

I was thinking of the difference in the ride and performance of the Spyder now. One issue I had with the OEM shocks was that when going into a corner and not hitting it just right, that when the weight transfer went to the outside of the corner, and stayed there until exiting the corner - the Spyder would tend to initially go straight instead of turn. This would necessitate my having to lean into the corner to counteract this and use more steering than I thought necessary - a bit of a safety concern. Not an isolated incident, but one that always irked me. This happened at varying times, speed was not always a factor - had this happen doing the speed limit, riding solo or two up.

What I think was happening is that the front shocks would start to resist the Spyder weight transfer going into the corner/curve - as a shock should, then the turning motion/force would overcome the shock resistance and the weight of the Spyder and load would abruptly go to the outside of the turn - shock fully compressed and not rebounding. This abrupt change in the Spyder orientation would have the Spyder want to go in the direction of the weight change and that is straight ahead, not around the corner/curve as required, ergo weight counterbalance and more steering required quickly. Sounds good to me.

This and info in my other post was key to my decision to pursue a shock upgrade. The BajaRon sway bar is a good upgrade. Installed new tires, working well, but not something I would put in the performance category, in the ride quality category, yes. The shocks and sway bar are definitely a ride quality and performance enhancer.

I have done this upgrade at up front, and now will be able to enjoy the Spyder that much more for however long I own it. Better to do this now than later, just before I sell it.

For what it's worth, and JMHO, if you're sitting on the fence regarding a shock upgrade, or have to ask if it's worth it - you're already half way there to a decision. Personally, go for it, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Mikey]

:agree:

 

[Rednaxs60]

Update on new shock install. Two up ride today, mostly city and rural streets with some highway riding. Mentioned to Sonya that her priority today was to pay attention to the ride quality and cornering. Good news, Sonya mentioned that the lean of the Spyder when taking curves/corners, and turning onto another road from a stop was significantly reduced. The overall ride quality was good as well. Got a bit choppy on one of the side roads, but she admitted that the road was not the best. Overall impression was that the new shocks did a much better job than the OEM shocks I took off.

Have to adjust the front shocks for correct preload and ride height - scraped front end again. Ground clearance front and under engine is to be 110 mm or 4.3". I will be using a structure point for the front clearance, specifically where the OEM service manual recommends putting the jack stands when doing an alignment. Will check the front of the front trunk, but this is plastic and not as definitive as part of the chassis. Did some adjustments after arriving home - ride height significantly increased. Started Spyder and the , increased the front shock preload to 3 cm on each shock, new noise from front of Spyder, thinking it's the DPS unit and ride height too high. Reduced ride height and noise went away. No error codes indicated.

Measured the ride height with Sonya and I on the Spyder. Using the same point of reference, the loaded sag was 6.5". This is in line with what I was hoping for. Unloaded non-preload rear travel extension was 9.5". This sag represents approximately 32% of travel. Need to do more research into what these numbers indicate, but thinking all is well. Maybe a small increase in rear preload.

Refresh on the numbers:

9.5" - Spyder rear off floor, no shock preload
8.0" - Spyder on floor, no additional load(s), no shock preload
7.25" - Spyder, rider, and 24Lb small load, no shock preload
6.5" - Spyder, rider, pillion, no shock preload.

Can also consider a rear shock spring rate of 600 lb/in. This would change the loading numbers, but would probably require the use of the ACS system to provide minimal air support for solo riding and slightly more for two up riding and towing a trailer. There is always a sweet spot regarding spring rates. May change the 700 lb/in rear spring for the originally installed 525 lb/in spring and determine the difference in ride quality and performance and what the sag numbers are. This will be a good down the road project.

Put some 15 psi in the air shock before ride. Checked air pressure on return home - 0 psi. Will look at the system in the OEM service manual. Best case is all is well and system is working as it should considering the new shock install. If system is functioning properly, may have to consider turning the ACS system off and isolating it enough to maintain approximately 10 to 15 psi air pressure in the air shock to prevent damage to it. Will do some number crunching tomorrow with approximately 15 PSI in the air shock.

Still considering a front shock spring change to 300/350 lb/in depending on final front shock preload. Will know more after tomorrow and final ride height adjustment - front/rear. Looks like the front preload will be approximately 2 cm.

Front spring is 8" in length and 250 lb/in. Lots of room for a longer spring at a higher spring rate. Will be discussing with Marcus at M2 shocks. Have found an 8" - 300/350 lb/in 1.88 ID spring that would be acceptable. I'm of the opinion that M2 is using data derived from an F3 Spyder. These rides are similar, but centre of gravity being higher for the RT, and a slight weight difference coupled with this changes the RT dynamics. My primary objective with a greater spring rate is to minimize preload, the fact that a greater spring rate would be beneficial cornering, on curves and turning onto a road from a stop is all good. I will also be towing a trailer.

Cheers