Thermal event

[Pennyrick]

Jumping to conclusions about the cause/causes of this incident is fruitless. There could be many possible reasons, and even more complicating factors or components. The extent of the damage makes reconstructing the exact cause impossible. The initial location of the fire on the right side points to the evap system componenets, but it also points to fuel lines and electrical wiring. As Bob pointed out, three things are needed for fire...fuel, air, and an ignition source. The fuel/air mixture must also be within the flammable range...neither too high nor too low. Given the lack of direct evidence, the cause of this one will, sadly, never likely be known. There is no sense in pointing fingers at the systems or components...or the Spyder's bad habits. Hopefully BRP will use this as a catalyst to take a closer look at some of these systems and reported problems, but expecting a quick, firm answer or unwisely modifying a Spyder as a knee-jerk response, is not adviseable. All any of us can do for now is have sympathy for Ann, be thankful that she was not injured, and wonder what happened.

Wise words that help extinguish a flammable topic.

 

[Magdave]

Jumping to conclusions about the cause/causes of this incident is fruitless. There could be many possible reasons, and even more complicating factors or components. The extent of the damage makes reconstructing the exact cause impossible. The initial location of the fire on the right side points to the evap system componenets, but it also points to fuel lines and electrical wiring. As Bob pointed out, three things are needed for fire...fuel, air, and an ignition source. The fuel/air mixture must also be within the flammable range...neither too high nor too low. Given the lack of direct evidence, the cause of this one will, sadly, never likely be known. There is no sense in pointing fingers at the systems or components...or the Spyder's bad habits. Hopefully BRP will use this as a catalyst to take a closer look at some of these systems and reported problems, but expecting a quick, firm answer or unwisely modifying a Spyder as a knee-jerk response, is not adviseable. All any of us can do for now is have sympathy for Ann, be thankful that she was not injured, and wonder what happened.

I hear ya but looking at / fixing a boiling gas tank issue is not a knee jerk reaction. You know it has been reported many times on this forum. Wondering about what happened will not make any of us with 2013's safer. As I said it is just a theory and I bet it is a good one. :thumbup: Something for BRP to think about you and I are not going to fix it but as you have seen enough after market cooling mods are out there if there wasn't a need no one would buy them.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: :thumbup:
Now we just have to wait and see what her next ride is gonna be...

 

[shelbydave]

Obviously the BRP system is not limiting all the fuel vapors it should. Does your car ever smell like gas after a long drive?

Yup. It's 30 years old, and still the most fun car in my stable...

BTW... other than the first time I filled my Spyder, I don't smell gas fumes after any ride. That tells me the system functions properly.

Jumping to conclusions about the cause/causes of this incident is fruitless. There could be many possible reasons, and even more complicating factors or components. The extent of the damage makes reconstructing the exact cause impossible. The initial location of the fire on the right side points to the evap system componenets, but it also points to fuel lines and electrical wiring. As Bob pointed out, three things are needed for fire...fuel, air, and an ignition source. The fuel/air mixture must also be within the flammable range...neither too high nor too low. Given the lack of direct evidence, the cause of this one will, sadly, never likely be known. There is no sense in pointing fingers at the systems or components...or the Spyder's bad habits. Hopefully BRP will use this as a catalyst to take a closer look at some of these systems and reported problems, but expecting a quick, firm answer or unwisely modifying a Spyder as a knee-jerk response, is not adviseable. All any of us can do for now is have sympathy for Ann, be thankful that she was not injured, and wonder what happened.

:agree::agree:

 

[napper39]

i just read this ann like every one else im so glad your ok,and hope you poost the out come and how you are treated about geting a new spyder,you deserve the best treatment by b r p,and hope that hapens soon.im on your side in ever respect and if theres anything i can do to help just let me know.my phone no 7852141657,call or email me if i can do any thing,[email protected].

 

[TuckMiddle]

Ann, I join the others in saying how glad we are that you reacted quickly and did the right things, preventing personal injury comes first.
My 2011RTSM5 started dripping fuel and stinking up the garage at 8000 miles. It got so bad I had to park it outside for a couple hours after each ride. Even left the garage doors open sometimes. Installed a big fan I had from the ceiling and ran it 24 hours to force the smell out. Dealer had a bit of a hassle to get the tech folks to send another canister and purge valve, but they finally did. I had already run the vent line to the rear wheel area to get the dripping away from the pipes, Cat and muffler. The change didn't help, stunk like crazy with big area when it dripped until the line emptied. Dealer fought and tech people called me acting like this was the first they ever had and the nice lady finally agreed to send new stuff again.I never fill it up, I have had enough old bikes to know to leave some room in the tank. So, when the new canister and valve didn't do anything, out they came. Immediately, the stench stopped, droppings stopped and all seemed well. I had also wrapped the pipes, put insulation over the tank, etc. at 34000, the bike is perfect as far as the fuel problem goes and never drips at all. I check it after every shutdown. The canisterectomy did it for me, it hasn't worked for all, but most, per the posts here. I still carry a pretty good sized fire bottle in the frunk. Not sure it would help in a situation like yours, but it makes me feel a little less paranoid. Someone remarked way back in this post that the 2013 fire problems are nothing like the earlier RT. I'm not so sure that is a fact. The excessive heat in the 13 may result in more fire problems, but I'd place a pretty heavy bet the fuel venting is a basic problem area in many RTs and maybe others?....
Tuck

 

[shelbydave]

Ann, I join the others in saying how glad we are that you reacted quickly and did the right things, preventing personal injury comes first.
My 2011RTSM5 started dripping fuel and stinking up the garage at 8000 miles. It got so bad I had to park it outside for a couple hours after each ride. Even left the garage doors open sometimes. Installed a big fan I had from the ceiling and ran it 24 hours to force the smell out. Dealer had a bit of a hassle to get the tech folks to send another canister and purge valve, but they finally did. I had already run the vent line to the rear wheel area to get the dripping away from the pipes, Cat and muffler. The change didn't help, stunk like crazy with big area when it dripped until the line emptied. Dealer fought and tech people called me acting like this was the first they ever had and the nice lady finally agreed to send new stuff again.I never fill it up, I have had enough old bikes to know to leave some room in the tank. So, when the new canister and valve didn't do anything, out they came. Immediately, the stench stopped, droppings stopped and all seemed well. I had also wrapped the pipes, put insulation over the tank, etc. at 34000, the bike is perfect as far as the fuel problem goes and never drips at all. I check it after every shutdown. The canisterectomy did it for me, it hasn't worked for all, but most, per the posts here. I still carry a pretty good sized fire bottle in the frunk. Not sure it would help in a situation like yours, but it makes me feel a little less paranoid. Someone remarked way back in this post that the 2013 fire problems are nothing like the earlier RT. I'm not so sure that is a fact. The excessive heat in the 13 may result in more fire problems, but I'd place a pretty heavy bet the fuel venting is a basic problem area in many RTs and maybe others?....
Tuck

I find this post interesting... As a guy that likes to tear things apart to see what is going on... My 2012 RT is still totally stock - no canister removal, and I don't have the gas smell. Did they just change the canister, or did they change out all the evap system parts?

 

[SilverCruiser]

I think you need to change it to SpyderAngel, because there was definitely one watching over you. So glad you are OK:bowdown:

SpyderAngel sounds perfectray:

 

[Tango]

I test rode 2 BRP demo's at a local dealer near me. One had no smell at all. The other reeked of gas! :yikes: I mentioned to the tech handling the intro to the rides that I smell gas. His reply, "they all do"! nojoke :banghead::banghead: I had planned to purchase an RT next month. Waiting on news of the 2014's. My wife has voiced her opinion of serious concerns with the fires. Remember, we test rode the one in Johnstown that "perished" in fire. And I was there to ride it again. It was still smoldering when we got there. :cus: :spyder2: Tom :trike:

 

[Magdave]

On the 2013 RT's the EVAP hose goes through the right side plate into a dimple that has a plastic stop. Only 1/2 inch of hose actually sticks out of the panel but it has another ~1/2 inch of plastic collar inside the dimple it sticks through. If that hose should ever get pushed up inside it will exhaust inside what for all intents is the engine compartment vs. the outside air. If it did you may look there and think that collar IS the hose. If you are getting gas smell that hose should be the first place to check. Luckily for me I have not had the smell...yet and I do check the hose from time to time by touching it with the tip of my finger and giving it a sniff. So far nothing but my sweet finger smell :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

SpyderAngel sounds perfectray:

That sure does sound like the perfect name for her! :thumbup:

 

[Pogo]

it suits me alot better than charcoal black

Once you've had black, there's no going back.

Sorry that this has happened to you Ann. I hope that you come out of it with the same sense of humour you have shown here.

The bike can be replaced, but you are a one-off.

Pogo.

2008 GS. So far fireproof.ray:

 

[TuckMiddle]

Fires and venting, etc

I find this post interesting... As a guy that likes to tear things apart to see what is going on... My 2012 RT is still totally stock - no canister removal, and I don't have the gas smell. Did they just change the canister, or did they change out all the evap system parts?

Both things both times. The second time, they changed tha canister first, thinking maybe it got "infected" with gas in the lines, but it still was doing everything. Then they changed to the second replacement purge valve and it still was screwed up. So, out came both and everything is fine at 34,000 + miles, not one drop or one "smelly" incident. Some bikes do it and some don't. And it starts at various times. There still is a lot of heat, but it's almost manageable. I did screw up and wore my shoes to the grocery store, and burned the inside of my right ankle when it touched the plastic. I have one pair of "Triumph" boots and they have melted into the same plastic ridge on the right side. There ios a little bulge by the ankle and it hits the plastic, while other boots don't.
Even if I didn't have fumes and puddles, I'd run the 1/4 inch vent line that come out under the seat all the way back to the left side of the wheel. That keep any fluids away from the CAT, pipes and muffler. All are obvious sources of a lot of heat.

Tuck

 

[shadow0401]

After reading all the posts about Ann's fire, glad she is fine and kept her wits and was able to
get the spyder off the road and away from it before it went up in flames.

This is just my thought. Someone said they were going to start carrying a fire extinguisher, that's
fine. But how effective is an extinguisher going to be on a spyder? It's not a two wheeler where
everything is exposed and you could knock a fire down. You have an enclosed engine and you are not going to get to the source of the fire without removing tupperware.

One solution would be to have an on board fire suppressant system like they have in race cars,
but then that would add $$$$ to the cost of the spyder

Again, glad Ann is fine and I hope BRP resolves the problem.

 

[shelbydave]

After reading all the posts about Ann's fire, glad she is fine and kept her wits and was able to
get the spyder off the road and away from it before it went up in flames.

This is just my thought. Someone said they were going to start carrying a fire extinguisher, that's
fine. But how effective is an extinguisher going to be on a spyder? It's not a two wheeler where
everything is exposed and you could knock a fire down. You have an enclosed engine and you are not going to get to the source of the fire without removing tupperware.

One solution would be to have an on board fire suppressant system like they have in race cars,
but then that would add $$$$ to the cost of the spyder

Again, glad Ann is fine and I hope BRP resolves the problem.

I thought the same thing... Only chance may be a dry chemical that you could spray directly into the side vents...? :dontknow:

 

[JCSMOKE]

Just heard about this last night and had to wait until this morning to read the thread. Ann, glad you are ok and sorry for the troubles you have had to deal with. You know you have a bunch of people pulling for you and the post by BRP looks promising. I do have to say, I wonder what you will do, is it worth it to try again? Will you go a year back? Will you hop a year forward? What color? With Flames or without? Will you put a Spyder decal on the new one to show you took one down? Will you park it on a grassy knoll and take 3 pictures of it? Will you install and auto eject for all your bags? So many questions, so much to think about.
Mike
JCSMOKE

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

JUST A THOUGHT

Just throwin this out there ' maybe BRP should consider CERAMIC coated pipes from the factory....Yes it's not cheap , however on the scale BRP would be doing this I think it would be a cost effective solution.....From what I've read about some CERAMIC coatings, they can lower the outside temps quite a bit .....Just a thought.....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

by doing it with all of their bikes; it'd give them a break on the pricing... :thumbup:
But there's more to this, than just underbody heat...

 

[Magdave]

by doing it with all of their bikes; it'd give them a break on the pricing... :thumbup:
But there's more to this, than just underbody heat...

With the big scoop up front you would think the could route just a little air to the engine area wouldn't you?

 

[shelbydave]

Just throwin this out there ' maybe BRP should consider CERAMIC coated pipes from the factory....Yes it's not cheap , however on the scale BRP would be doing this I think it would be a cost effective solution.....From what I've read about some CERAMIC coatings, they can lower the outside temps quite a bit .....Just a thought.....Mike :thumbup:

For me, the jury is still out on coating / wrapping the pipes. Yes it will lower heat outside the pipe, but it also keeps heat IN the pipes. I wonder what could happen to the life span of the CAT...

Now, wrapping the pipes may afford them the ability to move the CAT further back, and out from the tupperware... maybe in the muffler housing...