Thermal event

[Dan McNally]

One solution would be to have an on board fire suppressant system like they have in race cars,
but then that would add $$$$ to the cost of the spyder.

I'd happily pay it to save my Spyder, and possibly my life or my home. If it was designed, properly, it would extinguish a fire but not damage anything that the fire didn't. You'd probably have to give up some storage space, but it would be worth that, too.

 

[SPYDERFUZZ]

Fire

`
Ann, have you picked out what color:spyder2: you are going to get. Red is pretty, I got a white :spyder2: and really like it when I go to dress it up it is like having a blank canvas.

I wanted to ask you, I saw pictures of the your :spyder2: all lite up and brought to mind, several years ago there was a fire at the Country Club cart sheds and several golf carts burned to the ground. The fire was so hot my cart looked like your:spyder2: every thing melted except for the heads on my irons. The fire department put water on my cart as it was blazing and the PING factory said it was like the old blacksmith, you know they heat the horse shoes and then stick them in water to cool it off real quick. Are you still with me? I said all that to say this I'll bet a lot of the tools you had in the trunk are not hurt. Maybe someone can explain this better then I just did anyway glad you are OK and send us a picture of your new:spyder2:. Doug I

 

[slyder]

Ditto on if happens to me!

Thank God she had time to escape safely! Sure there will be more to come of this.

Spyderann01 was returning from Spyders in the redwoods, when her spyder burst into flames! :yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:
She is ok, but her short bus is on it's way to the big spyderweb in the sky! She is currently standing on the highway, as the firefighters do their thing. She said it is a small puddle of stuff about a foot tall. She is 12 miles north of Bakersfield. As you can imagine, she is NOT HAPPY!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
I bet I had 500 bucks worth of tools in it. I am just glad she is OK, and unhurt. ray: Pictures to follow..........

 

[Bob Denman]

High deductibles... :gaah:
We take them to save on premium...
But they still can bite us on the :cus: when something happens...
(I also carry $1000 deductibles on my HO...)

 

[billrob71]

Just throwin this out there ' maybe BRP should consider CERAMIC coated pipes from the factory....Yes it's not cheap , however on the scale BRP would be doing this I think it would be a cost effective solution.....From what I've read about some CERAMIC coatings, they can lower the outside temps quite a bit .....Just a thought.....Mike :thumbup:

+1

This is my plan for my exhaust this winter for the whole exhaust, keeps the heat in the pipe and out the back.

 

[exwinger]

vapor smell

So glad you are ok , it could have been a lot worse .Your location sure seemed to be in your favor at the time and you obviously were a quick thinker. As an ex fireman ,One thing I have to say though and this is to all owners , if there's a fire ...get away and let it burn. There is absolutely nothing in the bike that is worth trying to save and risking your life over. I've seen too many tank explosions and they aren't pretty , hot burning fuel just isn't compatible with flesh. High deductible or not , just let it go and get away as far as possible. With that being said , I'm going to be a lot more forceful with finding the cause of my fumes .Mine are so bad that I have to leave the bike outside the garage until it cools down and when riding in very slow traffic on a hot day the smell becomes overpowering , riders beside me can smell it......and before anyone says it........I DO NOT overfill. Just reading about this and seeing the results makes me wonder when mine is going up in smoke. Mine is a 2011 Rt and has had the problem since day one .

 

[NancysToy]

So glad you are ok , it could have been a lot worse .Your location sure seemed to be in your favor at the time and you obviously were a quick thinker. As an ex fireman ,One thing I have to say though and this is to all owners , if there's a fire ...get away and let it burn. There is absolutely nothing in the bike that is worth trying to save and risking your life over. I've seen too many tank explosions and they aren't pretty , hot burning fuel just isn't compatible with flesh. High deductible or not , just let it go and get away as far as possible. With that being said , I'm going to be a lot more forceful with finding the cause of my fumes .Mine are so bad that I have to leave the bike outside the garage until it cools down and when riding in very slow traffic on a hot day the smell becomes overpowering , riders beside me can smell it......and before anyone says it........I DO NOT overfill. Just reading about this and seeing the results makes me wonder when mine is going up in smoke. Mine is a 2011 Rt and has had the problem since day one .

Have your purge valve and tank fuel pump/vent assembly checked. More owners with this problem need to insist that it be cured. Accepting "It is normal" for an answer is not safe. Reporting it to the NHTSA may be appropriatre if the dealer won't address it. It does not occur in all Spyders!

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree:
I wonder if these parts are also "outsourced", by BRP...
It appears that they need to get all of their suppliers in one room, and read them the riot act! :gaah:

 

[PrairieSpyder]

So if I had to guess what caused the problem I would say the evap canister. I really do not think it was heat related or heat soak related. It was quite cool and I had not gotten any heat codes since before I left Las Vegas. I will report this to NHTSA and to BRP and I will let you all know what they say.

I am thinking about changing my user name from SpyderAnn01 to CrispySpyder or maybe FlamingSpyder. What do you think?

I'm glad you're OK, and your stuff and your sense of humor have also survived!

How about "SpyderFlambe"?

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: "Smoky"? :shocked:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

Boiling gasoline

I purchased my RT in May, annd I love the machine. I don't post very much, but I've read nearly all the posts, and I've learned a lot. Thankyou to all who have posted before me.

I've been reading about the concerns some have about boiling gasoline on their roadsters. So, I started Googling, and using my old college chemistry books. I am not a chemist; I am not an engineer; I am just a retired guy with a run-of-the-mill education. But this is what I learned:

Gasoline is a mixture of many compounds. Therefore the report of a boiling point is given as a range, not a precise number. Water boils precisely at 212 f at sea level. Gasoline boils at about 350 f. The range is actually about 325 f to 375 f. The ignition point for gasoline is about 495 f.

The roadsters Rotax engine runs at about 185 f to 200 f.

So, if you were to open the gas cap, at say a gas station, and the gas really was boiling, you couldn't stick your finger in the tank without getting a serious burn. I've stuck my finger in the tank lots of times because I don't trust the gas gauge. I've never gotten burned or experienced anything hot.

I serously doubt if the smell of gas that some experience is due to the gas actually boiling. Claiming that gas is boiling may be the reason some service tecnicians don't take the claim seriously.

Rather, I think (and remember, I am not an engineer) that the smell of gas is due to fumes from the evap canister, or from malfunctioning purge valves, or from defective hoses.

Odors from evap canisters can be caused by overfilling the tank, hitting big bumps causing gas to splash into the canister, or what-have-you. It can take two or three weeks for the odor of gas from an evap canister to dissipate.

So, if you have this issue, and it lasts for a long time, get the purge valve checked, get the hoses checked.

But most importantly, don't top off the gas when filling up.

Again, I am not a chemist; I am not an engineer; I am not a mechanic. I am just a retired guy who uses Google.

Dan

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Dan on my 2010rt I had gas boil out of the tank after fueling on a very hot day. This was prior to the new gas caps. On my 2013 I experienced the gas cap hissing as I opened it then when I went to add fuel it the cold gas hitting the hot gas caused it to splash out of the tank. That said I do not believe that my fire was caused by boiling gas in the tank.

 

[flamingobabe]

Dan on my 2010rt I had gas boil out of the tank after fueling on a very hot day. This was prior to the new gas caps. On my 2013 I experienced the gas cap hissing as I opened it then when I went to add fuel it the cold gas hitting the hot gas caused it to splash out of the tank. That said I do not believe that my fire was caused by boiling gas in the tank.

SpyderAnn...or is it FireBall Ann....I have had the same problem of releasing gas cap slowly...hissing...waiting...then gas boiling and spitting out at me...stopped after the flash from Pit Bull on the ECM...to richen up the fuel because I was running real lean

 

[SpyderAnn01]

SpyderAnn...or is it FireBall Ann....I have had the same problem of releasing gas cap slowly...hissing...waiting...then gas boiling and spitting out at me...stopped after the flash from Pit Bull on the ECM...to richen up the fuel because I was running real lean

FireBall Annie has a ring to it!

 

[Farmbanker]

SpyderAnn, I can't resist....I envision your next Spyder with a flaming Betty Boop on the frunk. No, I have not been drinking...yet.

 

[Dan_Ashley]

My theory hits the dust.

I guess my research is limited. Oh well.

 

[Bob Denman]

No worries Dan; I've been so wrong, so often in here, that I go home to let the Missus tell me the same thing, and it actually feels better!
Glad to see that you've jumped in! :clap: :2thumbs:

 

[ARtraveler]

I am so sorry to hear of your :spyder2: catching fire and being totaled. I am very thankful that you were able to get off and safe before bad things happened.

I do appreciate the fact that BRP has publicly become involved in your situation and also recommend not saying to much until the issue is solved between you and BRP.

Will withhold further comments here on SL.

 

[NancysToy]

Dan, in my opinion what generally happens is that the heat, which is concentrated at the bottom of the tank, boils the gas locally. The bubbles form just like they do in a pan on the stove before it begins to boil in earnest...what we call a rolling boil. We hear the sound of those bubbles, but there may be little heat, and no heated vapor at the top of the tank in those early stages. When gas is added to the tank the gas can vaporize instantly, and blow back the vapors. These are real phenomena, but they do not happen all the time or to all Spyders. BTW, the engine water temperature may only be 185-225, but the metalof the engine is hotter and the exhaust pipes near the head can reach 800-1200 degrees F.

 

[Magdave]

I purchased my RT in May, annd I love the machine. I don't post very much, but I've read nearly all the posts, and I've learned a lot. Thankyou to all who have posted before me.

I've been reading about the concerns some have about boiling gasoline on their roadsters. So, I started Googling, and using my old college chemistry books. I am not a chemist; I am not an engineer; I am just a retired guy with a run-of-the-mill education. But this is what I learned:

Gasoline is a mixture of many compounds. Therefore the report of a boiling point is given as a range, not a precise number. Water boils precisely at 212 f at sea level. Gasoline boils at about 350 f. The range is actually about 325 f to 375 f. The ignition point for gasoline is about 495 f.

The roadsters Rotax engine runs at about 185 f to 200 f.

So, if you were to open the gas cap, at say a gas station, and the gas really was boiling, you couldn't stick your finger in the tank without getting a serious burn. I've stuck my finger in the tank lots of times because I don't trust the gas gauge. I've never gotten burned or experienced anything hot.

I serously doubt if the smell of gas that some experience is due to the gas actually boiling. Claiming that gas is boiling may be the reason some service tecnicians don't take the claim seriously.

Rather, I think (and remember, I am not an engineer) that the smell of gas is due to fumes from the evap canister, or from malfunctioning purge valves, or from defective hoses.

Odors from evap canisters can be caused by overfilling the tank, hitting big bumps causing gas to splash into the canister, or what-have-you. It can take two or three weeks for the odor of gas from an evap canister to dissipate.

So, if you have this issue, and it lasts for a long time, get the purge valve checked, get the hoses checked.

But most importantly, don't top off the gas when filling up.

Again, I am not a chemist; I am not an engineer; I am not a mechanic. I am just a retired guy who uses Google.

Dan

Not quite correct in reality it is between 100-400 degrees and that depends. Any fluid ( like antifreeze for example) under pressure in a closed system will boil at a higher temperature. The Spyder tank is vented via the purge valve to the evap canister to prevent high pressure in it so the actual boiling temp will be lower I will take a WAG and say below 200 deg.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-boiling-point-d_936.html

What temp the engine "runs" at is irrelevant the exhaust pipes are what temperature? The Cat is what temp? An engine running temp is measured by the coolant not the engine casing itself then adding the additional heat produced during exhaust under the Tupperware and it is easy to see how on a hot day sitting in traffic it could boil the gas. There is no positive ventilation under the Tupperware when the bike is sitting in fact very little when it is moving with the non adjustable deflectors installed. They should be putting the adjustable ones on at the factory and telling owners in hot climates to adjust them to provide maximum engine bay ventilation through the honeycomb vents near them. That is something I think BRP needs to address .