Passing it on- Dynamic Power Steering (DPS) Update

[Roaddog2]

Good!

Most sane people would be happy their Spyder is FIXED. But there's just no pleasing some people I guess.

Do us all a favor--- sell your Spyder and go to the dark side like RH did --- we'll all be much happier.nojoke

Who's RH man your one ignorant :cus:rd :doorag:

 

[RoadHammer]

When my dps was fixed they told me that ( i forget the technical terms) but basically one thing wasn't communicating properly with the dps unit after the latest updates. So after changing the dps unit and reinstalling the update(s) the 2 parts communicated with each other properly and I would no longer have an issue.

I remember some other poster basically saying the same about there dps issue, that 2 parts werent communicating with each other properly and after replacing with a newer dps unit the 2 parts worked properly. If someone can track that post the proper technical terms can be extracted from it.

That's basically it in easy english:doorag:

 

[Firefly]

Yup - I think anyone would be happy that their Spyder is fixed. That's great:2thumbs: Is mine fixed or is it not? Who told you it is? I'm dying to know cuz nobody told me it's FIXED.

Do yourself a favor and quit telling me that my Spyder is fixed. You are wasting your breath. Only people who are gonna tell me it is fixed is BRP.

You got it babe----:chill:

Sorry to hear your Spyder isn't 'fixed'. Better have a BRP tech fly back in and test the steering for you since you can't tell if it's fixed or not. This might require them to actually start it and go for a ride. :dontknow:

Good luck!:firstplace:

 

[wyliec]

Yup-- you're correct. *MY* opinion is that *I* would be thrilled if BRP flew a technician in to fix *MY* Spyder and they put new DPS parts in. *I* would consider *MY* Spyder FIXED if it no longer has the problem.





Not sure how everyone else defines whether something is fixed, but one would think a good clue would be that the previous problem is GONE. :shocked:

Of course I like to use common sense and logic. Others may or may not.

According to an e-mail I received from Carlo a few days ago, BRP is still working on the steering issue(s). He (Carlo) said "I am confident that a permanent solution for this issue will be reached in the near future." I don't know about you or all those others that use common sense and logic, but to me what Carlo said is BRP hasn't come up with a permanent fix yet. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[RoadHammer]

According to an e-mail I received from Carlo a few days ago, BRP is still working on the steering issue(s). He (Carlo) said "I am confident that a permanent solution for this issue will be reached in the near future." I don't know about you or all those others that use common sense and logic, but to me what Carlo said is BRP hasn't come up with a permanent fix yet. Of course that's just my opinion.

Read my post b4 this one.
I have heard this explanation twice now so I'll take there word for it (for now)and see how it goes this spring............................. but if the problem still exists I will certainly not be quiet about it.

 

[Smylinacha]

Babe?:yikes: Scuse me?

You are very lucky you are not standing next to me right now because I would have slapped you.

You got it babe----:chill:

Sorry to hear your Spyder isn't 'fixed'. Better have a BRP tech fly back in and test the steering for you since you can't tell if it's fixed or not. This might require them to actually start it and go for a ride. :dontknow:

Good luck!:firstplace:

 

[RoadHammer]

Yo firefly. Is suggest you grab a copy of the huffington post and crawl back into your watercave and close the lid.... don't even open it to peak out for awhile.
How you can say that to someone elses wife and think you can get away with it is beyond me. I guess that's the liberal in you..

 

[Roaddog2]

Keep it up fool........you're starting to cross the line.......:lecturef_smilie:

keep on talkin'.......

Great now the people that make Charmin are gone to get laid off :gaah:

 

[txknight67]

And where does it all stem from? I think I have a bit of an idea. I was looking at Diesel Jettas the other day, mine is 12 years old and getting tired. The amazing thing is that the price of a new one is only $2000.00 more than I paid 12 years ago. In those 12 years there has been a lot of innovations and improvements. The car is now miles above mine in terms of sophistication, torque, horsepower and amenities. To get the same level of automobile back in '98 I would have had to pay somewhere around $10,000 more.

How does a company continually improve a product, all the while keeping workers happy with good pay, benefits and pension plans, while keeping the product priced low enough to sell, yet keep overhead low enough to make a profit? They start cutting corners. All the manufacturers have been doing it and now it is catching up. The main problem is that in order to lure customers into the show room, manufacturers by their own design each year have put more and more 'stuff' into cars and trucks to where they are now more gadgetry than substance - because that is what many of us wanted and what many of us were told we needed in order to be happy and safe. And we fell for it. Gizmo's and electronic doo-dads have taken the place of solid parts, longevity and reliability. Todays mid stream car has to mimic what what Mercedes and BMW have to offer without the high price tag. In the past the expensive marques were expensive for a reason. We have been lulled into the belief that every year we need more, more, more. And we keep getting more, more, more. But somewhere we must pay for all the more, more more. Now we are starting to pay for it. Now we are seeing failures at an alarming rate. These failures are not particular to one company anymore. Toyota has a big gas pedal recall, so does Ford, so does Peugeot - because in this era of more, more, more, everyone is using the same components! And the shame of it is that in other places where innovation takes shape these same 'made for a price' components and electronics systems are taken off the shelf used in an entirely different application - and then trouble starts rearing it's ugly head, again, and again. We blame BRP - but they are only giving us what we want. The trouble is they are using what is available, at the price they need to pay, in order to make a profit on what we are willing to pay.

End of sermon.


Rub

:agree: My brother told me once he reads these new car reviews and is amazed at the amount of "answers" to questions that were never asked are on these cars. In other words, gadgets that he never "noticed" he needed and still doesn't "notice" he needs.

 

[Peoriafirefighter]

Do you suppose (GM) Government Motor is doing something right.

I think I'll let the Transportation Secretary, Ray Lahood know about what is going on with BRP. He belongs to the gym I work out in and I see him often. Yes, I do think GM is on the right track that's why I have 2 Corvettes.

I just hope BRP learns from Toyota's mistake of keeping quiet and not addressing the issues.

Good Luck buddy...:helpsmilie:

 

[Smylinacha]

Oh don't worry about him. He crossed the line w/ me, yes. But only to get you guys going and then he's gonna whine about it. He's got his head so far up his butt he could chew his food twice.

 

[txknight67]

Once again, if any of you that are reporting problems have not reported them to the NHTSA, please do so. There is more pressure with higher numbers. If you have reported before, but had a repeated incident, report that one, too. Also, I urge you to get your Spyder to a dealer if you have not done so. Whatever anyone thinks of BRP, remember that they cannot troubleshoot and figure out the problems if they don't have the broken Spyders in hand.

Again, :agree:. I thought we had my problem licked with the GPS change out. System was working flawlessly, then two days ago (about 800 miles after the GPS change out) it started slowly going downhill. Dealer called BRP the minute he got off the phone with me and called me back about 10 minutes later. BRP is recommending a DPS change out. Dealer has put part on order. When it first started on Wednesday, it was only 2 or 3 times at highway speeds and was so slight as to make one wonder if it was really acting up. Yesterday it was sticking every time I turned just left of center at highway speeds and then once as I was straightening up after I turned into a parking lot. However, today system was acting up extremely intermittently again and only at highway speeds.

Now, for those of you bashing BRP let me tell you, that kind of failure is a total PITA to trouble shoot. You can't fix/trouble shoot an issue that ain't there at that moment! Trust me, I have spent many a cold night or blazing hot afternoon on a flight line chasing an issue that the pilots have seen multiple times but we as mechanics can only get to duplicate about every 5th time we run the system, if we're lucky.

Another thing to consider, a few times in my 20+ years of troubleshooting/fixing aircraft (and automobiles for that matter) I have run across instances where one component was "taking out" another component and vice versa. In other words, change out component A because trouble shooting led one to that component, it was bad, but the reason it was bad was because a bad component B damaged it. Now component B shows up as being bad finally so it is changed, but before it was changed it damaged component A again. Now component A fails, change component A, but before it was changed it had damaged component B again....wash, rinse, repeat. Finally we wound up having to change both component A and B and the same time. Viola, the system finally works.

Is that what is going on here? I don't know, but I am willing to give BRP the benefit of the doubt. Yes their statements are crafted by lawyers, but then what major corporations aren't?

And for those of you holding Toyota up as the paragon of how a corporation should respond to an issue....Toyota's issue has been know about since 1999, and was reported by no less than State Farm in 2002, but nothing was done until just now?! I think BRP has done more in the last year to try and figure this issue out than Toyota did in those 10 years.

OK, enough of my ranting.

 

[RoadHammer]

Again, :agree:. I thought we had my problem licked with the GPS change out. System was working flawlessly, then two days ago (about 800 miles after the GPS change out) it started slowly going downhill. Dealer called BRP the minute he got off the phone with me and called me back about 10 minutes later. BRP is recommending a DPS change out. Dealer has put part on order. When it first started on Wednesday, it was only 2 or 3 times at highway speeds and was so slight as to make one wonder if it was really acting up. Yesterday it was sticking every time I turned just left of center at highway speeds and then once as I was straightening up after I turned into a parking lot. However, today system was acting up extremely intermittently again and only at highway speeds.

Now, for those of you bashing BRP let me tell you, that kind of failure is a total PITA to trouble shoot. You can't fix/trouble shoot an issue that ain't there at that moment! Trust me, I have spent many a cold night or blazing hot afternoon on a flight line chasing an issue that the pilots have seen multiple times but we as mechanics can only get to duplicate about every 5th time we run the system, if we're lucky.

Another thing to consider, a few times in my 20+ years of troubleshooting/fixing aircraft (and automobiles for that matter) I have run across instances where one component was "taking out" another component and vice versa. In other words, change out component A because trouble shooting led one to that component, it was bad, but the reason it was bad was because a bad component B damaged it. Now component B shows up as being bad finally so it is changed, but before it was changed it damaged component A again. Now component A fails, change component A, but before it was changed it had damaged component B again....wash, rinse, repeat. Finally we wound up having to change both component A and B and the same time. Viola, the system finally works.

Is that what is going on here? I don't know, but I am willing to give BRP the benefit of the doubt. Yes their statements are crafted by lawyers, but then what major corporations aren't?

And for those of you holding Toyota up as the paragon of how a corporation should respond to an issue....Toyota's issue has been know about since 1999, and was reported by no less than State Farm in 2002, but nothing was done until just now?! I think BRP has done more in the last year to try and figure this issue out than Toyota did in those 10 years.

OK, enough of my ranting.

I agree with you on component A an B. Thats how brp described it to me
( in technical terms that i cant remember)

 

[txknight67]

Mine was 'steering lock' - just like many of you have had.

So is your Spyder still having problems?

I was under the impression that yours was no longer having problems?

I consider mine fixed. Do I really need to know exactly which part or software update it was? No - I personally don't. They did the GPS switch and then the software updates. It could be that either fixed the problem, or the combination - either way I consider it 'fixed'. If it acts up again I would assume they would put a new DPS in. Troubleshooting such technical things can be very time-consuming and swapping entire systems and parts is pretty much the industry standard now.

Do you really need to know exactly which change they made actually 'fixed' it? That's entirely your prerogative, but I don't think you'll ever get the 'solid' answer that you're looking for. I think you're setting yourself up for continued disappointment as the answer may very well be 'they don't know'.

It seems that you'll never trust your Spyder again - and perhaps with good reason - and if that's the case I would probably sell it and move on. The excess worry and concern wouldn't be worth it to me.

If they have replaced the DPS, GPS and done all the software updates and you're not having problems - then you're essentially back to 'factory new' and I *personally* would consider it fixed.

I hope you can find what will make you 'happy' , but I don't see any outcome that will satisfy your requirements. If they came out and said it was a bad flux capacitor from Guam that was used in some DPS units - I'm guessing you wouldn't believe them at this point.

I think your personal quest to know exactly what was wrong will never be fulfilled and thus will just continue to give you license to complain - which I guess is fine if that's what you enjoy--- but it gets kind of old out here for some of us.

Peace!

(BTW - no--I don't miss him one bit - never felt better as an American right now.):thumbup:

:clap::clap::clap: That is applause. Very well put. In the aviation world there is what is know as FM maintenance. We don't know exactly what fixed it, it must have been a :cus: miracle. Someone intervened and helped us poor frazzled mechanics out.

And trust me, that is twice as scary in the aviation world. Things go to :cus: you can't pull over to the side of the road and park it. Yet it happens and those same systems worked good for a long time.

 

[NancysToy]

.....Now, for those of you bashing BRP let me tell you, that kind of failure is a total PITA to trouble shoot. You can't fix/trouble shoot an issue that ain't there at that moment! Trust me, I have spent many a cold night or blazing hot afternoon on a flight line chasing an issue that the pilots have seen multiple times but we as mechanics can only get to duplicate about every 5th time we run the system, if we're lucky.

Another thing to consider, a few times in my 20+ years of troubleshooting/fixing aircraft (and automobiles for that matter) I have run across instances where one component was "taking out" another component and vice versa. In other words, change out component A because trouble shooting led one to that component, it was bad, but the reason it was bad was because a bad component B damaged it. Now component B shows up as being bad finally so it is changed, but before it was changed it damaged component A again. Now component A fails, change component A, but before it was changed it had damaged component B again....wash, rinse, repeat. Finally we wound up having to change both component A and B and the same time. Viola, the system finally works.

Is that what is going on here? I don't know, but I am willing to give BRP the benefit of the doubt......

:agree: Intermittent problems can drive a mechanic (oops, they call them technicians nowadays) nuts, as can those A-B-C tail-chasers. Throw in not just one, but several computer processors, a CANBus system for communications, numerous electrical connectors, varying weather and road conditions, multiple parts sources, and maybe a few mechanical ills, and it seems insurmountable. I don't wonder that BRP is saying they need more time. I am an optimist. I think they will find an answer...and hopefully share it with us, straight-forwardly and openly. They made one mistake jumping to conclusions with the recall programming update, that resolved some complaints, but exposed other problems or causes. It is sad, but understandable, that some can't wait for a final solution that is concrete. I am very sorry to see that happening. These things get more difficult on both ends as they continue.

 

[Tom in NM]

:agree: Intermittent problems can drive a mechanic (oops, they call them technicians nowadays) nuts, as can those A-B-C tail-chasers. Throw in not just one, but several computer processors, a CANBus system for communications, numerous electrical connectors, varying weather and road conditions, multiple parts sources, and maybe a few mechanical ills, and it seems insurmountable. I don't wonder that BRP is saying they need more time. I am an optimist. I think they will find an answer...and hopefully share it with us, straight-forwardly and openly. They made one mistake jumping to conclusions with the recall programming update, that resolved some complaints, but exposed other problems or causes. It is sad, but understandable, that some can't wait for a final solution that is concrete. I am very sorry to see that happening. These things get more difficult on both ends as they continue.

:agree:
With the number of sensors and their sensitivity to electrical/RF interference, like the HID Ballast problem in the Shop Talk Forum, there is a lot of sensitive diagnostics that need to be done. Besides the possible issues of "incompatible" components, there is also the variable of a batch of bad components and cases where settings are mis-calibrated. It will be interesting to see what the final root problem and resulting fix is (or fixes are).

Count me in the group that has had the problem, gone through the steps to get it solved and is very satisfied with how my Spyder operates.

Tom

 

[Firefly]

I apologize to all for letting my emotions get the best of me out here.

I should not have entered into such conversations out here or taken it to such a personal level. I just tire of chronic whining and complaining. I'll just have to learn to let such things pass by.

Sorry for my part in stoking any flames out here and making things worse.

Oil and water just don't mix.

I'm not going to dignify certain comments by responding to them.

I sincerely hope those with continued steering problems get them fixed, ride them and let us know how the fix is working. Rubber to the road may be the only way we'll know for sure.

Peace!

 

[dave01]

After getting my old Spyder back from the latest DPS change-out, I realized that I didnt have power assist steering much at all. It was so smooth that I had some second thoughts about selling her. I will say that I only put 2 miles on it, back to the dealer, where I met up with Rshrimp, to make the sale, but in that real short period, it was a real joy to ryde. I have my fingers crossed that the solution will come soon for anyone that experienced the failures like I had.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Oil

I apologize to all for letting my emotions get the best of me out here.

I should not have entered into such conversations out here or taken it to such a personal level. I just tire of chronic whining and complaining. I'll just have to learn to let such things pass by.

Sorry for my part in stoking any flames out here and making things worse.

Oil and water just don't mix.

I'm not going to dignify certain comments by responding to them.

I sincerely hope those with continued steering problems get them fixed, ride them and let us know how the fix is working. Rubber to the road may be the only way we'll know for sure.

Peace!

But oil always rises to the top!!

 

[Smylinacha]

I also apologize for any rudeness I have caused on this thread. I was really working hard at keeping my threads calm but I was getting very aggravated towards the end.

Here's my thoughts....... I commend BRP for sending a tech down to look at my :spyder:and other people's :spyder:. That was good on a "customer service" move. The thing that bothers me is they swapped out a part and it's been months for some of us who have had the new part. They haven't told us what went wrong w/ the old part, or even if the old part was bad and this is the fix. So since nobody told me it is totally fixed and this was the answer, I still don't trust it. I don't wanna be on a highway with this happening, therefor I won't ride on a highway until I get the word that this is the final answer. So, basically I have a $17K machine sitting in my garage (I still love my :spyder:and the concept) but I will not be riding it the same because I am unsure of it at this time.

Even if BRP is working very hard to figure all this out (and I am sure they are - I believe them when they say that) I would like to hear, "We don't have a concrete answer yet", not "We threw a new part in there, not sure what happened, but you can ride it now". THAT is what bothers me.

And I really do not think it is the DPS. As I've said before, I am no gearhead but I think something is going wrong communication wise with all the parts - whether it's software related, I don't know. But I am just not convinced it is the DPS. If the old DPS's were taken out of our :spyder:and looked at and if something WAS indeed wrong with them, why can't they tell us this?

So that's that I guess. I understand alot of you have not had any problems - that's great - so you didn't draw the short stick. But for those of you who have had no problems or are happy with a new part put in with no worries, then I hope you have a safe bike to ride. I am happy for you.