Is it time to stop group riding?

[NautiBrit]

This weekend I was riding with a group of 2 wheeled friends, including my daughter on a VTX and son-in-law on a Valkyrie, when a Goldwing rider, 5 riders ahead of me took a right hand curve wide and went head on into an oncoming small car. He was too fast in, couldn't get back on track, and made the standard mistake of getting on the front brake. He stood the Wing up, rode straight into the front of the car, and crumpled it's front end. The two riders immediately behind him couldn't react quickly enough and went down, but fortunately my daughter and son-in law were riding slower and keeping their distance and were able to stop without incidence. I was last with my wife on the Spyder and had no problem stopping either.

The GW rider was airlifted out and is still in ICU with 2 broken wrists and a head injury (no helmet), another downed rider and passenger were also airlifted, but were released the same day. What started out as a beautiful ride in ideal conditions, ended up as a tragedy.

I have been on many group rides in over 50 years of riding, but it seems as though there are many inexperienced riders out there today and it dampens my enthusiasm for the group ride. The groups I ride with are mainly older guys, but many have come to the sport late in life and are unable to handle an emergency situation. Obviously, I feel safer in a group on my Spyder than on my VFR, but the lack of experience of my fellow riders has me worried and reticent of future groups.

As we come into the riding season, please be safe and never trust in the group that you are riding with. RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE.

 

[ARtraveler]

There are both pro's and con's to group riding. For me--the big thing is the experience of the riders you choose to ride with. I wont ride with just anyone I do not know. The fact the guy was not even wearing a helmet would give me a clue not to ride with him. The no helmet does not indicate the person is a bad rider--but it does open questions about their willingness to be safe.

I have mentioned this in an earlier post--I have ridden with an organized group for the past 10 years. We go on over 20 rides each summer--generally 20 - 50 bikes (broken up into groups of 10 or less). We have never had an accident or anyone injured on our rides.

We require new riders to ride in a newbie group (meaning new to group riding--not brand new to riding motorcycles), they are given instruction, and checked for safety equipment. No helmet, gloves, other safety gear, motorcycle endorsement, insurance--no ride. The leader and the sweep usually communicate bike to bike so that we can keep an eye on the members in the group--with plenty of space given to some.

As the group leader for the newbie group--I recognize there can be some danger--riding with inexperienced group riders--we work with them--and graduate them out when they are ready to ride with faster, more experienced groups.

I realize everyone has to start somewhere and I also get a lot of satisfaction in training new riders. My non group rides are with people I am experienced with--but choose the people carefully. I have also went on training rides with brand new riders--coaching them through helmet communicators.

There is a time and place for group rides--but I do not recommend it for brand new or inexperienced riders.

 

[bone crusher]

This weekend I was riding with a group of 2 wheeled friends, including my daughter on a VTX and son-in-law on a Valkyrie, when a Goldwing rider, 5 riders ahead of me took a right hand curve wide and went head on into an oncoming small car. He was too fast in, couldn't get back on track, and made the standard mistake of getting on the front brake. He stood the Wing up, rode straight into the front of the car, and crumpled it's front end. The two riders immediately behind him couldn't react quickly enough and went down, but fortunately my daughter and son-in law were riding slower and keeping their distance and were able to stop without incidence. I was last with my wife on the Spyder and had no problem stopping either.

The GW rider was airlifted out and is still in ICU with 2 broken wrists and a head injury (no helmet), another downed rider and passenger were also airlifted, but were released the same day. What started out as a beautiful ride in ideal conditions, ended up as a tragedy.

I have been on many group rides in over 50 years of riding, but it seems as though there are many inexperienced riders out there today and it dampens my enthusiasm for the group ride. The groups I ride with are mainly older guys, but many have come to the sport late in life and are unable to handle an emergency situation. Obviously, I feel safer in a group on my Spyder than on my VFR, but the lack of experience of my fellow riders has me worried and reticent of future groups.

As we come into the riding season, please be safe and never trust in the group that you are riding with. RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE.

I find large group rides to be suffocating...I like to ride with only a few others...and I like a brisk pace.

As far as not wearing a helmet, that's Darwinism for you...gotta be pretty dumb to do that...

 

[Pincushion]

RIDE RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE is something so many people forget, or in some cases never learn.
I ryde in groups pretty often and there is a vast difference in rider experience levels on a few of these rydes. We did have a VERY close call when a rider (not our group, but riding in another group) on a borrowed bike coming the other way lost control on a right hand sweeping corner and slid the bike into our lane, splitting our group and missing three spyders (each by just a few feet). That rider was going too fast for his skill on an unfamiliar bike on a road he had never been on. We stopped gave what little medical aid we could and helped direct traffic until police and fire arrived. Luckily the rider had no serious injures, but I'm sure he learned a valuable lesson that day.
I am in the process of putting together a class on group ryding for my group. I have talked to a few HOG Road Captains and Instructors to teach this class for us. We still are working on dates and locations.
It has been well received by both seasoned ryders and new Spyder owners/ryders alike and many are eagerly awaiting this class.

 

[Al Bragg]

I don't like big group rides. Two years ago my wife and I did a toy ride that was huge. The group ended up spread out all over the freeway for miles. At one point our group was doing over 100mph to catch up with another group ahead of us. This was in weekend traffic. Not a fun ride.

I have riden with our local group of spyders a few times and really liked the whole experiance. Some of the more experienced riders give good advice on group rides, like stager, let the cages move in and out of the group, don't crowed each other. :chat:

 

[effgjamis]

I notice the words noobie and friends.
Like a neebie won't be my friend. I am not so sure that this attitude is self destructive and it is very possible that one or all of the noobies will be great friends.
I believe it behoves us to take the noobie in hand, and give instruction on how to ride, not only by one's self but in a group.
After the instruction and rides, I then say you can pick and choose the ones that you do not want to ride with.
I am sure, that we, or those who have many years of riding experience, have never made any riding mistakes.
I for one, have made some and to my dissapointment to myself The error could have been avoidable had I paid a little more attention to the situation.
So.... give the neebie a break and help, if they don't want help, then say goodby.

Just an ole mans thoughts.

 

[KipDM]

for the record: i have not ridden in over 20 years (a little Honda 250 back in 87/88). when the mod work is done on my Spyder i will be ryding with a permit (not endorsement) for a while as i get accustomed to a different riding experience.

that being the case the North Carolina moto handbook states whenever riding in a group the lead and sweep should be most experienced and all new riders in the middle.
i think this is very important. before the g'ride begins, communicate with each other (not everyone has comm units in helmets) and let experience lead. if you are in a g'ride and do NOT know about the experience of your leader, you have relinquished your own control over your own safety.

as a new rider (again) i plan on taking it slow for a bit and actually practicing all the noob handling exercises as much as i can before ever hitting traffic (the school parking lot i am going to use is literally 2 blocks away) but you can never count on everyone else doing this.

i have seen incredibly competent (and mature) riders in their 20s and i have seen incompetent, immature jerks that were over 50 so please talk with people before the ride. if you need to break into smaller groups, do. if you feel uncomfortable, leave or follow much further behind (or volunteer to lead).



just my 2 cents...

 

[dave01]

I notice the words noobie and friends.
Like a neebie won't be my friend. I am not so sure that this attitude is self destructive and it is very possible that one or all of the noobies will be great friends.
I believe it behoves us to take the noobie in hand, and give instruction on how to ride, not only by one's self but in a group.
After the instruction and rides, I then say you can pick and choose the ones that you do not want to ride with.
I am sure, that we, or those who have many years of riding experience, have never made any riding mistakes.
I for one, have made some and to my dissapointment to myself The error could have been avoidable had I paid a little more attention to the situation.
So.... give the neebie a break and help, if they don't want help, then say goodby.

Just an ole mans thoughts.

Good call Forrest. My Saturday night rides on 2 wheels usually has 150-200 bikes and I wont lie that we are always running slow. I can get away with it on 2 wheels more than the Spyder..LOL We have a smaller group leaving before we do and we monitor thier progress since we are all going to the same places. If they cant adapt after a few weeks, they stay in the newer group. If they do ok, then they are good to go with us. Anyone around the Clwtr/Tampa area usually hear us running the bridges in the wee hours.

 

[Bob Denman]

One of the most compelling aspects of riding (or ryding!) is the chance to enjoy an activity with those with whom a common interest is shared.
That having been said... riding your own ride and not trusting other folks to make decisions for you is the best advice that can be given! :thumbup:
No helmet... that's reserved for another thread at another time...
:shemademe_smilie::lecturef_smilie:

 

[docdoru]

Anyone around the Clwtr/Tampa area usually hear us running the bridges in the wee hours.

"Do you know how fast you were going?"
"Yes sir, about 140"
"You will NOT speak unless spoken to!"
"But you asked-..."
"STOP RESISTING!"
"I'm not resis-.....
"OFFICER DOWN! SEND BACKUP!"

 

[effgjamis]

Not sure how to respond to Doc's reply... But, My RT won't go 140.. Not sure if it would if pushed off a tall building.

" Officer Down "" Call the Doctor. I am sure he has the solution.

See you all in court, as I sit in the back as an observer.:roflblack:... yeah, I know it is not funny.:yikes:

 

[Bob Denman]

Maybe his speedo is registering in the kph scale?? Probably not!

 

[dltang]

I notice the words noobie and friends.
Like a neebie won't be my friend. I am not so sure that this attitude is self destructive and it is very possible that one or all of the noobies will be great friends.
I believe it behoves us to take the noobie in hand, and give instruction on how to ride, not only by one's self but in a group.
After the instruction and rides, I then say you can pick and choose the ones that you do not want to ride with.
I am sure, that we, or those who have many years of riding experience, have never made any riding mistakes.
I for one, have made some and to my dissapointment to myself The error could have been avoidable had I paid a little more attention to the situation.
So.... give the neebie a break and help, if they don't want help, then say goodby.

Just an ole mans thoughts.

Very good thoughts they are Forrest.

 

[IWN2RYD]

It is not the Group Ryde...

It is the responsibility of the leader in each group ryde to establish order.

Noobs in the middle. The most experienced front and rear. Those that want to endanger others lives need not to ryde. Of course a few scattered experienced ryders in the middle as well to allow for stranglers and brake down assistance...

Group rydes are not about how fast we can take a turn, it is about the experience and comradery along the way.

When you get a group of folks together I like one rule. Ego's stay home. The rest is guides for a safe return.

One last thing. It is not the group ryde. It is the ryder... How many single bike accidents across the country are there vs group rydes...

 

[Yazz]

Groups rides can be fun or deadly. Depends who you're with and where you are riding.

Riding alone is the same way. Depends where your riding and where your head is at.

It all boils down to riding your own ride. If the lead signals its your turn to pass the semi, take a peek down the road to make sure its safe vs. going for it and finding out the hard way a car was coming. Its what you'd do if you were riding alone?

Riding your own ride in a pack is different tho. If the pack is going a safe, steady speed, you keep up with the pack. It doesn't mean you can slow down to get a good look at the cow over there with one horn. Thats what can start a yo-yo effect at the back of the pack going super fast and super slow. Be considerate of those behind you.

If the lead is going too fast, signal the riders behind you to pass. That way you can be at the back of the pack and go at a pace that is comfortable for you without holding other riders up.

--------

We have a corner by our house that has three more crosses by it since we moved in seven years ago. They were all motorcycle right hand curve accidents. One is for a couple in the neighborhood whose two sons were waiting for them to take them to soccer practice.

NautiBrit, so relieved no one was killed. Sending healing vibes their way...

 

[pauly1]

There is a group that offers Accident Scene Management (ASMI) courses. It's all about preventing further injuries, assessing the scene, contacting authorities, and providing basic emergency treatment to the victims. They are often offered through local HOG chapters. Sounds like this was NautiBrit group's response to the accident.

I support effgjamis' comment on helping people get off on the right start to safe riding. Think of it as self serving: they may not be riding with you, but they could be the idiot who just slid across lanes of traffic like Pincushion has told.

p.s. I am a Road Captain for two local HOG chapters. (SpyderDeb rides with the groups-they don't want her, they don't me.) Working with new-to-group-riders is part of the role. It is important to stress to new riders to ride within their capabilities and within the law, including speed limits and stop signs!

Ride safe!
Wayne

 

[NancysToy]

I seldom ride in a group. There are many reasons. Incidents like this one are an example. There are too many riders out there that failed to learn ( or have forgotten) basic riding skills, or fail to practice what they do know. Nobody should ever grab the front brake only on a motorcycle...except maybe when holding it on a hill. Every rider should be painfully aware of the effect of using too much front brake, using it during a turn, or using it with poor road conditions. Too many riders don't have a clue. Another frightening thing...riding in side-by-side formation. That one is an invitation to disaster. We kill a rider or two a year around here because of that one. It is fortunate you guys left enough space to stop and react, too many group riders don't...and they don't look far enough ahead.

If you have to ride with a group, make sure the group follows some of the advice above, and puts experienced riders in the lead and tail. Make sure they go over hand signals and lane usage before the ride. Make sure they will use staggered formation. If the ride doesn't seem safe, is too fast (or slow), or if you get separated from the group...just ride your own ride. Getting to the destination in one piece is far more important than arriving with your buddies.

(End of rant)

 

[boborgera]

I haven't been on a group ride since the early 70's, and when i think back I don't know how i made it to the 80's:shocked: what with being young and riding bikes that had more power than the riders have brains.
I find that when i ride alone to some extent i can control my own destiny.:dontknow: Too many new riders now days buy bikes that are too heavy for them, hence down they go.:lecturef_smilie:

 

[granpa in Cincy]

Wife and I are planning to go to Spyderfest.

Seeing some of these responses makes me wonder if we should reconsider.

 

[MouthPiece]

I seldom ride in a group. There are many reasons.

DITTO!!!!