Is it time to stop group riding?

[Firefly]

Wife and I are planning to go to Spyderfest.

Seeing some of these responses makes me wonder if we should reconsider.

You do not HAVE to participate in the group rides at Spyderfest to have a good time....

 

[Firefly]

Sorry to hear of this accident. Good advice by all that posted above, but one statement I have an issue with.

Whether a person wears a helmet or not is not a good indicator of their riding ability. Many of us out here that are good riders will occasionally ditch the helmet on a hot day. Is it smart? NO. Does it make the person a worse rider? NO. In fact, you can see MUCH more around your environment when not wearing a helmet. Still not a smart thing to do - but some of us do it.

Whenever I ride in a group with riders that I know are 'green' - I choose to ride BEHIND them for the sole purpose of keeping an eye on them 100% of the time..... I can stay back and avoid any crazy thing they might do --- but if they are behind me I might miss them doing something dumb that might affect ME.

Sounds like the other bikes near the guy that crashed were following too close. 2-3 seconds folks.

Good post Forrest!

 

[ARtraveler]

I knew this would be a lively subject when I chimed in. In my efforts to keep it under 5 pages, I left some things out, figuring I have been around long enough that most of you knew where I was coming from. A few have jumped on certain words and with quoting them a little out of context they seem to say things different from my original intent.

IMO: the intent of the thread was "Should we quit riding in groups?"

My answer was no. I presented my argument for the reasons, sighting safety records (if mostly done right) and dealing with inexperienced riders.

I concluded with being in favor of group rides, with a caveat that IMO its not for brand new or inexperienced riders. To many things to watch out for in addition to riding the motorcycle/spyder.

I made a helmet comment that could be interpreted as uncool. I am a beliver in safety overkill. I apologize for any offense on that.

My comments about not willing to ride with everybody still stand. I too, think its good to let the least experienced riders be towards the front--I really watch my rear view when I am driving with inexperienced riders on club night. I am not stuck up--just safety oriented.

I have done a lot of one on one work with new riders, I enjoy it a lot, and also do a lot of rides with them.

Im just a rider who wants to share the sport with as many people as I can and impart as much information as I can, so they too can enjoy the sport. I appreciate the fact that I can work with new riders on a regular basis.

Once again, I really appreciate this forum and the varied opinions that are presented. It is great to see both sides of a subject. I'm learning more every day.

 

[dancogan]

Wife and I are planning to go to Spyderfest.

Seeing some of these responses makes me wonder if we should reconsider.

A) It's too close for you not to go.
B) There will be ride maps, so you can do any of rides on your own.
C) Many of us do not ride in groups, or not in large groups.
D) It will be fun with, or without, the group rides.
E) See A through D above.

 

[BajaRon]

I don't think you throw away group rides just because something went wrong. Group rides definitely have their place.

That being said I generally do not like group rides. Here is why.

Riding means freedom. Every time you add a random pick rider, chances are your cutting the remaining freedom factor in 1/2. If you're talking about compatable (like styles of riding) then reduction of freedom factor is minimal or actually enhanced.

But there are times when I enjoy group rides. I spend the first few minutes sizing up riders around me, just like I would any other potentially hazardous situation.

If I don't think I can live with one or more components in close proximity, I move to a different location in the pack. I definitely have to be in the kick back mode to enjoy any group ride.

Group rides are just like any other multiple component system. Everything works off of the 'Weakest Link'.

 

[Bob Denman]

I knew this would be a lively subject when I chimed in. In my efforts to keep it under 5 pages, I left some things out, figuring I have been around long enough that most of you knew where I was coming from. A few have jumped on certain words and with quoting them a little out of context they seem to say things different from my original intent.
IMO: the intent of the thread was "Should we quit riding in groups?"
My answer was no. I presented my argument for the reasons, sighting safety records (if mostly done right) and dealing with inexperienced riders.
I concluded with being in favor of group rides, with a caveat that IMO its not for brand new or inexperienced riders. To many things to watch out for in addition to riding the motorcycle/spyder.
I made a helmet comment that could be interpreted as uncool. I am a beliver in safety overkill. I apologize for any offense on that.
My comments about not willing to ride with everybody still stand. I too, think its good to let the least experienced riders be towards the front--I really watch my rear view when I am driving with inexperienced riders on club night. I am not stuck up--just safety oriented.
I have done a lot of one on one work with new riders, I enjoy it a lot, and also do a lot of rides with them.
Im just a rider who wants to share the sport with as many people as I can and impart as much information as I can, so they too can enjoy the sport. I appreciate the fact that I can work with new riders on a regular basis.
Once again, I really appreciate this forum and the varied opinions that are presented. It is great to see both sides of a subject. I'm learning more every day.

:agree: about 200 percent with your assessment of this issue... :thumbup:

 

[IWN2RYD]

Wife and I are planning to go to Spyderfest.

Seeing some of these responses makes me wonder if we should reconsider.

Not sure what your thoughts are exactly, but this to me is a lot different. Spyderfest group rydes are not the same as these in my mind.

Group rydes in general are a handful of folks gathering other like minded individuals. In that group includes new to the bike scene all the way to seasoned year round ryders. Ryding various type and models of bikes.

Spyderfest will be dominated by Spyders. This means no side by side ryding and far safer abilities. In a controlled "Guided" with rules to follow on the trips.

Anyway... We went on a few group rydes last year and they all had a wide range of bikes and experiences. The staple in all of them was a set of rules that needed to be agreed to or please fell free to come back at a later date.

We are going on a group ryde this weekend and again on April 24th. And am darn glad to have the opportunity to do it.

My point earlier is this. More than once I have had to respond (As an EMT) to an Accident scene, and speed, inexperience or plan old ignorance was the cause. Most of the time when it was during a group ryde, it was because a few folks went outside the group ryde rules during a moment of "Yippeeeee". I am as guilty of that as anyone. I am just saying that rules help limit this, but never will eliminate it.

Sadly no rules our any amount of guiding will ever eliminate accidents. Heck I have seen very few automotive Poker Runs not have some kind of accident after it is all said and done. The difference here is two wheels = potential for human injury that is far greater than in an auto.

One thing is certain. Most Spyder owners I have ever met seem to have a built in understanding of what is safe and what is not. Whether that is from previous experience or the fact that many have driven autos for many years and have that experience of the road. Who knows. I just know I am hapy to ryde with almost any bike or Spyder ryder as long as the ryde is fun and the "Yippee" moments are done when it is safe to do so.

 

[granpa in Cincy]

Not sure what your thoughts are exactly, but this to me is a lot different.

I was particularly disquieted by DOCDORU'S post.

 

[NancysToy]

Not sure what your thoughts are exactly, but this to me is a lot different. Spyderfest group rydes are not the same as these in my mind.

Group rydes in general are a handful of folks gathering other like minded individuals. In that group includes new to the bike scene all the way to seasoned year your ryders. Ryding various type and models of bikes.

Spyderfest will be dominated by Spyders. This means no side by side ryding and far safer abilities. In a controlled "Guided" with rules to follow on the trips. ........

:agree: A group of all (or mostly) Spyders is much different...and much safer. Just allow plenty of reaction time to the Spyder ahead.

 

[Firefly]

I knew this would be a lively subject when I chimed in. In my efforts to keep it under 5 pages, I left some things out, figuring I have been around long enough that most of you knew where I was coming from. A few have jumped on certain words and with quoting them a little out of context they seem to say things different from my original intent.

IMO: the intent of the thread was "Should we quit riding in groups?"

My answer was no. I presented my argument for the reasons, sighting safety records (if mostly done right) and dealing with inexperienced riders.

I concluded with being in favor of group rides, with a caveat that IMO its not for brand new or inexperienced riders. To many things to watch out for in addition to riding the motorcycle/spyder.

I made a helmet comment that could be interpreted as uncool. I am a beliver in safety overkill. I apologize for any offense on that.

My comments about not willing to ride with everybody still stand. I too, think its good to let the least experienced riders be towards the front--I really watch my rear view when I am driving with inexperienced riders on club night. I am not stuck up--just safety oriented.

I have done a lot of one on one work with new riders, I enjoy it a lot, and also do a lot of rides with them.

Im just a rider who wants to share the sport with as many people as I can and impart as much information as I can, so they too can enjoy the sport. I appreciate the fact that I can work with new riders on a regular basis.

Once again, I really appreciate this forum and the varied opinions that are presented. It is great to see both sides of a subject. I'm learning more every day.

:agree:

------------------

I usually only like group rides that have 3-5 peeps. More than that makes me a might nervous.... ;-)

That being said --- the Spyder group rides ARE different -- especially the way that Cowtown runs them! :2thumbs:

 

[BajaRon]

I was particularly disquieted by DOCDORU'S post.

Don't worry about that... Everyone is disquieted by Doc's posts! :roflblack:

 

[SethO]

The best article about this had the line of "ride your own bike" I am sure someone on here knows who wrote it, I thought it was Peter Egan but no sure.

I ride about as hard as I can BUT with less experienced riders that WANT my help I will relegate myself to the chase vehicle once or twice to help them out.

Without the lean of a bike its a little different but you can catch simple errors that can kill you if not addressed.

Also if you are in a group where some riders want to be johnny Hero its a indirect positive of my situation that I tell them what Rossi says "Sometimes you have to risk, so I risk" What happened to me could be the result and I will admit I did not list that in the consequences of the risks I took, I thought I would be alive or dead, all or dead.

I will ride with damn near anyone once, in the end we are all riding engines with tires on them and you get smoked by a Prius and be dead.

the main thing with group rides I still struggle with is checking on the guys in back, there is NOTHING you can do for someone who goes into a corner too hot, at that moment its up to them to fall back on their training or rise to the occasion.

I have learned more from riding with others because all good riders should share info, especially to go faster..

 

[WackyDan]

Group rides are about the friendship and destination. I don't mind them, but I wouldn't want to group ride all the time. Charity rides that have a lot of bikes, police escort and a lot of rules can be boring, but it is for a good cause and I always make some new "friends".

Large Spyder group rides can be a royal pain because we can't share lanes. IE; SITS 2009... 75+ Spyders rolling around the Smokies on one ride. Made for a hell of a scene, and was fun... but negotiating traffic, intersections, etc was not fun.

Your best bet is to ride your own ride and pick a group that matches your skill level, and comfort level for speed.

Last year in the Smokies, Doc, Seth, Rshrimp(Randy), Bruce, and I rode down to the Dragon together, and then up to the BBQ. We are all good Spyder pilots, with Doc and Seth willing to take more risk in regard to citations.... We all had a great ride, we all broke the speed limit a couple times, but we all rode our own ride and Doc and Seth always waited the extra minute for us to catch up. I'd ride with Seth and Doc any day of the week and Doc I think will always ride with us as even with a GPS he gets lost.

Ironically it was with a group of riders in 2009 that one of the less experienced riders managed to keep up with everyone, but didn't want to wait for the others riding two-up to catch up.

Group riding simply takes some planning, and temporary attitude adjustments. I can't imagine just riding my Spyder alone all the dang time.

 

[docdoru]

I was particularly disquieted by DOCDORU'S post.

The clue: the speeding rider was a police officer too...
See you in Cuba, MO :thumbup:

 

[sandrunr1]

Group rydes or just the 2 of us. It makes no matter to me. I ryde last and my wife rydes right in front of me. We will stop for anyone who stops no matter the reason. I am and My wife is never in a hurry. We dont wear watches and we go the speed limit. So time is no factor. Be advised, if your on a group ryde or by yourself and are on the side of the road, we will stop. I like last. I can see so much better what is going on and no one runs up my back side.

 

[BIKEMIKE]

DRESS CODE TOO

Reading all the input from everyone on group riding is great I was the safety officer for my local GWRRA back in the mid 90s and trying to make sure all bikes and riders where ready sometimes became a job. I found riders with bad tires loose or missing parts but also where the lack of clothing now I wont tell a rider who's been riding longer than me how to dress he or she should already know. I always wear long pants and a shirt and helmet. this leads to a short story I was behind a group of sport bike kids ages 16 thru 20:doorag: riding like no tomorrow with there girlfriends on the back wearing short shorts and flipflops the drivers in shorts and tank tops.
They all stopped at the local mall so I pulled in and started talking to them. I pointed out how most of the time when a bike goes down the passenger gets the worse end of it. I asked how many of them thought they where good riders all raised there hands so I asked this one question and asked the girls to pay attention I asked each driver if they went down even at a low speed and that very pretty girl on the back wearing her shorts and tank top was to get a big road rash on that pretty body of hers that will never go way. WILL SHE STILL BE YOUR GIRLFRIEND you should have seen the looks the girls where giving the boys waiting on ther reply:dontknow: it was so funny.:roflblack: I don't remember anyone giving me a straight ansure.

 

[FANG]

We have a small group of spyder ryders on the Gulf Coast - when we first met we found that we had several level of riding expertise available. We organized a few short rydes with frequent break. Information was shared and tips and techniques learned. We have been ryding together now for over 2 years and we have achieved a comfort level in this group.
When someone new wants to join us - we always try and find out that ryders experience level and adjust our rydes appropiately.
We have all taken turns over the years leading and tail gunning.
When we ryde together I will say that we all wear helmets -- Not necessarily all gear all the time but more often than not we all have some gear on.
If I post a ryde and invite others to join I always make it a point to tell them up front that to ryde with us you must wear a helmet.
Been a nurse to long I guess - don't need to scrape brains from the pavement anymore.
Main thing is as all others have said - ryde within yourself and PAY ATTENTION TO OTHERS!!!

 

[Desert Spyder]

One of the worst examples I have ever witnessed in group ryding was our very own at the Owners Rally in LA 2008. It could have been a west coast philosophy of speed vs common sense, I dunno. I haven't been to Spyder rallys in other parts of the country yet. But 250 ryders all going up a 2 lane canyon with virtually no control was an invitation to disaster. If anything would have happened BRP could have had their butts sued. I hope BRP and rally organizers in the future would establish safety above all else. I plan to keep my life and limbs after I retire.

 

[bruiser]

Been on several group rides. Our group are all experienced riders. We all try to ride together in larger group rides, ie; toy runs, poker runs etc. We try to insist that large groups are broken into smaller groups that have staggard departure times. However, that's not always the case. We were on a charity toy ride last December with over 200 bikes. And as was previously mentioned we were spread out and had to do the speed up slow down dance to keep together. I was in the middle of the pack and even had bikes passing me, which really shouldn't be done in a group ride. In our group, I'm the tailgunner for the simple fact that I ride the :spyder2:. I have been asked to lead, which I will do, put prefer tailgunner. Unfortunately, in some large group rides, you can't be sure of everyones experience. So as has been said before in this thread, ride your ride.

 

[JJW SpyderRider]

This has been a great and informative thread, just in time for Spyderfest!

I have only been on one group ride and will not ride with that group again, and I doubt they want me ether. We had 35 bikes and my Spyder. I was told to be in the middle which is where I started. I would not ride right up on the guy ahead and left about 1 to 1-1/2 second gap as did another rider ahead of me leading the next group of 12 bikes. The rider behind me was almost on my left wheel trying to push me to go faster. At each stop it was harder to get back in line as nobody wanted to let me out. By the end of the ride I was near the very end. A friend invited me but I was on my own the whole ride and many of other bikers didn't want to have anything to do with the Spyder.

It was fun though, at every stop they went into the bar and ended up staying behind anwering questions from the people lined up to see the Spyder. :2thumbs: