cognaccruiser
New member
Bob, I think if not mistaken that Ron addresses that in the 3rd paragraph of his post no. 8.
Gary
Gary
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Gates Krikit II Belt Tension Gauges
- Thread starter BajaRon
- Start date
Bob Denman
New member
pps: I had missed that point on the first pass... Thanks! :thumbup:
BajaRon
Well-known member
I can't give you a definite answer. But I highly recommend disengaging the tensioner before taking a reading. I would assume the tensioner would raise the reading. Though by how much, I am not sure. It may not be by all that much.
Take a reading both ways. If the reading with the tensioner DISENGAGED is within specs, then the reading with the tensioner ENGAGED will also be within specs. In this case, simply note the reading with the tensioner engaged as that is what your 'Normal'. That way you won't have to mess with the tensioner every time you want to take a reading. As I said, the tensioner may not make much if any difference.
elkk
New member
I bought a Krikit II on line and it clicked 6 or 7 times and will no longer click. So I guess a few are bad like everything else. I ordered a replacement.
elkk
New member
Belt Tension Value Question
I been screwing with this 15 minute job all afternoon. So simple yet so hard, adjustments change as I tighten things up. I need to know the correct method first.
I am confused. BajaRon chart shows tension values both for 'wheel on the ground' and 'wheel elevated'. The service manual clearly says 'lift rear of vehicle by the frame until rear wheel is off the ground. Do not lift under rear shock absorber', DRIVE BELT TENSION = 1400 N to 1600 N (314lbs to 359lbs). The only video I can find measures tension with the Krikit II at 160lbs to 180lbs with the wheel elevated. BajaRon values agree with 160lbs to 190lbs but measured with 'wheel on the ground' I'm confused...help!
See Video
I been screwing with this 15 minute job all afternoon. So simple yet so hard, adjustments change as I tighten things up. I need to know the correct method first.
I am confused. BajaRon chart shows tension values both for 'wheel on the ground' and 'wheel elevated'. The service manual clearly says 'lift rear of vehicle by the frame until rear wheel is off the ground. Do not lift under rear shock absorber', DRIVE BELT TENSION = 1400 N to 1600 N (314lbs to 359lbs). The only video I can find measures tension with the Krikit II at 160lbs to 180lbs with the wheel elevated. BajaRon values agree with 160lbs to 190lbs but measured with 'wheel on the ground' I'm confused...help!
See Video
PistonBlown
Active member
The figures you quote from your workshop manual seem to be exceptionally high to me. In my 2011RS manual the figures match Ron's exactly.
The video you've linked to is the same one I use. This guys videos are great and I'm always referring to them but he's not one for following the manual
The was a long thread a while ago about belt tensions ased on the Krikit. I did try finding it but haven't had much, but from memory:
- As much as possible measure with the wheel off the ground as it's always more accurate.
- The range of personal measurements people went with varied enormously, from memory some were in the 90's while others were over 200 (on the Krikit)
- A lot of riders preferred the upper end of the scale 135 - 170. Though this was above the recommended range it gave a smoother ride. The downside is a possible increase in wear on bearings.
elkk
New member
On page 418 of my manual it says turn the wheel and check in several places, the rear wheel had been raised so I think the reading are taken with the wheel off the ground.
Doc - Riverside
New member
Setting the belt tension is always done with the rear wheel off the ground. To lift the wheel off the ground the jack point is the frame not the shock. The 1400-1600 Newton you quoted was changed by BRP to 450 Newton +/- 150 newtons for all 2008 thru 2012 Spders. Update your manual. There is no stated spec for a on the ground measurement. The numbers that have been throw out there are a value because they don't want to do the measurement the correct way ( wheel off the ground ).
elkk
New member
So the correct lbs using the Krikit II is 300 N = 67lbs to 600 N = 134lbs off the ground? Seems really low but...is that the correct conversion?
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BajaRon
Well-known member
Here is the situation. If the belt is properly tensioned and gives a reading X with the wheel lifted which, as you say, is the correct way to do it.
And then you get a measurement of X+1, every time on this same belt with the wheel on the ground. You can then safely assume that both measurements are correct and reliable if used properly.
Of course if you have heavy stuff in the rear bags (RT) that will affect the 'On the Ground' measurement. But there is a pretty HUGE range within which the Spyder drive belt is 'In Spec.'.
No one is saying NOT to measure your belt with the rear tire lifted. In fact, it is a VERY GOOD idea to take a measurement with the wheel lifted BEFORE making any adjustments just to be sure. But in reality, you're going to get very accurate measurements using the converted 'Lifted to Grounded' numbers. Accuracy may sufferer a little with the wheel on the ground. But not enough to warrant going to the trouble of lifting your Spyder when you're checking belt tension at the hotel before your next leg of the trip.
finless
New member
Ron, I checked my belt tension after installing Jim's smooth spyder with it set to 10 lbs. I could see no discernible reading difference on the Kirkit II. Logically you would think if I read 160 with no smooth spyder then adding it would add 10lbs so I now should read 170. But this is not the case. The gauge on the kirkit II is not fine enough to read a pound or 2. So just so you know what I got.
Bob
metman
New member
Rear Wheel Elevated?
Ron,
Whenever I work on my '12 RT, I raise it from the right side with a HF style ATV jack and use jack stands under the lower A arms just inside the front tires. Then the back end has a jack stand under the trailer hitch.
Would this still constitute a proper "wheel elevated" condition or should I use a floor jack under the frame and let the rear wheel "hang"? Seems to me like jack stands under the A arms and trailer hitch are about the same as the whole bike sitting on the ground, but.....
Mike in KY
Ron,
Whenever I work on my '12 RT, I raise it from the right side with a HF style ATV jack and use jack stands under the lower A arms just inside the front tires. Then the back end has a jack stand under the trailer hitch.
Would this still constitute a proper "wheel elevated" condition or should I use a floor jack under the frame and let the rear wheel "hang"? Seems to me like jack stands under the A arms and trailer hitch are about the same as the whole bike sitting on the ground, but.....
Mike in KY
M109Dreamer
Active member
I wouldnt think that by placing the jack stands under the hitch would constitute a wheel off the ground reading. I would believe by taking a reading while supporting the swing arm would give you a lower reading than what is actually a wheel off the ground reading due to the fact that you would be releasing some of the tension of the belt by supporting the swing arm with jack stands IMO.
BajaRon
Well-known member
That is interesting and frankly, I am not surprised. A 10 lb. setting on the tensioner is not necessarily imparting 10 liner pounds to the belt tension that you are measuring. I have not done any research or experimentation with a belt tensioner so I'm just running off what seems logical to me.
The tensioner is more of a dynamic tool than a static tool. Still, it has to add some tension. But it appears that it is negligible. And again, I'm not surprised.
The Gates Gauge does not give extremely fine readings. But then the range of acceptable belt tension is on the HUGE side. So the increments on the gauge are plenty accurate enough. Which I know you already understand.
Great information! Hopefully others will verify your findings.
As long as you are supporting the swing arm (which you are when you lift at the trailer hitch) you are still, effectively getting a 'Wheel on the Ground' reading even though the tire is not actually touching the ground. It is the suspension that you must unload to get a 'Lifted' reading.
So yes, you need to let the swingarm 'Hang' to get a wheel off the ground reading. It really doesn't matter what you do with the front end for this measurement, of course. But the same goes for the front. You have to unload the suspension otherwise you are not going to be in a 'Wheels off the Ground' situation regardless of whether or not the wheels are suspended.
finless
New member
+100
So you understand when the swing arm drops the belt gets looser. Jacking it up off the ground using the hitch, sure the tire is off the ground but the swing arm has not moved.
Bob
BajaRon
Well-known member
Exactly right. Ideally, the swing arm pivot point would be the same as the front pulley output shaft. But this is an engineering devil and not worth the time, money or effort to accomplish. So, the swing arm pivots BEHIND the front pulley output shaft.
This means that as the rear wheel/swing arm assembly moves up and down, the distance from the front pulley to the rear pulley also changes. Which in turn changes the belt tension. This is exactly why you will get a different belt tension reading with the rear wheel all the way down. Since this is the only standard reference point in the arc of the rear wheel, this is the point at which BRP gives specs. But since the drive belt never actually operates in this position, the real goal is to tension the belt at this unused point at a value which will serve well with the wheel on the ground. Which is were the belt actually operates.
However, I believe it has been demonstrated that given the great deal of variance in the belt tension spec. and that you can duplicate a 'Wheel on the Ground' reading which correlates exactly to the 'Wheel off the Ground' value, it is a safe practice to check your belt tension with the wheel on the ground.
Of course if you get a belt tension reading that is out of spec or near out of spec. I would then highly recommend getting a Wheel off the Ground measurement to verify that you are, indeed, in need of an adjustment.
In regards to the Krikit II gauge, all of this is relevant ONLY to the 2008-2012 Spyders as the 'Wheel on the Ground' values for the 2013-2015 models exceeds the capability of the Krikit II gauge. With the possible exception of the new F3. If Capt.Jim is correct that there is a revised value for that machine of (625N-925N), then the 'Wheel on the Ground' values may also fall within the Krikit II's ability to measure.
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