F3 Front Sprocket Inspection

[JKMSPYDER]

SPROCKET

Road-Kill I do not wish to make fun of your situation, but from the photo of your sprocket it could grenade any minute. So now you are part of the 1%!! Glad you checked your sprocket. Checking now could save you from a serious accident in the future!:yikes: Hopefully you won’t be so critical in the future when other Spyder members bring up a potential problem.

 

[Sarge707]

Now That we Know there is a Problem-WHAT is Brp Going to do?
1st It was the Reinforcement of the Frame (2015)?
2nd The 2015 sm6 Clutch needed a Vacuum assist UNLESS your King Kong??
3rd- Had to Buy the 2 Up shock to protect the frame Potential Failure?
Now I have to Buy a Sprocket Every 10,000- Miles?
Wake Up BRP??????????????????

And the sprocket for the 2017 is the same as the 2015 so they are clueless!

We should have it replaced for free (Even if out of Warranty) On their Dime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Freddy]

See post 12 for the outcome of this owner's damaged shaft & pulley on earlier model.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...ad-news-slipping-clutch&p=1312984#post1312984

 

[Road-Kill]

Wow, that is a lot of red dust!
The way I see it you have two choices;
1. Ryde it like you stole it cause there isn't really a problem......:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:
or
2. Get it to dealer ASAP while accelerating very gently. Insist upon the Loctite 660 to be added in between the splines of the new sprocket.

I would not disturb the bolt for an inspection. I have seen less rust on sprockets that have completely grenaded, so you ain't got much spline left on that sprocket.

Road-Kill I do not wish to make fun of your situation, but from the photo of your sprocket it could grenade any minute. So now you are part of the 1%!! Glad you checked your sprocket. Checking now could save you from a serious accident in the future!:yikes: Hopefully you won’t be so critical in the future when other Spyder members bring up a potential problem.

I'm not admitting that I am wrong.....yet.
I made an appointment with my dealer for next Thursday for both my 18,000+ mile service and the evil "red dust".
This still could be a nothing burger so I'm not admitting I was wrong.....yet.
So until I'm told my front sprocket is grinding you can all blow it out your *sses. :thumbup:

 

[tip]

sprocket

Checked mine and it is ok.
This thread is getting out of hand!! I see no need for some of the comments or language.
If any of you have a personal vendetta why not use PM's and quit the nastiness!
I joined this forum to learn and meet fellow members.
It gets old when you ask a straight question or for an honest opinion and you get some crazy video or people fly off the handle
because "you don't agree" with the answer.
Go to PM's if you want to be nasty - don't drag everyone into your silliness.
I feel better - thank you!
Tip

 

[SPYD3R]

DEAD HORSE

I'm not admitting that I am wrong.....yet.
I made an appointment with my dealer for next Thursday for both my 18,000+ mile service and the evil "red dust".
This still could be a nothing burger so I'm not admitting I was wrong.....yet.
So until I'm told my front sprocket is grinding you can all blow it out your *sses. :thumbup:

:bdh:

 

[Road-Kill]

Checked mine and it is ok.
This thread is getting out of hand!! I see no need for some of the comments or language.
If any of you have a personal vendetta why not use PM's and quit the nastiness!
I joined this forum to learn and meet fellow members.
It gets old when you ask a straight question or for an honest opinion and you get some crazy video or people fly off the handle
because "you don't agree" with the answer.
Go to PM's if you want to be nasty - don't drag everyone into your silliness.
I feel better - thank you!
Tip

What nastiness?
These are people posting their thoughts on a topic they feel concerned about.
You are reading a thread but you are not hearing their voices so you assumed something bad.
I do not feel anyone has become "nasty" over this thread which is about a metal gear that might become loose and rusty.
Its nice to argue your point, its how we learn.
There is nothing wrong with arguing a point or cracking some jokes so blow it out of your *ss and grow a pair.

 

[tip]

nastiness

I rest my case!!

 

[Road-Kill]

I rest my case!!

Its a provacative joke. :lecturef_smilie: Get a grip butter cup.nojoke

 

[tip]

Joke

Its a provacative joke. :lecturef_smilie: Get a grip butter cup.nojoke

It is an offensive joke!!

 

[Grandpot]

Ya'll calm down. Stop the insults and name calling. State facts and have a discussion.

 

[Road-Kill]

Ya'll calm down. Stop the insults and name calling. State facts and have a discussion.

Here are the facts.
I have red dust.
My dealer will do the 18,000 mile service next week and tell me what the red dust means and whether it needs replacement.
I will post his findings on this thread next Thursday the day of service.
If I'm wrong about this issue I give permission to my fellow posters to beat me up about this issue, I might be deserving of it.
My bike and this forum are about having a good time and that is how I sent and received the criticism.
:yes:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Back on track

Getting back to the reason for this thread in the first place; several folks have caught theirs just before they grenaded. That in itself in my opinion is worth the effort of the thread.
Also, all the folks that come upon this thread in the future may benefit from checking for the telltale red failure dust. As someone said, the presence of the red dust is iron powder from the splines on the pulley eroding and further reducing the fit to the shaft. This is a self propagating situation that will accelerate as more erosion occurs the fit will get looser, causing more erosion, looser fit, etc., etc..

I think that BRP should send out a heads up to owners of what to look for. The sad thing is they probably are afraid to admit a problem as this will open them up to more possible liability. My Mastertech training (and you old engineers will agree) that it is understandable that the pulley material must be softer than the shaft. From a repair standpoint it is much easier to replace a pulley than pull the eng/trans, crack it open and replace an output shaft. One of the machinists hit on the problem in my opinion, and that is a matter of the tolerances of the two mating together. If they fit well, they shouldn't fail. If they are sloppy, they probably will. Wonder if the manufacturer for the shafts is the same as the pulleys? We probably won't ever know for sure, but I would say that is the problem. Quality control of fitment.

 

[Road-Kill]

Getting back to the reason for this thread in the first place; several folks have caught theirs just before they grenaded. That in itself in my opinion is worth the effort of the thread.
Also, all the folks that come upon this thread in the future may benefit from checking for the telltale red failure dust. As someone said, the presence of the red dust is iron powder from the splines on the pulley eroding and further reducing the fit to the shaft. This is a self propagating situation that will accelerate as more erosion occurs the fit will get looser, causing more erosion, looser fit, etc., etc..

I think that BRP should send out a heads up to owners of what to look for. The sad thing is they probably are afraid to admit a problem as this will open them up to more possible liability. My Mastertech training (and you old engineers will agree) that it is understandable that the pulley material must be softer than the shaft. From a repair standpoint it is much easier to replace a pulley than pull the eng/trans, crack it open and replace an output shaft. One of the machinists hit on the problem in my opinion, and that is a matter of the tolerances of the two mating together. If they fit well, they shouldn't fail. If they are sloppy, they probably will. Wonder if the manufacturer for the shafts is the same as the pulleys? We probably won't ever know for sure, but I would say that is the problem. Quality control of fitment.

Interesting that when I made my appointment with my dealer he was ready to take me right in yet when I mentioned "red dust" he backlogged me another week. I'm thinking from knowing the head mechanic he backlogged me because he needed time to get the parts in before my arrival.
On another note....
I noticed the front sprocket has "made in USA" on it telling me you are correct in that the fit might be off and the cause.

 

[AeroPilot]

Thanks for the heads up on what to look for..

Wifes 16 F3T looks good after 19,000 miles plus. I am going to make a mental note to look at it when doing normal maintenance or maybe do a little "coast check" for noise as suggested, when I can turn the ignition off and coast safely. We will continue to RYDE, RYDE, RYDE, and not let this or other possibilities keep us from enjoying our trips on our Spyders, as we have experienced many myles of smyles and choose to continue to do so. Thanks to all for their help and communication!

 

[JKMSPYDER]

MM vs Inches

It occurred to me that the 1330 engine is manufactured in Canada or Europe and the front sprocket is made in USA. So the engine would be millimeters and the sprocket could possibly be in inches if some engineer didn’t do the math to convert. This could certainly be a possibility to cause the tolerances to be off just a bit.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Tollerances

Machining parts is not an exact science. You would think it would be, but it isn't. Each part has a go/no go range. As an example, let's say a bearing has a minimum of 1.001 and a maximum of 1.005. Now, that is only 4 thousands difference. Not much right?
Now, the housing for this bearing has a minimum of 1.006 and a maximum of 1.010. Now, that is only 4 thousands, right. Not much.

You have to have enough space for the largest tolerance to fit, so it cannot be less than that or it won't fit. And you cannot make every part exactly the same size, so again you have a go/no go range.

Now, this is where it gets sketchy, and probably the reason why some are failing and some are not. Let's say you get a shaft at the minimum tolerance to pass and a sprocket at the maximum tolerance. You then get a sloppy fit and a tendency to grenade.

Some of you retired machinists might be able to explain this better, but it is my understanding that in machining there are no absolutes in production.

 

[Freddy]

The reason given by BRP for failures on the early trikes was 'insufficient clamping force' ie bolt not tight enough. Perhaps the same cause here.

 

[cmarsala]

Thread

It is an offensive joke!!

Sorry to add to your offensiveness, but there is an escape button or X out of the thread or just don't follow it at all. This isn't a perfect world we live in. If your that thin skinned and easily offended, as one poster said, "suck it up buttercup":yikes:

 

[cmarsala]

Sprocket Failure

The reason given by BRP for failures on the early trikes was 'insufficient clamping force' ie bolt not tight enough. Perhaps the same cause here.

This could very well be a big part of the problem, I put a torque wrench on my bolt and got about an 1/8th of an inch turn before it hit the factory torque setting. My nephew is a supervisor at a machine shop so he's helping me out with the bolt, getting it drilled for the safety wire that I plan on using.:doorag: