F3 Front Sprocket Inspection

[Peteoz]

What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.:clap:

I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust :joke:roflblack:

60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue. :thumbup:

Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%. :banghead:
As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary. :yes:

Can you explain to me why you believe riders who have time on their hands and want to get on top of a potential issue that may leave them stranded are “stupid”, Road-Kill? All they are doing is trying to put some data behind the potential issue, and if a little maintenance will stop them being “stripped sprocket no 61”, good on them. I don’t think anyone is going “crazy” at all.

Pete

 

[cmarsala]

Sprocket

What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.:clap:

I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust :joke:roflblack:

60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue. :thumbup:

Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%. :banghead:
As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary. :yes:

Road-Kill, Sounds like you need to get a hobby, you appear to be an overly analytical person. I'm happy for you that you're not having any problems with your bike, but I'm sure when this happens to your bike you'll be ranting and raving to BRP. This is how recalls and TSB's get started, it's by issues coming up from a small number of customer problems and they're addressed so they don't become a major issue in the future. Not every Spyder owner reads these forums or Spyder FB pages, so we're not getting out to everyone who may have this problem, so there is no way to get more accurate numbers. So there will be no hard proof to you, just the email responses I'm getting from owners and other folks that are posting their own problem on the different forums and Facebook pages I'm on and I'm sure they're plenty of other forums I'm not aware of. These forums are setup to inform our fellow riders of the good and the bad associated with their respective bikes or other concerns some may have!
So, please don't be part of the problem with your Negative attitude......:yikes::gaah:

 

[stebrock]

What I'm reading in this thread is why I ask for citations.:clap:

I'm seeing people post they "receive" responses that as many as 60 Spyder owners have "rust" or actual sprocket failure.

Lets see if we can spot the stupid's.....(or rust :joke:roflblack:

60 owners (no proof provided) have rust or actual sprocket failure of over 100,000 Spyders makes this a whopping .06% issue. :thumbup:

Yea people....I'm going to go crazy for an issue that represents LESS THEN 1%. :banghead:
As I said before....this seems to be a big nothing burger so a quick peek for rust/looseness is all that is necessary. :yes:

I think your percentages are skewed. This is an F3 thread so the "60" failures mentioned would not be calculated against the total number of all Spyders on the road.
Rick

 

[Road-Kill]

Can you explain to me why you believe riders who have time on their hands and want to get on top of a potential issue that may leave them stranded are “stupid”, Road-Kill? All they are doing is trying to put some data behind the potential issue, and if a little maintenance will stop them being “stripped sprocket no 61”, good on them. I don’t think anyone is going “crazy” at all.

Pete

Road-Kill, Sounds like you need to get a hobby, you appear to be an overly analytical person. I'm happy for you that you're not having any problems with your bike, but I'm sure when this happens to your bike you'll be ranting and raving to BRP. This is how recalls and TSB's get started, it's by issues coming up from a small number of customer problems and they're addressed so they don't become a major issue in the future. Not every Spyder owner reads these forums or Spyder FB pages, so we're not getting out to everyone who may have this problem, so there is no way to get more accurate numbers. So there will be no hard proof to you, just the email responses I'm getting from owners and other folks that are posting their own problem on the different forums and Facebook pages I'm on and I'm sure they're plenty of other forums I'm not aware of. These forums are setup to inform our fellow riders of the good and the bad associated with their respective bikes or other concerns some may have!
So, please don't be part of the problem with your Negative attitude......:yikes::gaah:

I think your percentages are skewed. This is an F3 thread so the "60" failures mentioned would not be calculated against the total number of all Spyders on the road.
Rick

Peteoz: My "stupid" comment was geared for those who trying to balloon this 1% issue. (actually less then 1%)

cmarsala: Less then 1% is a nothing burger and very unlikely to initiate a recall.

stebrock: Anything less then 1,000 is still less then 1% so 60-100-999 is still LESS THEN 1%.
That 60 figure also includes people only with "rust" and not an actual failure making this argument even more pointless.


Get a grip people.
Rust is not a cause for great concern on an unprotected weathered gear like the front sprocket. (it happens on car rotors!)
If you see "rust" it might be a good time to have a "looksee".
This thread tells me to do nothing but keep an eye on my bike...........LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO DO :shocked:

On a last note...I'm reading that some are playing with their belt tension and probably are the 60 with sprocket failure and thus rust.
Don't play genius, you're not. BRP specs are there for a reason and why these machines are well built.

 

[robhowen]

How do I get the cover off?

This got me curious because we have a 2015 F3S. Please see the included image of the inspection cover.


I believe the cover bolts are 6mm Hex. I turn them, but I can't tell that they are loosing. I tried putting my hand behind the inspection cover and I can't tell if there is a nut or clip or ??? I know it must be easy, but can someone tell me how to get these bolts out and cover off so I may inspect my front sproket?

Rob

 

[JKMSPYDER]

Well Road-Kill I suggest you don’t worry about your F3 and don’t check your sprocket. It probably won’t happen to you. After all, it’s less than 1% right, according to your reasoning. But we are talking about F3’s only, not the whole sum of 100,000 Spyders+ ever built. And why would you question a member that said he has heard from 60 F3 owners about the problem? So in the future if you are crossing a wide intersection or riding 70 miles per hr on a 6 lane freeway, don’t worry about your sprocket. It won’t happen to you, right?

 

[motoswami]

This got me curious because we have a 2015 F3S. Please see the included image of the inspection cover.
View attachment 154999

I believe the cover bolts are 6mm Hex. I turn them, but I can't tell that they are loosing. I tried putting my hand behind the inspection cover and I can't tell if there is a nut or clip or ??? I know it must be easy, but can someone tell me how to get these bolts out and cover off so I may inspect my front sproket?

Rob:

I used a 5mm Allen key to remove the three screws which are obvious. There are clips on the backside, which should remain clipped in plate as you turn out the Allen screws. At the top, on the inside of the cover plate, there's a small black plastic push pin which secures the cover plate to the main frame rail. Mine came out when I pushed inward on the cover plate, but didn't roll far on the shop floor, calling my attention to this "invisible" fastener.

I just checked my 2015 F3-S SE6, 12,500 miles, and was relieved to find no rust.

Pete

 

[robhowen]

Thanks Pete

I guess I just didn't turn it enough as I was afraid it was just spinning inside. I'll give it more turns.

Thank you,
Rob

 

[ofdave]

while we're talking about removing the cover,
anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
Noise reduction? noise from what?
just curious

 

[jcthorne]

Is changing out the sprocket a DIY job or does it require a special puller or other tool the average Joe isn't likely to have in the garage?
Bolt head size (as measured across the flats)?

IF the old sprocket has not failed such that removal is problematic, removing the belt from the rear sprocket and a 15mm wrench are all that is required. Its not pressed on.

 

[jcthorne]

Peteoz: My "stupid" comment was geared for those who trying to balloon this 1% issue. (actually less then 1%)

cmarsala: Less then 1% is a nothing burger and very unlikely to initiate a recall.

stebrock: Anything less then 1,000 is still less then 1% so 60-100-999 is still LESS THEN 1%.
That 60 figure also includes people only with "rust" and not an actual failure making this argument even more pointless.


Get a grip people.
Rust is not a cause for great concern on an unprotected weathered gear like the front sprocket. (it happens on car rotors!)
If you see "rust" it might be a good time to have a "looksee".
This thread tells me to do nothing but keep an eye on my bike...........LIKE I'M SUPPOSED TO DO :shocked:

On a last note...I'm reading that some are playing with their belt tension and probably are the 60 with sprocket failure and thus rust.
Don't play genius, you're not. BRP specs are there for a reason and why these machines are well built.

The front sprocket is well coated. Any iron oxide dust is the result of splines material being removed and deposited on the face of the pulley. If the sprocket face is red with iron oxide dust, its time to pull and replace the sprocket. There have been NO cases where the iron oxide dust was present and the pulley was not far gone.

 

[Freddy]

while we're talking about removing the cover,
anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
Noise reduction? noise from what?
just curious

Primarily engine noise insulation and a bit of heat.
.

 

[motoswami]

noise from...?

while we're talking about removing the cover,
anybody know what the purpose of the foam on the back of it is?
Noise reduction? noise from what?


Um, noise from splines grenading?

 

[Omcge]

IMHO the problem is

I don't think that I have a problem with my RT but after following this Thread I just can't help but give my opinion of what the problem is.As a Machinist/Shop owner of 55yr I have spent many hours repairing, F****d up
piss poor engineered machined parts. I have never seen the pulley or shaft but from the pictures I can tell that the shaft is hard and the pulley is soft which is OK if they have the proper"FIT". If it were a .001-.002 interference "FIT"
it would not matter what the material was it would stay tight on the spline.Next best thing would be a good slip "FIT" which would be no wiggle Also the bolt as I see it has a "course" thread which should be a "fine" thread.
IMHO if the pulley is worn out the shaft is going to have some wear and should be replaced. Any wiggle at all on the splines will only get worse and fail again.If I had the problem and were doing it myself ,I might consider the Locktite product below which would fill the wear spots.that would be a lot easier than pulling the motor to change the shaft.
Polaris Slingshot had a similar problem with the rear pulley being Aluminum would develop a little slop and cause the rear axle nut to back off.At that time their fix was to apply a Funky Yellow Loctite product to the splines tighten and let it setup 24 hr. Once it setup they said the only to remove was to heat the pulley up. I bought some but never used it.If anyone is interested #is Loctite 641
Just my 2 cents

 

[cmarsala]

Sprocket Failure

Road-Kill
Since you have so much time on your hands and you like to group everything, I found a few Can Am forums you might be interested in so you can get some additional info to get negative about, I'm sure these folks would love to hear from you. :clap::yes:

Just a little story, when I was still in the Air Force, I had 12 C130 aircraft that I was responsible for. On 1 of them we found a crack in a main bulkhead, we fixed it and inspected the other 11, no issues found on them. I talked to the maintenance officer about it as I thought it could become an problem, he didn't agree with me and told me to forget about it. When I went to the staff meeting the next day I brought it up to the Colonel and he agreed with me, so we inspected the other 45 planes in the fleet and found 7 with the same problem. If we didn't find and fix the problem there could of been a major disaster. The Colonel informed higher headquarters what we found and they sent out notices Air Force wide to all units with C130's to inspect them, not sure how many more they found, but I did hear there was a bunch of them. Morale here is, ask questions about a problem, gather info and let the powers to be decide, small or large if there's a problem. The percentage of planes that had the problem was less the 1%, sometimes it's not the number, but the issue, safety and who it affects So I'll keep asking this question about sprocket failures, not rust as you keep bringing up and since we're talking numbers I've heard from 5 more who have had failures, 1 of them twice.

So please enjoy these other forums!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

1-http://www.can-amforum.com/
2-http://www.maverickforums.net/,
3-http://www.can-amtalk.com/forums/
4-http://www.commanderforums.org/
5-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/
6-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/forums/
7-http://www.spydertalk.com/

ENJOY

 

[r1100rider]

2017s are having the same problem. Just not as many....yet...as they are lower in miles as a group. But there have been failures of 17s as well. They also have the same sprocket, belt etc.

this shouldn't be happening at all this was a problem way back in 08 ,09 brp should have learned and resolved all these years latter

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Road-Kill
Since you have so much time on your hands and you like to group everything, I found a few Can Am forums you might be interested in so you can get some additional info to get negative about, I'm sure these folks would love to hear from you. :clap::yes:

Just a little story, when I was still in the Air Force, I had 12 C130 aircraft that I was responsible for. On 1 of them we found a crack in a main bulkhead, we fixed it and inspected the other 11, no issues found on them. I talked to the maintenance officer about it as I thought it could become an problem, he didn't agree with me and told me to forget about it. When I went to the staff meeting the next day I brought it up to the Colonel and he agreed with me, so we inspected the other 45 planes in the fleet and found 7 with the same problem. If we didn't find and fix the problem there could of been a major disaster. The Colonel informed higher headquarters what we found and they sent out notices Air Force wide to all units with C130's to inspect them, not sure how many more they found, but I did hear there was a bunch of them. Morale here is, ask questions about a problem, gather info and let the powers to be decide, small or large if there's a problem. The percentage of planes that had the problem was less the 1%, sometimes it's not the number, but the issue, safety and who it affects So I'll keep asking this question about sprocket failures, not rust as you keep bringing up and since we're talking numbers I've heard from 5 more who have had failures, 1 of them twice.

So please enjoy these other forums!:banghead::banghead::banghead:

1-http://www.can-amforum.com/
2-http://www.maverickforums.net/,
3-http://www.can-amtalk.com/forums/
4-http://www.commanderforums.org/
5-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/
6-http://www.canamspyderforums.com/forums/
7-http://www.spydertalk.com/

ENJOY

Thank You for your service. As a Marine I rode on C-130's many times and I am glad for your villagence or I might have been one of the 1% that died.

 

[Road-Kill]

The front sprocket is well coated. Any iron oxide dust is the result of splines material being removed and deposited on the face of the pulley. If the sprocket face is red with iron oxide dust, its time to pull and replace the sprocket. There have been NO cases where the iron oxide dust was present and the pulley was not far gone.

In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?

 

[Roadster Renovations]

In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?

Wow, that is a lot of red dust!
The way I see it you have two choices;
1. Ryde it like you stole it cause there isn't really a problem......:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:
or
2. Get it to dealer ASAP while accelerating very gently. Insist upon the Loctite 660 to be added in between the splines of the new sprocket.

I would not disturb the bolt for an inspection. I have seen less rust on sprockets that have completely grenaded, so you ain't got much spline left on that sprocket.

 

[Sarge707]

In response to your post I decided to remove the plastic cover and have a "looksee". (3-5mm hex bolts)(see picture)
Yes I have "red dust". I'm over 18,000 miles on my Spyder that I bought new this year.....trouble free.
Can I remove the one 16mm bolt without removing the belt to have an even closer "looksee"?
I'm making an appointment with my dealer tomorrow for the 18,000 mile service, I'll leave the cover off and ask his opinion as well.
If I do have sprocket wear.............will BRP replace it BEFORE it fails?

Just for comparison I reposted mine with 9,700 miles to compare? Yours seems about right considering Twice the mileage as mine?
Luckily the Spocket is only about $100 with New Nut and I think they come with the proper locktight already on the Bolt.