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Another overheated Spyder
- Thread starter Spanky
- Start date
Ken5517 / Wish Again
New member
you have to look at everything :chat:
Tripod
New member
Ken,
Have you pinned down why you were overheating? I think questions have been raised about altitude, temp and mods. What is your take on that?
Thanks in advance for any info,
Tripod :joke:
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
Not so Bro. I'm pretty sure the one that Granny posted had no mods either.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=117346&postcount=107
My guess is this is the problem.
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=123271&postcount=156
Same problem that the M109R had when it first came out. It was a fuel rail that was a little short and they didn't get a good clamp on it. The recall sent out a longer fuel rail and that fixed the problem.
CRUCIFIED
New member
That sounds about right. I have read many complaints about fuel/exhaust smell...I have the same problem.:dontknow:
Spanky
New member
Ken wasn't overheating, I chose the title because I didn't want to write FIRE in the title. It may have scared a lot of already paranoid people.
Exhaus Gasket Leakage and Melting Plastic
FYI. SpyderDeb was complaining of heat coming from the right side of the bike. There are no engine, intake or exhaust mod's save for wrapping of the exhaust system. I had heard what I suspected was an exhaust leak, so I tightened all 3 of the exhaust band clamps on the 2-in-to-1 collector. The bolts were tight on the cyclinder heads. Just before a road trip to ND last weekend, we stopped by a local :spyder:dealer to pick up the exhaust gaskets (the new part number - thanks SLF members) ordered.
By the time we had arrived in ND (about 240 miles), the heat was unbearable....a wimp I said. Until I got the bike apart - the entire exhaust gasket was missing from the right side. The temperature had gotten so hot above the joint area that the pastic cable shield (I had placed around the NMN lighting wires to the brake lights) had an 8" length melted off. That's just to the inside of her right thigh. The plastic had dripped down onto the exhaust spring on the right side which had caused me to investigate its source. So now I don't think she was a wimp after all.
I know the sound of a leaking exhaust gasket. Many on this SLF wouldn't have that experience and wouldn't know if/when to get it fixed.
This is hypothesis: If the exhaust gaskets are leaking, it may not be noticable as a problem by an owner; louder aftermarket exhaust may make audible detection of the leak nearly impossible. The failure mode for both of the small gaskets is to direct exhaust gases verticle from their respective locations. There are critical elements adjacent to both joints. On the right side is the fuel canister, the front of the fuel tank, and the fuel lines. On the left side is the front of the fuel tank. The right side comes from the rear cylinder and is only 12 - 14" away from the joint to the exhaust port. The left side comes from the front cylinder and is closer to 24" from joint to the exhaust port. Both joints are very plausible sources for concern.
Sidebar: Tousley Motorsports, White Bear Lake, MN, wanted to keep her bike for 1 1/2 weeks to make the repairs under warranty; they wouldn't make appointments - FIFO. To their defense, the :spyder:was not bought from them - cause they were sh..heads in the first place...oops, editorial comment.
Anyway, I paid for the parts and sure am glad I had the parts and the ability to make the repairs in a relatives garage.
Happy Trails!!
Wayne
FYI. SpyderDeb was complaining of heat coming from the right side of the bike. There are no engine, intake or exhaust mod's save for wrapping of the exhaust system. I had heard what I suspected was an exhaust leak, so I tightened all 3 of the exhaust band clamps on the 2-in-to-1 collector. The bolts were tight on the cyclinder heads. Just before a road trip to ND last weekend, we stopped by a local :spyder:dealer to pick up the exhaust gaskets (the new part number - thanks SLF members) ordered.
By the time we had arrived in ND (about 240 miles), the heat was unbearable....a wimp I said. Until I got the bike apart - the entire exhaust gasket was missing from the right side. The temperature had gotten so hot above the joint area that the pastic cable shield (I had placed around the NMN lighting wires to the brake lights) had an 8" length melted off. That's just to the inside of her right thigh. The plastic had dripped down onto the exhaust spring on the right side which had caused me to investigate its source. So now I don't think she was a wimp after all.
I know the sound of a leaking exhaust gasket. Many on this SLF wouldn't have that experience and wouldn't know if/when to get it fixed.
This is hypothesis: If the exhaust gaskets are leaking, it may not be noticable as a problem by an owner; louder aftermarket exhaust may make audible detection of the leak nearly impossible. The failure mode for both of the small gaskets is to direct exhaust gases verticle from their respective locations. There are critical elements adjacent to both joints. On the right side is the fuel canister, the front of the fuel tank, and the fuel lines. On the left side is the front of the fuel tank. The right side comes from the rear cylinder and is only 12 - 14" away from the joint to the exhaust port. The left side comes from the front cylinder and is closer to 24" from joint to the exhaust port. Both joints are very plausible sources for concern.
Sidebar: Tousley Motorsports, White Bear Lake, MN, wanted to keep her bike for 1 1/2 weeks to make the repairs under warranty; they wouldn't make appointments - FIFO. To their defense, the :spyder:was not bought from them - cause they were sh..heads in the first place...oops, editorial comment.
Anyway, I paid for the parts and sure am glad I had the parts and the ability to make the repairs in a relatives garage.
Happy Trails!!
Wayne
Tom in NM
New member
I agree with Ron . . . . (again) . . . .
. . . . this forum is a great place to share experiences, perspectives, information and ideas. But, when something happens like these fires, there is a chain of reporting that should happen. Perhaps we (this forum) can put together a list of things To-Do in case an event happens to you. We could also put together a list and documentation of things to do to perhaps prevent events from occurring. Since some of the things that happen are so rare and a lot of Spyder owners are new to this type of vehicle - I would think this would be useful to 99% of us. Think of it as an Earthquake or Hurricane Preparedness Plan, or even as a "Missing Manual" software product that goes into greater detail than the software's original documentation.
In the midst of an "event", it can be overwhelming and then panic and confusion can set in. But, you greatly increase your chances and competency if you have considered, planed, and practiced your response.
For example, just off the top of my head:
and so on . . . .
As far as preventative inspections go, we could also do a step by step of the areas that we feel are potential trouble areas with conditions to look for.
Since Spyders are assembled at the dealerships, despite all the instructions, there could be some significant variance that owners could check on. At the very least, inspections could catch a problem before it becomes worse ( say a broken cable tie or wires that are frayed ) AND set a baseline which would point out something that might be a problem and out of the ordinary.
For some people, given their years of experience, this is not needed, it is natural and second nature. But, there are a lot of Sypder owners that once the panels come off, do not know what to look for or even what they are looking at.
If there is interest and the forum feels it would be valuable, I would work on some of this and get with Lamont to figure out a way of doing it, if it can be.
A thread is a great way to communicate, but it can be difficult to sort through everything and distill it down to something to act on. Maybe, this approach would both help and prevent, as well as educate.
Tom
. . . . this forum is a great place to share experiences, perspectives, information and ideas. But, when something happens like these fires, there is a chain of reporting that should happen. Perhaps we (this forum) can put together a list of things To-Do in case an event happens to you. We could also put together a list and documentation of things to do to perhaps prevent events from occurring. Since some of the things that happen are so rare and a lot of Spyder owners are new to this type of vehicle - I would think this would be useful to 99% of us. Think of it as an Earthquake or Hurricane Preparedness Plan, or even as a "Missing Manual" software product that goes into greater detail than the software's original documentation.
In the midst of an "event", it can be overwhelming and then panic and confusion can set in. But, you greatly increase your chances and competency if you have considered, planed, and practiced your response.
For example, just off the top of my head:
In case of fire or you suspect a fire:
Protect yourself and passenger first. Act quickly.
If possible, pull off the roadway, away from traffic and other property that could ignite if the fire grows.
Call 911
Put out fire; if available, use a Class B Fire Extinguisher. Water and sand are alternatives.
If you are fearful of your personal safety or the fire is too big, move to a place of safety.
You may have no other alternative than to watch.
If possible and it can be safely done, keep the fire contained.
If possible and it can be safely done, take pictures to document the event.
Call your insurance company.
If not arranged by your insurance company or local authorities, call for towing.
The Police Report - what to expect.
Call for or arrange your transportation.
Later, if you suspect a Safety Defect:
Contact BRP: (phone #) (email address)
Contact NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration): 1 800 424-9393 (366-0123)
See Owner's Manual, page 72
Protect yourself and passenger first. Act quickly.
If possible, pull off the roadway, away from traffic and other property that could ignite if the fire grows.
Call 911
Put out fire; if available, use a Class B Fire Extinguisher. Water and sand are alternatives.
If you are fearful of your personal safety or the fire is too big, move to a place of safety.
You may have no other alternative than to watch.
If possible and it can be safely done, keep the fire contained.
If possible and it can be safely done, take pictures to document the event.
Call your insurance company.
If not arranged by your insurance company or local authorities, call for towing.
The Police Report - what to expect.
Call for or arrange your transportation.
Later, if you suspect a Safety Defect:
Contact BRP: (phone #) (email address)
Contact NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration): 1 800 424-9393 (366-0123)
See Owner's Manual, page 72
and so on . . . .
As far as preventative inspections go, we could also do a step by step of the areas that we feel are potential trouble areas with conditions to look for.
Since Spyders are assembled at the dealerships, despite all the instructions, there could be some significant variance that owners could check on. At the very least, inspections could catch a problem before it becomes worse ( say a broken cable tie or wires that are frayed ) AND set a baseline which would point out something that might be a problem and out of the ordinary.
For some people, given their years of experience, this is not needed, it is natural and second nature. But, there are a lot of Sypder owners that once the panels come off, do not know what to look for or even what they are looking at.
If there is interest and the forum feels it would be valuable, I would work on some of this and get with Lamont to figure out a way of doing it, if it can be.
A thread is a great way to communicate, but it can be difficult to sort through everything and distill it down to something to act on. Maybe, this approach would both help and prevent, as well as educate.
Tom
Ken5517 / Wish Again
New member
This is why I try not to speculate and clearly said that I did not know if it was true - it was a conversation that was told to me. I never should have brought it up.
Sorry :dontknow:
Spanky
New member
I know one thing for sure.
I will not let my wife ride her Spyder until after I have pulled all of the panels and perform a satisfactory thorough exam of anything that may be suspect.
I will probably wrap the pipes while I am there.
The above mentioned exhaust gasket theory seems to be the most viable so far and a relatively easy fix for peace of mind. I know it may not be the cause but it won't hurt to replace the gaskets.
I will not let my wife ride her Spyder until after I have pulled all of the panels and perform a satisfactory thorough exam of anything that may be suspect.
I will probably wrap the pipes while I am there.
The above mentioned exhaust gasket theory seems to be the most viable so far and a relatively easy fix for peace of mind. I know it may not be the cause but it won't hurt to replace the gaskets.
Spanky
New member
Ken,
I don't see any reason to be sorry. This kind of discussion helps dispell any myths so we can focus on the facts.:thumbup:
Firefly
Active member
While I agree the Gaskets could be an issue - these fires must have had fuel getting somewhere where it didn't belong in order to burn to the degree that some did.
The one guy had flames shooting 20' or so into the air.
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
I'm on my third set of y-gaskets and yes it gets real hot when they leak
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7267
or are half gone like my last set
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=122036&postcount=19
I think it's unlikely that this is the cause of the fires we've seen to date. Near as I can tell from the pics and descriptions of the fires it seems that they are starting near the top of the Spyder near the gas tank.
I rode from Sturgis to San Diego with a shot gasket in 100+ temps without a fire. The more I look into this the more I think it's fuel that is leaking somewhere and then is igniting from the extreme heat under the cowl. It's just a guess at this point but I've had gaskets that leaked about as bad as they could for hundreds of miles in 100 degree temps and have yet to have a fire. That's what I'm going by at this point. It will be great if/when BRP nails down the cause of this.
I still say the most likely cause is this http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=123271&postcount=156
Tom in NM
New member
Really worth checking . . . . .
While that could be one of the sources of the fuel, perhaps an occasional sparking/arcing from some bad or damaged wiring could be one of the possible sources of ignition.
While heat has its role, gas on a hot surface will usually vaporize, not burst into flame. The resulting vapor ( or liquid ) coming in contact with a source of ignition ( open flame, spark, or even static discharge ) is where the fire "begins".
You can fix one, but the other one will still be there. Inspect for both fuel and ignition source. In general, the fuel source is the easiest to locate.
Tom
While that could be one of the sources of the fuel, perhaps an occasional sparking/arcing from some bad or damaged wiring could be one of the possible sources of ignition.
While heat has its role, gas on a hot surface will usually vaporize, not burst into flame. The resulting vapor ( or liquid ) coming in contact with a source of ignition ( open flame, spark, or even static discharge ) is where the fire "begins".
You can fix one, but the other one will still be there. Inspect for both fuel and ignition source. In general, the fuel source is the easiest to locate.
Tom
Last edited:
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
I don't know anything about the ground wire fix doing anything other than grounding the coil pack so there was no RF messing up the signal to the computer. There's no mention of arcing that I've read on the boards. Did I miss a post about that?
Ken5517 / Wish Again
New member
Over My Head
ataDude
Mod Maniac
No, you're on the mark. The arcing had to do with bad plug wires and boots.
The coil ground fix was to eliminate interference with the SE's processors for shifting, or the lack thereof.
.
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