2012 RT SE5 starts OK then shuts down when 1st or R selected - ideas?

[bluesmike]

Ok so I did something questionable... Bought a 2012 RT SE5 from a shop that took it in on trade. It's across the country at my Daughter's house in Bremerton, WA. I'm an hour west of Boston. It idles fine (now that she replaced the battery) but when she shifts it into gear it shuts down and stays in that gear, either 1st or R. No errors on the dash at all. She has to manually shift it back to neutral with a wrench. Shipping company is picking it up this week to bring it to me. So that gives me a week or two to brainstorm and get a checklist in place. I'm thinking I need to start with the gearbox position sensor and work out from there. Thoughts?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ok so I did something questionable... Bought a 2012 RT SE5 from a shop that took it in on trade. It's across the country at my Daughter's house in Bremerton, WA. I'm an hour west of Boston. It idles fine (now that she replaced the battery) but when she shifts it into gear it shuts down and stays in that gear, either 1st or R. No errors on the dash at all. She has to manually shift it back to neutral with a wrench. Shipping company is picking it up this week to bring it to me. So that gives me a week or two to brainstorm and get a checklist in place. I'm thinking I need to start with the gearbox position sensor and work out from there. Thoughts?

Well if she DIDN'T charge the battery - that may be the problem ..... How did She figure out " how to shift with a wrench " ?????? ..... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Bfromla]

:welcome: Run the vin# with a dealer, hopefully they can give you some history of what has been done; yes, maybe it's a sensor, but also maybe it's a clutch problem? :gaah: :dontknow: Letting it idle longer to warm the oil can help (check oil level too), engine shutdown is usually to prevent damage from whatever it thinks is wrong. Good luck. opcorn:

 

[fatboy]

if she presses on brake pedal it should go into n and start

 

[bluesmike]

Well if she DIDN'T charge the battery - that may be the problem ..... How did She figure out " how to shift with a wrench " ?????? ..... good luck ....Mike :thumbup:

It's a fresh brand-new battery. I'll have her double check the charge level though. As for shifting with the 13mm wrench... she read a post on FB on how to shift it back into Neutral if stuck in 1st or Reverse. She's a mechanical engineer and her husband is a robotics engineer. They've got pretty solid troubleshooting skills. But if I leave it at her place too long, I'm afraid I'll get it back looking like some kind of Transformer or something.

 

[bluesmike]

if she presses on brake pedal it should go into n and start

*it should* ...but doesn't. She has to manually shift to neutral with a 13mm wrench. Otherwise, it starts in gear with the clutch engaged and lurches forward or backwards depending on the gear its stuck in.

 

[bluesmike]

:welcome: Run the vin# with a dealer, hopefully they can give you some history of what has been done; yes, maybe it's a sensor, but also maybe it's a clutch problem? :gaah: :dontknow: Letting it idle longer to warm the oil can help (check oil level too), engine shutdown is usually to prevent damage from whatever it thinks is wrong. Good luck. opcorn:

I'll reach out to a dealer tomorrow and see what info they can provide. Hoping it's something on the more inexpensive side, but I am prepared for the worst.

 

[fatboy]

*it should* ...but doesn't. She has to manually shift to neutral with a 13mm wrench. Otherwise, it starts in gear with the clutch engaged and lurches forward or backwards depending on the gear its stuck in.

I didn't see that in your post, that's important info to help figure out the problem.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'll reach out to a dealer tomorrow and see what info they can provide. Hoping it's something on the more inexpensive side, but I am prepared for the worst.

Thanks for the info ..... If this was bought at a Dealer, then how did She get it home?? Mike :thumbup:

 

[bluesmike]

The dealer delivered it for me. They were up front that there was "an issue shifting" but they wouldn't troubleshoot since it's older than 10 years. I bought it as a project bike and as a way around the wife's strict no two wheel policy.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Hi bluesmike. Putting all of the information together now, it is clearly a clutch problem. Not a sensor, not the battery. That transmission uses a centrifugal clutch unit, that applies the clamping force to the clutch pack as engine RPMs increase. It idles fine when in Neutral. However, as soon as it goes in gear, or if it is started in gear with the brake on, it lurches and dies. The clutch is dragging. Two things - either the Wave Spring in the centrifugal unit, or the clutch pack itself got super burnt up. Clutch damage on that transmission typically occurs because the RPMs are not kept high enough when riding or shifting.

It’ll be a complete teardown of the clutch to zero in on what’s wrong. Get yourself the shop manual and train yourself up on how the clutch and hydraulic shifting system operate. It’s an OK DIY project if you have done anything like that before. But truthfully, why in the world did you buy a 14 year old Spyder with “shifting problems”, all the way on the other side of the country? If this is for you, you couldn’t find anything newer and closer? Never mind. It’s your business. Good luck.

PS. One minor fine point. When starting any Spyder when it’s in gear with your foot on the brake, the engine has to start first. Then, AFTER hydraulic oil pressure builds up, it will shift to Neutral. Hydraulic oil pressure does the actual shifting. Any lurching and stalling clearly indicates it’s a clutch problem.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hi Mike. Putting all of the information together now, it is clearly a clutch problem. Not a sensor, not the battery. That transmission uses a centrifugal clutch unit, that applies the clamping force to the clutch pack as engine RPMs increase. It idles fine when in Neutral. However, as soon as it goes in gear, or if it is started in gear with the brake on, it lurches and dies. The clutch is dragging. Two things - either the Wave Spring in the centrifugal unit, or the clutch pack itself got super burnt up. Clutch damage on that transmission typically occurs because the RPMs are not kept high enough when riding or shifting.

It’ll be a complete tear down of the clutch to zero in on what’s wrong. Get yourself the shop manual and train yourself up on how the clutch and hydraulic shifting system operate. It’s an OK DYI project if you have done anything like that before. But truthfully, why in the world did you buy a 14 year old Spyder with “shifting problems”, all the way on the other side of the country? If this is for you, you couldn’t find anything newer and closer? Good luck.

Thanks for your assessment .... I suspected there was a likelihood of a Clutch issue, but I wanted it to be a battery issue. So getting the least expensive possibility out of the way first seemed prudent. .... These Spyders have sooooooo many issues related to low battery power, I guess I wanted this one to be that :dontknow:..... At least He now knows what the issue is .....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Elwood58]

The hydraulic control module is pretty sensitive to low oil condition. That model year twin goes through a half quart every 1200 miles or so. I would be tempted to add some oil and see if things change at all.

 

[bluesmike]

But truthfully, why in the world did you buy a 14 year old Spyder with “shifting problems”, all the way on the other side of the country? If this is for you, you couldn’t find anything newer and closer? Never mind. It’s your business. Good luck.

Honestly - the price was right. I contemplated having it repaired there and flying out to ride back. But I'd rather do it myself. A clutch job is well within my skill set and I look forward to digging into it.

 

[PMK]

In recent times, one of the other Spyder repair focused internet groups, has seen similar issues.
While it would be truly awesome if adding oil, or unsticking the clutch plates resolve it, those other owners found the clutch assemblies failed. The failures polluted the engine oil with metallic debris. Not exactly sure where these owners ended up in regards to resolving the failures.

Words they posted indicated a redesigned lubrication system for the wet clutch, requiring the newest updated parts, along with any failed parts.
Sorry I do not have more details, I just glanced over the info they posted.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

In recent times, one of the other Spyder repair focused internet groups, has seen similar issues.
While it would be truly awesome if adding oil, or unsticking the clutch plates resolve it, those other owners found the clutch assemblies failed. The failures polluted the engine oil with metallic debris. Not exactly sure where these owners ended up in regards to resolving the failures.

Words they posted indicated a redesigned lubrication system for the wet clutch, requiring the newest updated parts, along with any failed parts.
Sorry I do not have more details, I just glanced over the info they posted.

Right. A new clutch was designed and put out there in 2013. Replacement is applicable to all 2008 - 2012 Spyders. Service Bulletin 2012-7. Unfortunately, one of the few bulletins I was never able to get my hands on. Changed the material, thickness, and number of disks and plates. Supplied a longer oil spray nozzle. Also needed a different spacer kit, that typically has to be ordered separately. It also helps to get a 2013 or newer shop manual, for the 998 machine, in order to get the correct replacement instructions. Otherwise, a 2012 manual just talks about the old clutch. Anyone wanting to change out their oil spray nozzle alone, can order the 2013 or newer part in the system. It's longer. Easy to change. This thread pretty much describes all of the changes.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44886-Clutch-kit-for-09-se5

 

[PMK]

Right. A new clutch was designed and put out there in 2013. Replacement is applicable to all 2008 - 2012 Spyders. Service Bulletin 2012-7. Unfortunately, one of the few bulletins I was never able to get my hands on. Changed the material, thickness, and number of disks and plates. Supplied a longer oil spray nozzle. Also needed a different spacer kit, that typically has to be ordered separately. It also helps to get a 2013 or newer shop manual, for the 998 machine, in order to get the correct replacement instructions. Otherwise, a 2012 manual just talks about the old clutch. Anyone wanting to change out their oil spray nozzle alone, can order the 2013 or newer part in the system. It's longer. Easy to change. This thread pretty much describes all of the changes.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?44886-Clutch-kit-for-09-se5

Sadly, a few photos indicated clutch basket failure where the basket fingers broke off. Pretty ugly, but repairable with enough time and money.

Hopefully this Spyder just needs the clutch plates unclamped and freed up.