• There were many reasons for the change of the site software, the biggest was security. The age of the old software also meant no server updates for certain programs. There are many benefits to the new software, one of the biggest is the mobile functionality. Ill fix up some stuff in the coming days, we'll also try to get some of the old addons back or the data imported back into the site like the garage. To create a thread or to reply with a post is basically the same as it was in the prior software. The default style of the site is light colored, but i temporarily added a darker colored style, to change you can find a link at the bottom of the site.

Trying to decide if I want to start doing my own oil changes - what should I budget?

As for using ramps or a jack, it was not necessary. I pulled each tire up on a 2x6 and it was high enough, using a low profile oil drain pain that I sourced from the Dollar Tree.

Sounds like great news, thanks! I did buy some ramps, but also bought a low-profile motorcycle/ATV drain pan, so may not need the ramps for future changes (I will probably use them this time so I can see what I'm doing better.) Regarding the plugs, I am going to replace the OEM plugs with the magnetic plugs in Ron's kit, and I will be sure not to overtighten them. It's interesting that the dealers can crank them so hard they need to be broken loose, but several of you are warning me not to overtighten for fear of stripping.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
$400.00 for an oil change! That is incredible! They are basically telling the customer that they don't want to do oil changes at all.

We get Spyders in all the time with way overtightened drain plugs. Sometimes we spend a fair amount of time trying to get them out without damage. Each time you overtighten a steel plug into an aluminum case you stretch those aluminum threads. Eventually, the threads will come out with the plug. We've put a few helicoils in engine cases. There is absolutely no reason for this. Snug with a 3/8" stubby ratchet is your friend. Highly recommended.

It's encouraging to see more owners do their own work. Back in the day, this was much more common, I think. Even though prices were much more reasonable. The motorcycle community used to be a brotherhood. These days it's gone corporate and revenue seems to be the overriding, driving force. It is a culture lost.
 
.

I don't know if this is a problem with the newer :spyder2:s but;
I used a Dremel tool and opened up the two holes for the drain plugs in the plastic pans. Much less messy...........
 
I like punching that 'like' button to a good comment, but sometimes a comment needs to see a "like" comment. Ron has some good ones for sure.
 
You probably already have the basic procedures worked out. I will just post a few comments that might help. I never use ramps for anything, because the flat concrete floor in my shop will just let them slide unless they are secured. I jack anything that I am working on up, then sometimes push the ramps I have under the tires and let it back down on them. Many times, I push the ramps under the tires backwards, depending on the job, to allow more working room. I have 2 adjustable lift floor jacks with extensions long enough to work on a tall truck. With the extension removed, the floor jacks will roll under most any front end. Once the front is lifted, jack stands go under it. For the rear of the Spyder, I use a scissor jack with extensions on top of the flat plate to catch the frame, and I avoid mashing any wiring or parts that hang below the frame rails. Jacking it up like that allows plenty of room to slide a full-size drain pan under the bike. My scissor jack has a long 3/8 socket pinned to the jacking bolt and will run up and down with the electric impact. I have also cut out larger holes in the plastic under the case. Maybe the plastic is to keep the hot engine parts from contacting dry grass, or maybe it is just to collect mud and road grime, between the plastic and the case.

Got one of the blank pages in the back of the manual with a list of plug sizes and a few notes of what to put on the floor in reach before I get my ancient self down there to do the job. I do not use the OEM O-rings to seal the plugs. I use the upper O-rings where needed, but the lower O-rings where the plugs contact the case are sealed off with the sandwich type fiber washers used by almost all cars for the oil drain plugs. The right size is available for both the plugs on the Spyder, and you can get dozens of them for a few bucks. They are more dependable than the little O-rings and won't get squeezed out of the recess or pinched. Easy to find on the web and most discount auto places have them. The fiber washers are cheap enough to just toss them every time and put new ones on. Like many who already replied, I do not torque the plugs, just snug them with a shorty rachet. If it leaks at all, there will be evidence on the clean concrete under the parking spot. Never had one leak after many oil changes.

First oil change might take a half hour, but after the first one, maybe 15 to 20 minutes time of actual working on it, not including time to just let it drain with the plug out while you go do something else or nothing at all. Also, keep track of exactly how much oil it takes to refill after a complete oil and filter change. Write that amount down in the page of the manual with your other notes. I have mine figured to bring the oil level to about 3/4 way between the low oil mark and the full mark on the dipstick. It is not full quarts and I measure the last partial quart going in with a kitchen measuring cup. If you know how much goes back in, you don't need to keep checking the oil as you refill to get it right where you want it. Just put the required amount in and check it next time you ride. It will be right where you want it, when checking using the correct procedure for dry sump.

I also ignore the oil change recommendations in the manual and change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles like I have always done for 50 years or more on bikes. I keep cases of the proper oil and filters on a high shelf in the shop. No need to go hunting through local stores for them. Oil and filters are cheap, new engines are not. Going less than recommended miles between changes can only help, especially in very warm area where the bikes are run summer and winter, in temperatures near 100 F in summer.

The more times you change the oil, the easier it will become, like anything else you do. Practice makes perfect.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Awesome post, Gwolf, thanks!

I jack anything that I am working on up, then sometimes push the ramps I have under the tires and let it back down on them. Many times I push the ramps under the tires backwards, depending on the job, to allow more working room. I have 2 adjustable lift floor jacks with extensions long enough to work on a tall truck. With the extension removed, the floor jacks will roll under most any front end. Once the front is lifted, jack stands go under it.

I had it up once for the cat delete install on some backwards ramps with no issues, then jacked the back up and built a crossed wood stack to support the rear wheel, then lowered on the wheel onto it. All was very stable. You can find pics in my "how to" cat delete post. I'm comfortable with that procedure.

I have also cut out larger holes in the plastic under the case. Maybe the plastic is to keep the hot engine parts from contacting dry grass, or maybe it is just to collect mud and road grime, between the plastic and the case.
Seems like many have done this, I will take a look when I get under there. I also want to expand the floor pan heat escape on right side while down there.

Got one of the blank pages in the back of the manual with a list of plug sizes and a few notes of what to put on the floor in reach before I get my ancient self down there, to do the job. I do not use the oem o-rings, to seal the plugs. I use the upper o-rings where needed, but the lower o-rings where the plugs contact the case are sealed off with the sandwich type fiber washers used by almost all all cars for the oil drain plugs. The right size is available for both the plugs on the Spyder, and you can get dozens of them for a few bucks. They are more dependable than the little o-rings and won't get squeezed out of the recess or pinched. Easy to find on the web and most discount auto places have them. The fiber washers are cheap enough to just toss them every time and put new ones on.

BajaRon's kit comes with replacement rings, which I intend to use each time. I assume he will have some sort of notes as to which rings go where. I don't hate your fiber ring idea though.

Like many who already replied, I do not torque the plugs, just snug them with a shorty rachet. If it leaks at all, there will be evidence on the clean conrete under the parking spot. Never had one leak after many oil changes.
I don't have a shorty, but it's an OLD craftsman that's only maybe 10" long. I'll be gentle.

Also, keep track of exactly how much oil it takes to refill after a complete oil and filter change. Write that amount down in the page of the manual with your other notes. I have mine figured to bring the oil level to about 3/4 way between the low oil mark and the full mark on the dipstick. It is not full quarts and I measure the last partial quart going in with a kitchen measuring cup. If you know how much goes back in, you don't need to keep checking the oil as you refill to get it right where you want it. Just put the required amount in and check it next time you ride. It will be right where you want it, when checking using the correct procedure for dry sump.
It seems like it should take exactly what the manual calls for, or the same as everyone else has figured out. (which is .... how much????) Why would it not be consistent among all our bikes? I plan on putting 4.75 qts in, taking a ride for 10 mins, then assessing how much more to add, little by little. (service manual says 5.0 quarts total for my semi-auto SE6)

I also ignore the oil change recommendations in the manual and change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles like I have always done for 50 years or more on bikes. I keep cases of the proper oil and filters on a high shelf in the shop. No need to go hunting through local stores for them. Oil and filters are cheap, new engines are not. Going less than recommended miles between changes can only help, especially in very warm area where the bikes are run summer and winter, in temperatures near 100 F in summer.
Yeah, Me too sort of, since it's hot down here, and I ride hot. I'm already at about 6200 miles since my last change Jan 31st, so I think it's time.
 
I see that in these videos and the service manual, the engine should be "warm" when changing the oil. What do y'all do exactly do get it somewhere between "cold" and "too hot"? I know the temp gauge on the dash is intake air temp, not oil temp gauge. So what exactly is your process to make it "warm"? (Shoot, it's 102 in the shade today... is that warm enough? :dontknow:)
 
Last edited:
I see that in these videos and the service manual, the engine should be "warm" when changing the oil. What do y'all do exactly do get it somewhere between "cold" and "too hot"? I know the temp gauge on the dash is intake air temp, not oil temp gauge. So what exactly is your process to make it "warm"? (Shoot, it's 102 in the shade today... is that warm enough? :dontknow:)

If it gets up to 180 degrees F, then you're good! You can change it without starting it! :ohyea: :roflblack: :roflblack: :2thumbs:

MHO Bill :thumbup:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
the reason to change hot is to get all the particles suspended in oil

... and to have it less viscosity and flow better, I know; but I'm wondering how you get it there. I've now found some other threads in the meantime that talk about taking a 10-15 minute ride, or letting it idle until the fans cycle twice, etc.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If it gets up to 180 degrees F, then you're good! You can change it without starting it! :ohyea: :roflblack: :roflblack: :2thumbs:

MHO Bill :thumbup:


I think it feels like that in the sun! :shocked: But seriously, where did you get 180° F?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
....and to have it less viscosity and flow better, I know ... but I'm wondering how you get it there. I've now found some other threads in the meantime that talk about taking a 10-15 minute ride, or letting it idle until the fans cycle twice, etc.

Don't let it idle until the fans cycle. Idling is not good for the engine. Granted, this applies mostly to repetitive sessions. But fans cycling simply means your coolant is at operating temperature and has little to do with oil temperature. The oil doesn't need to be that hot. But circulated through the transmission and at least warm is ideal.

I don't have a shorty, but it's an OLD craftsman that's only maybe 10" long. I'll be gentle.

Just choke up on it and you'll get the same effect.
 
So walk me through the “with a shorty”. So choke up on it and crank it pretty hard, or just try to get it fairly snug? I understand the principle of leverage with longer wrench, but I’m also fairly certain I could over torque these with anything that provided more leverage than a regular screwdriver. It all seems very subjective. I’m tempted to get an actual torque wrench to get a feel for it.
 
So walk me through the “with a shorty”. So choke up on it and crank it pretty hard, or just try to get it fairly snug? I understand the principle of leverage with longer wrench, but I’m also fairly certain I could over torque these with anything that provided more leverage than a regular screwdriver. It all seems very subjective. I’m tempted to get an actual torque wrench to get a feel for it.

My experience is that torque wrenches and drain plugs create more issues than they resolve. Don't over think this. A shorty or choking up on a longer wrench to simulate a stubby gives you a great amount of feel. You can feel when the drain plug begins to bite into the threads as the bolt head flange begins to engage with the sealing washer. The resistance will increase sharply and you can easily tell that it will take significantly more strength to turn the wrench further. That's when you quit.

It can be hard for some to resist additional tightening. People have this inherent fear of the drain plug falling out. The feeling is that if tight is good, tighter is better. Not in this case.

Of course you should take the bike for a ride after an oil change and check for any leaks in drain plugs or filter caps. (This is one reason you want to clean off all areas where oil may have remained.) If you don't see any, then you're good for the duration.

I've removed drain plugs from Spyders where there was no washer. It never leaked. We have seen drain plugs with 2 washers. (Be sure you remove the old one before reassembly as the old one can stick to the case.) Those were leaking a very small amount of oil.
 
Last edited:
Allen42 - the crankcase never takes exactly what the dealer or manual says it should take. When you drain the old oil out, you never get every drop of it out. There are galleries and low spots in the sump that will hold a certain amount of oil. There is also an oil film on the entire inside of the engine. None of that left in oil is taken into account by the oil capacity stated. if you fill a brand new, dry engine, it might take about the stated amount. If the engine has already had oil in it and run some miles, the amount stated to fill the engine will over-fill it.

Also, I do not run the oil level right up to the top (FULL) mark on the dipstick. I run it about 3/4 up to the full mark. I like to leave a little room for some expansion and not top it right up to the full mark. It is about as bad to run one over-filled as it is to run low. Also remember that the new filter is dry and empty when you put it in and the oil level will not read true until the new filter has been pumped full of oil and all the air bubbles have been pushed through the system until they can vent out. That is why you need to know how much oil to put in before you start. It might take one or two changes, with slight adjustments before you figure out the exact amount you need. Once you get it figured out, write it down, and it will never change.

Different year models or series with the same engine, listed as 1330 CC, etc. may not all have the same exact set up for measuring oil level. Some slight difference it the length of the dipstick or maybe the dipstick tube can make a difference. I don't trust just putting in what the manual says anyway. The manuals are copy and paste from year to year, and parts of them have been found to be wrong. You would be safer to figure out how much oil it takes to get to where you want it to be on the dipstick and stay with that.


Oil temperature don't matter much. Drain it when you come back from a ride. It will be at operating temperture with out any need to idle the engine. If it takes you 15 or 20 minutes to get it up on jacks and jackstands and you want to be sure yoiu get most of the suspended particles out, the oil will still be plenty hot to flow easy, just start the engine for maybe 1 minute to stir the oil and then pull the plugs. Most of the particles are going to be in the lower sump anyway and will come out.
 
Last edited:
I think it feels like that in the sun! :shocked: But seriously, where did you get 180° F?

A great deal of engines I've worked on over the years had water thermostats that opened at 180 degrees. If the engine is at operating temp, your oil is plenty warm enough for changing. "old school theory" :thumbup: Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So walk me through the “with a shorty”. So choke up on it and crank it pretty hard, or just try to get it fairly snug? I understand the principle of leverage with longer wrench, but I’m also fairly certain I could over torque these with anything that provided more leverage than a regular screwdriver. It all seems very subjective. I’m tempted to get an actual torque wrench to get a feel for it.

Unfortunately knowing exactly how hard to tighten threaded fasteners is directly related to how many you've stripped.
 
Unfortunately knowing exactly how hard to tighten threaded fasteners is directly related to how many you've stripped.

Not really... it could be based on 60+ years of pulling wrenches with close to 20 years of that in a machine shop, pulling click stop torque wrenches.

You have to put a lot of pressure on most bolts to strip them. Not so much on plugs and bolts threaded into Aluminum. Learn to resist that last 1/2 turn to seat it. Stop when the plug base seats down on the case. Keep in mind while you are tightening down, that the cases are made of a soft metal, and if you gall the threads, you may have to drill it out next time it has to be removed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Agreed. They are not minions. But we kid each other about it. I have special people working as a team. It's more like family than a job. We each appreciate all of our customers. They are special people too.

I could not agree more. I was just at his shop getting some work done and Ron and his staff couldn’t have been more helpful and professional if they tried. I highly recommend his shop for any Spyder related maintenance needs..!
 
Back
Top