Red Dust of Death Recall???? Front Sprocket Recall - FINALLY....

[Mikey]

Original recall letter is dated 26 May 2022. The new sprocket was done today 23 May 2023. WOW lightning fast "Sarcasm".
I asked if they changed the setting on the belt (yep, they said, according to specs). I will have to readjust it now down to a lower setting.

When I got the paperwork for the completed job (the rep said that according to BRP the Loctite had to set for 2 hours). I said ok, and walked a short way to a hamburger place and killed some time (1 hour and 50 minutes close enough to 2 hours).

This cycle shop does not have much in the way of Spyders or Rykers. Only 6 new ones on the floor. I hope the tech is trained on Spyders.

I asked for pictures of the sprocket. They are shown below:

View attachment 202832 A little chewed up on the lower right side of pic

View attachment 202833 Again showing it a little chewed up on the lower right side of pic

View attachment 202834 This is interesting, a chunk of the outside of the sprocket is gone. I do not know what happened.

My bet is the puller they used to get your sprocket off broke that chunk off.:2thumbs:

 

[Gwolf]

Got another letter on the Front Pulley Recall today. Letter is from the nearest dealership, where I purchased the 2019 F3-S new. I called them after the first letter and they seemed thoroughly confused. They wanted me to bring it in and let them inspect it, but did not have the new pulley to replace the OEM pulley. I refused to take it in, since they could not possibly repair it without the proper parts. That was back in 2022. They told me to call back in March or April, which I did, and they still did not have the parts to replace the OEM defective parts.

New letter just came today August 24, 2023. I will call them again tomorrow and ask if the have the Recall Replacement pulley, and ask them some questions to confirm it is actually the final solution. If it checks out, I will take the Spyder down there on the trailer, get the replacement pulley, then load it back on the trailer, and bring it back to my shop, where it will sit for the specified curing time on which ever Locktite they used.

I have copies of all the recall info, including the DOT recall letter, and the data sheets on the 603 and 609 Loctite, which list the specified curing times.

If they cannot provide the information, or won't provide the information, They are not getting the Spyder until they do.

 

[Gwolf]

Update- I have talked to the Service Advisor at the dealership. They can get the new parts......... final solution, silver pulley, with screw and washer (correct part numbers).

They don't have one in stock, but have put me in the system to get the recall work done. They are ordering the parts and supplies needed, and will call me when they get it all set up. Looks like some time in the Middle of September for the install date. The service advisor said it will take maybe an hour, then it will be loaded back on my trailer to complete the curing time for the Locktite. I will leave it on the trailer and back the trailer under the shelter on the side of my shop for the recommended curing time specified on the Locktite Product Data Sheet. The service advisor was helpful with all the information I requested and has put the parts and supplies needed on order.

 

[carbonation]

Dealer finally has one sprocket in.
My appointment is Sept.8 .

 

[mikthebik]

I have my appoinment next Wed. 9/30 for my 2015 F3S. Been waiting a couple of months for the dealer's one Can Am mechanic, Herm, who has been a friend to our vintage Japanese MC group for years. I'll be asking him about the loctite and cure time. The service manager indicated a fix and ride out time of a couple hours, but will keep it overnight if I would prefer. I'll consult with Herm, who's a very detailed and conservative individual, and follow his advice. I suspect I'll have the wife pick me up and take me back next day. FYI, they've had a couple of 2015s that they've had to sawzall the sprockets to remove. My original sprocket (red dust of death detected) was replaced 3500 miles ago, just after purchase, with the white one at 18,3K and Loctite moly paste used on the splines. Should be an easy removal. Next up is scheduling the 2018 RTL. Its sprocket area looks clean, so I can wait for Herm, who typically has a 2 month backlog for non emergency work.

 

[StickerPatch]

Just rec'd the Sept 2022 recall as the July 2023.. Is this a fix of what's failed i.e. Red Dust?? Or refit all??

 

[Gwolf]

Just rec'd the Sept 2022 recall as the July 2023.. is this a fix what's failed i.e. Red Dust?? Or refit all??

It should be the pulley recall, whether it has failed or not. You have to call a local dealer and see if they have or can order the new pulley, final solution. Some dealers have been doing a temporary fix by replacing the OEM pulley with another OEM pulley, but if your OEM pulley is not indicating that it will fail soon, there is no sense getting it replaced with another OEM pulley. Call your dealership of choice and arrange for them to order the parts for the final replacement pulley or if they have the parts in stock, to set up a date to put it on. The dealerships should be able to order the final replacement pulley and get it in a reasonable time by now.

 

[FalconAF]

I will NEVER buy another Can-Am or BRP vehicle again. Why?

Bought a 2018 Spyder RTL 3 years ago and was able to make one long-distance round trip 10-day road trip with it before COVID shut everything down. Then got the "Spline/Pulley" SAFETY recall notice not long after that (as in "You could get killed if you keep riding your Spyder without getting the SAFETY recall fixed first!"). Local dealer I bought the Spyder from said they couldn't get the replacement parts due to "supply shortages", and seeing as I wasn't going on any "far away from home" trips due to COVID, I really didn't need the OEM replacement done either. Just "sit tight" until they can get the fully functional replacement parts from the supply chain.

So in January 2023 this year I called the dealer back because I had scheduled a couple long-range extended road trips this summer. They STILL told me THEN they couldn't get the recall parts but would have them by April and THEY WOULD CALL ME BACK THEN to make an appointment for the fix. They NEVER called me back even as of today (AUGUST 29, 2023)...but that hadn't concerned me since April, because...

In February I was diagnosed with bladder cancer and had short-notice bladder surgery early March, followed by a 6-week chemo regime. Most of May and June I couldn't have ridden even if I wanted to. Had numerous follow-ups scheduled through July, so all road trips had already been cancelled. The dealer STILL hadn't called me back, but at the time getting my Spyder recall fixed was not at the top of my Priority List with all the medical stuff, so I didn't call and "pester" them about it either. I subsequently got schedule for more follow-ups with the possibility of needing more surgery in October now.

And 4 days ago, BRP sends me a REMINDER email saying "We notice you haven't had the Safety Recall service done on your Spyder yet. Please contact your dealer to schedule the service as soon as possible." Which sounded like an excellent idea to me since I have recovered enough from all my previous treatments and could ride the Spyder to/from the dealer now for the service. So I'm thinking, "Let's get it done in case I have to get new treatments in a month or so that would prevent any riding THEN again." So....

TODAY I called the dealer back to see about getting my appointment for the recall fix. Figured I should (and by NOW, COULD) get it done before any new surgery (if needed) because I might just end up selling the Spyder if I can't take reasonably long(er) road trips with it anymore due to future medical issues (and who would want to buy my used Spyder if it STILL had an UNSERVICED SAFETY RECALL from an entire YEAR AGO).

Here's what I was told by my Dealer TODAY :helpsmilie:

"There are STILL more than 20 people on the waiting list before you. We can't get enough replacement parts to service all of them yet. BRP only sends us 4 parts when we order the 20+ we need. We'll submit another order today and see if we can get enough parts to do your recall." PLUS, they gave me an extra crap "excuse" like, "Well, it's the summer boating season here..." (they sell high-end boats that cost WAY more than my little Spyder does I guess, and implying they are "really extra busy" or something because of all the boats :gaah: )

WTF???

This is the most BS I have ever dealt with concerning a $24,000+ vehicle purchase with a SAFETY recall that "can't get fixed" for an ENTIRE YEAR by the company. I'm either being BULL-SH*TED by my DEALER (who PROMISED they would call me back in April but never did), or BRP and their "Supply Chain" are the most incompetent business models I have ever seen. In either case, my 2018 Spyder will be the LAST thing I ever purchase from EITHER of them if a solution isn't provided to me within the next month prior to any additional medical treatment I may require.

Anybody wanna buy a low-mileage 2018 Spyder RTL with a ONE YEAR OLD SAFETY RECALL that can't get done for it? I didn't think so. :banghead:

 

[Woodaddict]

Hey Rick,
That's why I haven't seen any activity on the forum lately, battling heath issues. Hope now your doing well now. That responses you are getting from dealer is the problem. BRP does have some problems, but the dealer just doesn't want to work on something that doesn't pay well. Do you have another dealer in area??? Would help to investigate another one. Is it by chance a RideNow national dealership? Even if you have to travel farther, you will get a better result.

They don't keep a note after you called to check back with your recall. Just keep putting you off.

Maybe somebody in area can recommend a better dealership?????

 

[FalconAF]

Hey Rick,
That's why I haven't seen any activity on the forum lately, battling heath issues.

Yeah, the bladder cancer was a total surprise. No symptoms whatsoever until I passed blood twice in one day and called the Nellis AFB clinic. They said come in the next day, took one look at the video I had taken the second passing with my phone (don't ask...I like to have evidence to show the doctor ), and a few days later I was having a CT Scan which showed the masses. Cystoscopy a couple days later for a better look (the doc let me watch the video monitor...that was cool but a bit jarring too when I could see the tumors), and the Urologist recommended we do the surgery as soon as reasonable. So 2 days later we did it. Then back home with a catheter and collection bag for a while, with a stent also inserted up into my right kidney for 30 days before it was removed (needed the stent because one of the biopsies had to include samples from up into the right ureter draining from the kidney to the bladder, so the stent was inserted to allow the ureter to heal without blocking the tube, etc). Then the once a week 6 weeks of chemo into the bladder. I didn't tolerate the 6 weeks of chemo very well...my bladder kept spasming it back out of me before the one hour I was supposed to hold it in. Seems a certain percentage of people have that issue after the type of surgery, and I was one of them. Anyhow, the whole process was physically and mentally draining (let alone uncomfy) for almost 4 months, but you deal with what life throws at you.

The only other Spyder dealer I know of here in Las Vegas is one of the Ride Now dealers. BUT...I had gone to them first when I started looking at Spyders, and when the Service Department guy tried to sell me on a BS Service Plan that in no way agreed with the BRP recommended service schedule (it was padded so much it was laughable) I went out the door to the dealer I bought my Spyder from. I've had all my routine service done by them since, but the Safety Recall customer service just seems to be shot full of BS. As in, if when I called them in January and they said "we can't get the parts until April, so we'll call you then", I would ASSUME I would have been put on a "waiting list" then. Then I never got a call in April, even if I was on a list. And now, they say there are "still" over 20 people ahead of me on "the list". But they also say "every time we ask for 20+ replacement parts, BRP only sends us 4". Well...how many times has that happened since JANUARY? 2? 3? 5? 10? Heck, if it was even only 4 times (in 7 months time?), that should have been 16 repairs that could have been done for 16 people ahead of me on the list already. How the hell many people were on the list when they added me to it in January with the expectation of calling me in April? And there are STILL 20+ people ahead of me? Sounds like BS to me. But I doubt the Ride Now dealer would treat me any better after our "encounter" when I first went to them looking for a Spyder. I'd have a hard time trusting them after they wanted to fleece me with their "BRP Recommended Service Schedule" that was pure BS.

As an aside, one of the trips I had scheduled and already made reservations for was my bucket list Alaska Highway trip. Was going to do it in 2020 before COVID closed everything down. Wasn't able to go in 2021 or 2022 either. So I started planning last October to do it this summer and had made most of the reservations already. Then February and the cancer, and I had to cancel the trip again. But I wouldn't have been able to go this year anyhow because of all the fires up there. It would have gotten cancelled regardless of the cancer or not. Never a dull moment sometimes.

 

[Peter Aawen]

......
As an aside, one of the trips I had scheduled and already made reservations for was my bucket list Alaska Highway trip. Was going to do it in 2020 before COVID closed everything down. Wasn't able to go in 2021 or 2022 either. So I started planning last October to do it this summer and had made most of the reservations already. Then February and the cancer, and I had to cancel the trip again. But I wouldn't have been able to go this year anyhow because of all the fires up there. It would have gotten cancelled regardless of the cancer or not. Never a dull moment sometimes.

All this cancer stuff is NOT a wonderful thing to hear, I do hope you're on the mend now; that any follow-up surgery & treatment is successful; and that you can keep the cancer at bay for years to come! :thumbup:

But I hafta ask, do you ever get the feeling that someone's trying to tell you that maybe this Alaska trip isn't such a great idea?? At least not the way you've planned it?? :dontknow:

 

[FalconAF]

But I hafta ask, do you ever get the feeling that someone's trying to tell you that maybe this Alaska trip isn't such a great idea?? At least not the way you've planned it?? :dontknow:

LMAO! Yeah, that thought has occurred to me over the past 4 years too. But the problem with doing "The Alaska Trip" on 2 (or even 3) wheels is that unless you want to risk needing chains and studded snow tires, there's really only one way TO plan it. Go towards Alaska in late May (earliest) and get back to the U.S. mainland northern border by late August (latest). Otherwise the mountain passes can get blizzards that you'd need a 4-wheel drive to navigate.

I feel OK now and have taken my Spyder out for short rides just to keep the fluids circulating and use enough gas to allow for refueling so I don't end up with 3 - 4 month old gas in the tank. But for God's sake, I'm still sitting here with a 4-year old Spyder RTL (the one designed for long distance Touring) that has less than 12,000 miles on it, even after doing that one long road trip of about 3,000 miles the summer of 2019 after I bought it. Heck, WoodAddict knows me from the Honda NT700V forum when I had one of those and put over 25,000 miles on it the first year I had it. That was the same amount of riding I intended to do with my Spyder when I bought it. Then COVID comes along, etc, etc. And even now that I feel good enough to ride it since the surgery, etc, we are in the middle of the massive heat fiasco here in the desert Southwest. Even an out-and-back extended day ride would have to be done in 100 - 110 degree plus heat for the entire day. I have the gear to do that, but the desire to do what's necessary to do it SAFELY is lacking right now. And, we recently had the distinct honor of experiencing the first "Hurricane Passes Over Nevada With Associated Flooding While Already In Our Monsoon Season" fiasco here too. If someone or something is trying to send me a message to not go riding, they sure aren't holding back on any ways to send the messages. :shocked:

So I'm just doing short "keep the fluids circulating in the Spyder" rides for now. Lately, it's been avoiding heat stroke, flash flooding, and burning trees and bushes around here.

EDIT: I just realized I posted about my RTL recall in this F3 forum. Hazard of logging in, doing a search for "sprocket recall", then posting in the forum thread that displayed the first subject thread without looking at what Spyder version it was for. Duh! Brain Dump 101.

 

[Mikey]

If you're in for a good ride, I would find another dealer that may have a better relationship with BRP that may have the parts you need, and get the old girl fixed! Just a phone call away, can't hurt!:dontknow:

 

[FalconAF]

If you're in for a good ride, I would find another dealer that may have a better relationship with BRP that may have the parts you need, and get the old girl fixed! Just a phone call away, can't hurt!:dontknow:

I'd be totally willing to do that. I have the riding gear that would allow me to do an all-day one-way ride in the desert Southwest safely even in the heat out here now. I have a couple relatives in the Phoenix, AZ area and have read about great service given by a dealer there, and also a dealer somewhere south-ish of Tucson, AZ too, but I can't remember the dealer's names or exactly what city (or suburb area) they were in. Basically, I would need (and REALLY appreciate) any recommendations from any riders here in the Arizona, California, Utah, or even Colorado areas (I have an old military friend in the Denver area who keeps encouraging me to "ride my toy tricycle to come see him again"...but we're still friends :cheers. So if anybody here knows of ANY Spyder dealers within a day's ride from Las Vegas, NV to the dealer's local area who WOULD be able (and WILLING) to do the safety recall fix, I'd jump at the chance to call them. And for me, a "day's ride" distance could be between 700 - 800 miles. I've done several Iron Butt 1000+ mile rides in the past, and could still do a slightly shorter one with no problems. But if needed, I could also break it down to a 2-day ride there, just in case. And I would plan on staying overnight in the dealer's local area to allow for any "LockTite Curing Time" to take place as recommended by the BRP and LockTite documentations. So yes...I could see me doing a 4 - 7 day "road trip" if I was CERTAIN I could get the Safety Recall done during it. And heck, to sweeten the deal for the dealer, I'd even be willing to pay them for an oil change service seeing as it's been over a year since my local dealer did my last one. I haven't put anywhere NEAR the miles on my RTL since the last oil change that would "require" an oil change, but with the relatively few riding miles I have put on it when it hasn't (mostly) just been sitting in my garage on the battery tender for the past 6 months, I'd pay for an oil change after riding it several hundred miles to the servicing dealer. At least I would feel like I wasn't "screwing the dealer" by just requesting a "no profit" Safety Recall service from them.

So does anybody here have any recommendations for dealers within say 700 - 800 miles of Las Vegas, NV that would be able and willing to do the Safety Recall work on my 2018 RTL? :chat: I honestly would LIKE to go on a road trip right now for several days, especially if I could get the darned Safety Recall work done as part of it.

 

[Spyderman2018]

The closest BRP dealership to me said they need the bike for a week!! When not being worked on in the shop, they will store it outside in the elements. Not a happy camper. I'm thinking of buying the sprocket & doing it myself.....

 

[Peter Aawen]

The closest BRP dealership to me said they need the bike for a week!! When not being worked on in the shop, they will store it outside in the elements. Not a happy camper. I'm thinking of buying the sprocket & doing it myself.....

Unless things are very different over there than they are here in Oz (& last time I looked, they aren't! ) then you won't get that recall ever registered against your Spyder's VIN as having been done on your Spyder, and that is likely to cost you somewhat if not dearly if you ever try to sell/trade it in!! :banghead:

AFAIK, it doesn't matter HOW incompetent you might think they are or HOW LONG they might take to do the job, if you want Recall work done & registered as being done on your Spyder, then it MUST be done by an appropriately Authorised Dealer/shop!

Mind you, if it's their competence you're concerned about, there's nothing stopping you from getting them to do it, then getting it home & either doing it properly yourself or getting someone else you trust to do it properly onto it! hyea: That doesn't help you much when the issue with the dealer is how long they'll take &/or how poorly they'll look after your Spyder in the meantime tho.... :cus:

 

[mikthebik]

I'd be totally willing to do that. I have the riding gear that would allow me to do an all-day one-way ride in the desert Southwest safely even in the heat out here now. I have a couple relatives in the Phoenix, AZ area and have read about great service given by a dealer there, and also a dealer somewhere south-ish of Tucson, AZ too, but I can't remember the dealer's names or exactly what city (or suburb area) they were in. Basically, I would need (and REALLY appreciate) any recommendations from any riders here in the Arizona, California, Utah, or even Colorado areas (I have an old military friend in the Denver area who keeps encouraging me to "ride my toy tricycle to come see him again"...but we're still friends :cheers. So if anybody here knows of ANY Spyder dealers within a day's ride from Las Vegas, NV to the dealer's local area who WOULD be able (and WILLING) to do the safety recall fix, I'd jump at the chance to call them. And for me, a "day's ride" distance could be between 700 - 800 miles. I've done several Iron Butt 1000+ mile rides in the past, and could still do a slightly shorter one with no problems. But if needed, I could also break it down to a 2-day ride there, just in case. And I would plan on staying overnight in the dealer's local area to allow for any "LockTite Curing Time" to take place as recommended by the BRP and LockTite documentations. So yes...I could see me doing a 4 - 7 day "road trip" if I was CERTAIN I could get the Safety Recall done during it. And heck, to sweeten the deal for the dealer, I'd even be willing to pay them for an oil change service seeing as it's been over a year since my local dealer did my last one. I haven't put anywhere NEAR the miles on my RTL since the last oil change that would "require" an oil change, but with the relatively few riding miles I have put on it when it hasn't (mostly) just been sitting in my garage on the battery tender for the past 6 months, I'd pay for an oil change after riding it several hundred miles to the servicing dealer. At least I would feel like I wasn't "screwing the dealer" by just requesting a "no profit" Safety Recall service from them.

So does anybody here have any recommendations for dealers within say 700 - 800 miles of Las Vegas, NV that would be able and willing to do the Safety Recall work on my 2018 RTL? :chat: I honestly would LIKE to go on a road trip right now for several days, especially if I could get the darned Safety Recall work done as part of it.

A couple of comments. First, having dealt with the **** ups on the F3S I purchased in Phoenix, that had been "maintained" by Ride Now - I'd stay away from them. Second on the pulley recall, you can easily check the health of the sprocket with a visual inspection. Heavy reddish dust is a signal to get it done without too much delay. Just a light coating should mitigate worries too much.

Also on the recall, I had a good conversation with my super-tech Herm, who did the change, in less than an hour, including re-adjusting the belt. He gave some useful tips on belt tracking and axle nut torque, along with the fact they have never received any loctite product to include with the change. The latest sprocket change is a departure from the original design, in that there is a spacer that fits on the transmission shaft stub, bedded up against the spline's shoulder. Didn't ask, but assume it's hardened.

The previous designs all had the issue of the sprocket migrating inward and locking onto the spline shoulder area. They've had to sawzall off at least a couple of sprockets. The spacer should allow a firm seating on the shaft and prevents the previous migration issue. Herm uses a combination of grease and moly paste on the splines and the yellow loctite on the threads, tightening the nut to spec (I've forgotten the torque). I'm assuming he's been doing the recalls for a couple of years now. He's had zero returns and reworks. To me, and friends, Herm is the Can Am engineering equivalent of Kevin Cameron and I definitely trust his judgement as much as BRP.

One more interesting factoid, if you read the recall, it states: "The final repair is to replace the front sprocket and the sprocket screw. The replacement procedure should take less than an hour." That doesn't mention the spacer, but an hour certainly doesn't include the 24 hr. loctite curing. Could be BRP just hasn't updated the recall on the website, imagine that...

Luckily, the 2018 RTL purchased a couple of months ago, evidently had the recall done. The PO, with memory issues (which was why he was selling) didn't remember, but the dealer checked the VIN and it has no outstanding recalls.

I'm sure I'll get some disagreement with the no loctite fix, but I'm definitely good with it.

One last thing, I'd recommend Escondido Cycle Center for the repair, but I waited 3 months for Herm to be available, plus you may not be open to the no-loctite Herm solution.

 

[grumpyoldretiredcop]

I took my F3 into the local dealer (reluctantly) in October of 2022 for the sprocket replacement. I've just received the same letter as FalconAF. I'd been under the impression that the 10/22 repair was the final fix, not the interim repair. Guess I'll have to call the dealer this week and find out whether they did the temporary fix or the final repair - if they can tell me.

 

[Gwolf]

Waited the time the dealership service manager told me, then called back down there yesterday. They have not received the final replacement pulley parts, and they can't give me any estimate when they will get them.

Looks like another case of, "Don't call me, I will call you."

"For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.”

 

[Peteoz]

One more interesting factoid, if you read the recall, it states: "The final repair is to replace the front sprocket and the sprocket screw. The replacement procedure should take less than an hour." That doesn't mention the spacer, but an hour certainly doesn't include the 24 hr. loctite curing. Could be BRP just hasn't updated the recall on the website, imagine that...

Luckily, the 2018 RTL purchased a couple of months ago, evidently had the recall done. The PO, with memory issues (which was why he was selling) didn't remember, but the dealer checked the VIN and it has no outstanding recalls.

I'm sure I'll get some disagreement with the no loctite fix, but I'm definitely good with it.

One last thing, I'd recommend Escondido Cycle Center for the repair, but I waited 3 months for Herm to be available, plus you may not be open to the no-loctite Herm solution.

I don’t know what “recall” document you are referring to, Mik, but the official BRP safety recall process from September 29, 2022, specifically references both the spacer and Loctite. The Loctite cure time is not included in the 1 hour specified as that hour is labour cost time for which the dealer is reimbursed. The Loctite cure time is not.

Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

Just some food for thought - It’s great that you and Herm are OK with the No Loctite fix, and I am sure he knows what he is doing, but if for some reason those sprockets that Herm is fixing with grease, moly and yellow Loctite fail at an in opportune time, I don’t think you will get ANY support from BRP (or your insurer) as the sprocket fix was not performed as per the Safety Recall guidelines.

Pete