Red Dust of Death Recall???? Front Sprocket Recall - FINALLY....

[Peteoz]

I pulled out my endoscope and peeked up under the bike to get a picture of the sprocket. It sure looks white to me (aka not the final fix sprocket). The mechanic "assured" me that I had the final fix and didn't need to schedule a follow up.
Don't get me wrong. I'm ecstatic to have my bike back and riding after 3 months, but I wonder how much of a fight I'm going to have when I try to schedule to get the real part installed.

Bugger, Clay……mind you, if they have used the right compound Loctite on it, you will probably not have an issue anyway…….at least until they realise that the white sprocket is not actually the final fix. Lamonster have been putting Loctite (not sure of the number….I’ll insert it when I find it) on the sprockets they are replacing for a considerable time and have seen no failures after doing that…….but has your dealer used the “right” compound?

Pete

 

[bikerchris1270]

Is this the correct assembly sequence for the Recall Pulley?

Concerning the Front Pulley Recall:
Is the assembly sequence: washer, pulley, bolt; or, pulley, washer, bolt?
I’m of the mindset to perform the recall myself in the future, not really a fan of letting someone else work on my vehicle.
Belt alignment would give me the answer, but just trying to anticipate the project.

 

[fatboy]

im sure this must be done at dealer

 

[Peter Aawen]

Concerning the Front Pulley Recall:
Is the assembly sequence: washer, pulley, bolt……….or…….pulley,washer, bolt?
I’m of the mindset to perform the recall myself in the future……..not really a fan of letting someone else work on my vehicle.
Belt alignment would give me the answer, but, just trying to anticipate the project.

im sure this must be done at dealer

Yeah, as fatboy has said, if you want the recall to be completed on your Spyder, you'll HAVE to get it done by an Authorised Can-Am On Road Dealer! :lecturef_smilie:

Doing anything else will mean your Spyder is never endorsed/registered as having that recall done, and that could have legal & insurance ramifications, as well as possibly reducing any financial consideration you might expect if/when you decide to sell! :shocked:

If you are truly concerned, get your dealer to do the recall work first, so that your Spyder is officially recorded as having had it done; then either check it yourself or do it again yourself afterwards. :thumbup:

Just Sayin' :cheers:

 

[delkhouri]

i am looking at purchasing a used F3 and the seller gave me the vin... i looked it up and it does have the sprocket recall. I called my local dealer and they said that just because it has a recall does that mean that it will be changed. It has to be inspected and fail the inspection in order to be changed. Is this accurate info? Doesn't quite sit right with me.

Update. I called another local dealer and they said bring it in, we have the sprocket in stock and it takes a few hours to do.

 

[Peteoz]

i am looking at purchasing a used F3 and the seller gave me the vin... i looked it up and it does have the sprocket recall. I called my local dealer and they said that just because it has a recall does that mean that it will be changed. It has to be inspected and fail the inspection in order to be changed. Is this accurate info? Doesn't quite sit right with me.

Update. I called another local dealer and they said bring it in, we have the sprocket in stock and it takes a few hours to do.

If you have the VIN recall, it HAS to be done, Delkhouri. That “we’ll look at it and decide whether it needs changing” was merely the interim fix, until the new sprockets arrive. I’d be steering clear of that first dealer if I were you. You don’t know what ELSE they don’t know about Spyders :gaah:

Pete

 

[T.P.]

THE NEW REPLACEMENT SPROCKET IS SILVER

I have a copy of the Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

CHECK THE NUMBERS ON YOUR DEALER PAPERWORK!

Way too much misinformation on this issue since the start of the problem,
We need everyone on the same page in the same book.

T.P.

 

[bikerchris1270]

This guy is my hero.

 

[Cobwebs]

Concerning the Front Pulley Recall:
Is the assembly sequence: washer, pulley, bolt……….or…….pulley,washer, bolt?
I’m of the mindset to perform the recall myself in the future……..not really a fan of letting someone else work on my vehicle.
Belt alignment would give me the answer, but, just trying to anticipate the project.

Washer, loctite/pulley, bolt, 24hour wait, ride.



Just so as everyone knows the loctite is to glue the pulley to the shaft it's not to glue the bolt in place.
Let the dealer do it to retain your legal status. If they allow you to ride off immediately and it fails any time in the future and kills you, they will be liable because they haven't followed loctite's cure time advice. None of them seem to be following this from what I'm reading here.
It's a long shot you say, the odds of the replacement sprocket failing would be huge. No one has been able to confirm if the metallurgy has changed or not so, if not, the repair is based solely on the loctite preventing the sprocket from fretting and doing the same thing again. In other words, a complete waste of time and effort by all involved if it doesn't get the required cure time.
Dealers get paid I think from memory something like 40 minutes labour from BRP to complete the task, they just want it in and out as quickly as possible, BRP just want to meet their legal obligations, you want to do your own research and stop relying on third parties to run your life and start considering bikerchris's approach to things.

 

[JKMSPYDER]

In 2019 I had my pulley replaced by a dealer in NV with Loctite. No cure time was mentioned and I rode the Spyder to St George, UT immediately afterward. When I had the pulley replaced a month ago for the recall the pulley was still in good shape with no wear and no dust. After the replacement of the latest pulley and washer with Loctite by my dealer in NC I rode 2 1/2 hours back to my home. Neither dealer mentioned a period of cure time. I am certainly not disputing that cure time is necessary, but I think some dealers are not mentioning it or the Loctite being used requires no cure time. Thoughts?

 

[Mikey]

Washer, loctite/pulley, bolt, 24hour wait, ride.



Just so as everyone knows the loctite is to glue the pulley to the shaft it's not to glue the bolt in place.
Let the dealer do it to retain your legal status. If they allow you to ride off immediately and it fails any time in the future and kills you, they will be liable because they haven't followed loctite's cure time advice. None of them seem to be following this from what I'm reading here.
It's a long shot you say, the odds of the replacement sprocket failing would be huge. No one has been able to confirm if the metallurgy has changed or not so, if not, the repair is based solely on the loctite preventing the sprocket from fretting and doing the same thing again. In other words, a complete waste of time and effort by all involved if it doesn't get the required cure time.
Dealers get paid I think from memory something like 40 minutes labour from BRP to complete the task, they just want it in and out as quickly as possible, BRP just want to meet their legal obligations, you want to do your own research and stop relying on third parties to run your life and start considering bikerchris's approach to things.

I would hate to be the poor sucker to have to pull that sprocket off after all that has set up! Torches, seals and bearings don't play well together!

 

[Knizar]

I would hate to be the poor sucker to have to pull that sprocket off after all that has set up! Torches, seals and bearings don't play well together!

Mikey,

I believe the point of adding the washer behind the new sprocket is to minimize the heat transfer to the shaft seal and bearing should the new sprocket need to be heated to remove it at a later date! JMHO... Bill

 

[EdMat]

In 2019 I had my pulley replaced by a dealer in NV with Loctite. No cure time was mentioned and I rode the Spyder to St George, UT immediately afterward. When I had the pulley replaced a month ago for the recall the pulley was still in good shape with no wear and no dust. After the replacement of the latest pulley and washer with Loctite by my dealer in NC I rode 2 1/2 hours back to my home. Neither dealer mentioned a period of cure time. I am certainly not disputing that cure time is necessary, but I think some dealers are not mentioning it or the Loctite being used requires no cure time. Thoughts?

Take the time to read the spec sheet that's put out by Loctite on the product.

 

[seaweed]

I wish that BRP would publish which type of loctite is being used, also other details such if an activator is being used (and which type).

I looked at the specs for both LOCTITE 603 and LOCTITE 609. Both show a cure time of at least 6 hours to achieve a 100% full strength on steel.
603 609

The gap between the two surfaces also make a difference for curing time.
603 609

Also the air temperature (in the shop and parts involved) can effect the cure time. Ideal temperature is above 40 degrees above 40 C.
603 609

The cure time can be shortened by using Activator SF 7649 or Activator SF 7471.
603 609

So if a dealer is allowing the Spyder to be used in less than 6 hours they might be using an activator.

 

[Cobwebs]

I would hate to be the poor sucker to have to pull that sprocket off after all that has set up! Torches, seals and bearings don't play well together!

10 ton hydraulic puller has been the weapon of choice for the really stuck sprockets apparently.:bbq::bdh:

 

[Cobwebs]

THE NEW REPLACEMENT SPROCKET IS SILVER

I have a copy of the Warranty Bulletin #2019-10 rev 1 September29,2022
Required parts, front sprocket kit, (includes washer)219800553 needed 1
listed as screw 250001017 needed 1
use loctite 609 or 603 torque to 111 lbf-ft +-4
No cure time listed.

CHECK THE NUMBERS ON YOUR DEALER PAPERWORK!

Way too much misinformation on this issue since the start of the problem,
We need everyone on the same page in the same book.

T.P.

I wish that BRP would publish which type of loctite is being used, also other details such if an activator is being used (and which type).

I looked at the specs for both LOCTITE 603 and LOCTITE 609. Both show a cure time of at least 6 hours to achieve a 100% full strength on steel.
603 View attachment 201741 609View attachment 201742

The gap between the two surfaces also make a difference for curing time.
603View attachment 201743 609View attachment 201744

Also the air temperature (in the shop and parts involved) can effect the cure time. Ideal temperature is above 40 degrees above 40 C.
603View attachment 201745 609View attachment 201746

The cure time can be shortened by using Activator SF 7649 or Activator SF 7471.
603View attachment 201747 609 View attachment 201748

So if a dealer is allowing the Spyder to be used in less than 6 hours they might be using an activator.

Nothing in the warranty bulletin about any activator so they wouldn't be following BRP's script if they did use it .

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=34089162ffe44386JmltdHM9MTY3OTYxNjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTIwYjhmZC0yNGRjLTZlZGMtMzE0MC1hYTg4MjUzNjZmZTMmaW5zaWQ9NTQzMQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=0e20b8fd-24dc-6edc-3140-aa8825366fe3&psq=loctite+603+cure+time&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucnNodWdoZXMuY29tL3AvTG9jdGl0ZS02MDMtUmV0YWluaW5nLUNvbXBvdW5kLTEwLU1sLUJvdHRsZS0yMTQ0MC1JREgtMjMxMDk3LzA3OTM0MF8yMTQ0MC8jOn46dGV4dD1Mb2N0aXRlJTIwNjAzJTIwZ3JlZW4lMjByZXRhaW5pbmclMjBjb21wb3VuZCUyMHdpdGglMjBhJTIwNzIscGVyZm9ybWFuY2UlMjB3aXRoJTIwYSUyMHNoZWFyJTIwc3RyZW5ndGglMjBvZiUyMDMyNjAlMjBwc2ku&ntb=1
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=c855bd18699c8e18JmltdHM9MTY3OTYxNjAwMCZpZ3VpZD0wZTIwYjhmZC0yNGRjLTZlZGMtMzE0MC1hYTg4MjUzNjZmZTMmaW5zaWQ9NTQzNg&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=0e20b8fd-24dc-6edc-3140-aa8825366fe3&psq=loctite+609+cure+time&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucnNodWdoZXMuY29tL3AvTG9jdGl0ZS02MDktUmV0YWluaW5nLUNvbXBvdW5kLTEwLU1sLUJvdHRsZS02MDkyMS1JREgtMTM1NTExLzA3OTM0MF82MDkyMS8jOn46dGV4dD1Mb2N0aXRlJTIwNjA5JTIwZ3JlZW4lMjByZXRhaW5pbmclMjBjb21wb3VuZCUyMHdpdGglMjBhJTIwMjQsVGhlJTIwSURIJTIwbnVtYmVyJTIwZm9yJTIwdGhpcyUyMGl0ZW0lMjBpcyUyMDEzNTUxMS4&ntb=1

Cure times highlighted as 24 and 72 hours.

 

[EdMat]

Cure time is also based on the cleanliness of the metal components. The loctite reacts with the metal causing it to set. Also note that it reacts differently with various metals. The three examples shown steel, galvanize and aluminum all have different cure rates.

Hopefully the tech is willing to spend a bit of time cleaning out the grooves in the shaft, I know mine is full of moly paste.

 

[T.P.]

Mikey,

I believe the point of adding the washer behind the new sprocket is to minimize the heat transfer to the shaft seal and bearing should the new sprocket need to be heated to remove it at a later date! JMHO... Bill

The washer is to act as a solid base on the output shaft to be able to seat the milled sprocket hub, to get rid of the sprocket wobble.
T.P.

 

[Knizar]

The washer is to act as a solid base on the output shaft to be able to seat the milled sprocket hub, to get rid of the sprocket wobble.
T.P.

What ever the reason for adding the washer, hopefully the center hub of the sprocket will hold-up better with the new formulated loctite! I am wishful as everyone else that this is the "Final Fix", but we all know that only time and abuse will make this a fact. btw, Who came up with calling this the final fix? I don't believe it was BRP! :thumbup: .Bill

 

[Woodaddict]

for those who have done the "Final fix" recall on the sprocket, have you had to pay anything? Even those "shop supplies" line items? Just planning ahead if dealership tries to make me pay even for the line item " shop supplies" I'll know how to react. With this Ridenow dealership my itemized list shows $156.99 and $14.99. Just would think those costs go to BRP along with any "shop supplies" charges