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Front Sprocket Again!!

fatboy said:
if the bolt backs of from the torque of using the trans as a brake it does not matter how hard it is
Click to expand...
The only way downshifting will loosen the bolt is for the sprocket to have rotational movement with respect to the shaft. The red dust is the result of fretting. Industrial installations contend with the same issue. The two most common causes of fretting, from what I read, is misalignment of the mating splines, or rotational vibration. In applications where there isn't a flywheel to counteract changes in rotational speed there is a good possibility of rotational vibration. That may be what is causing the Spyder sprockets to wear. Or, maybe the sprocket tooth configuration that was causing the belt whine may have been inducing rotational vibration in the sprocket.

In any case fretting is not subject to an easy solution, and has been the focus of many engineers in industry. It's far to complicated for us mere Spyder riding mortals to solve. I'm an engineer and I had difficulty understanding some of the discussions about spline fretting.
 
IdahoMtnSpyder said:
The only way downshifting will loosen the bolt is for the sprocket to have rotational movement with respect to the shaft. The red dust is the result of fretting. Industrial installations contend with the same issue. The two most common causes of fretting, from what I read, is misalignment of the mating splines, or rotational vibration. In applications where there isn't a flywheel to counteract changes in rotational speed there is a good possibility of rotational vibration. That may be what is causing the Spyder sprockets to wear. Or, maybe the sprocket tooth configuration that was causing the belt whine may have been inducing rotational vibration in the sprocket.

In any case fretting is not subject to an easy solution, and has been the focus of many engineers in industry. It's far to complicated for us mere Spyder riding mortals to solve. I'm an engineer and I had difficulty understanding some of the discussions about spline fretting.
Click to expand...

:agree: .... To the best of my knowledge ( I read every Red Dust issue post ) this problem has only showed up in the models made after 2013 ans mostly to the F-3 .... I think BRP may have changed the main supplier of these parts, or the specs for them ..... BRP has done this with tires and DESS modules :gaah: .... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:
 
IdahoMtnSpyder said:
The only way downshifting will loosen the bolt is for the sprocket to have rotational movement with respect to the shaft. The red dust is the result of fretting. Industrial installations contend with the same issue. The two most common causes of fretting, from what I read, is misalignment of the mating splines, or rotational vibration. In applications where there isn't a flywheel to counteract changes in rotational speed there is a good possibility of rotational vibration. That may be what is causing the Spyder sprockets to wear. Or, maybe the sprocket tooth configuration that was causing the belt whine may have been inducing rotational vibration in the sprocket.

In any case fretting is not subject to an easy solution, and has been the focus of many engineers in industry. It's far to complicated for us mere Spyder riding mortals to solve. I'm an engineer and I had difficulty understanding some of the discussions about spline fretting.
Click to expand...

Fretting corrosion is not that difficult to contend with. You either redesign the interface of the joint to prevent movement, or you apply a lubricant and accomplish maintenance events to clean and inspect the splines for wear, if no wear is indicated, relubricate the splines and correctly reassemble.

As I have mentioned previously, the pulley is a wear item, same as sprockets with a chain. Can Am should not recall, but rather publish a service bulletin advising the service intervals for inspecting the splines.
 
PMK said:
Fretting corrosion is not that difficult to contend with. You either redesign the interface of the joint to prevent movement, or you apply a lubricant and accomplish maintenance events to clean and inspect the splines for wear, if no wear is indicated, relubricate the splines and correctly reassemble.

As I have mentioned previously, the pulley is a wear item, same as sprockets with a chain. Can Am should not recall, but rather publish a service bulletin advising the service intervals for inspecting the splines.
Click to expand...


I just inspected mine and re-lubed it at 10K miles, appear as good as new with lube apparent when I took it apart.
 
BLUEKNIGHT911 said:
OK I read that .... it says NOTHING about " fretting " .... and I think that is the major issue .... Mike :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Correct!!!!!! That's because 'it never happened' - like a few other things BRP doesn't admit to. :gaah: It was the fix for fretting and pulleys falling off 'due to inadequate clamping force' applied to the bolt at the factory (the bulletin said on the page where it shows the X marked on the bolt iirc) which has been increased a couple of times since.
 
Isn't that torq spec more now? And I am surprised they did say anything about lubing the splines while your there! :dontknow:
 
Mikey said:
Isn't that torq spec more now? And I am surprised they did say anything about lubing the splines while your there! :dontknow:
Click to expand...


I do believe the current torque spec represents the previous torque spec, plus run down torque resulting from the thread locking compound.

Not accounting for the run downs added friction, the previous torque spec of 94 lbft may be undertorquing by a small amount. This is one reason why the bolts should not be reused. The run down torque will be a fraction of that compared to a new bolt.
 
Dynamic (engine) braking is recommended in every MC training course. H-D has run belts on their machines for 25 years, and while they have problems with belt longevity initially, they are rock-solid reliable. I've never had an issue with 160K miles on them. Something is wrong with the design. That stated, I'd rather lose the sprocket than the shaft. One of our F3 machines has 32K miles without issues and the other needs replacement at 20K miles.
 
I'm on version 3.0. I'm beginning to wonder if when I visit the gas station and fill I should then check the tyre pressure then check the front sprocket.

Its still hard to imagine that the parent company of Can-Am build aircraft - I can see the planes now

Co-Pilot : "bugger we've lost engine One..."
Pilot : "That's why we have Two my friend"
Co-Pilot : "You didn't let me finish sir...
 
pauly you are talking to different drive trains hd has separate engine and trans with chain turning trans there is a compensator on the crank shaft to absorb the shock of down shifting
 
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