F3 Front Sprocket Inspection

[bandreassen]

Sprocket issues

BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.

 

[Sarge707]

BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.

I agree! I lowered my belt tension from 140 OTG to 100 On the ground just to make sure I'm Not aggravating any situation. It actually rides real good at 100 and any tension vibrations just seem milder at highway speeds. I would advise anyone concerned to do the same?

 

[jcthorne]

BRP needs to step up, and do a recall on F3's built in 2015 and 2016. This problem has happened all too frequently.

Nothing has changed for 2017. BRP has not determined the cause or a fix yet. Until they do, a service bulletin cannot be issued. It will not likely be a recall as its not a safety related item.

 

[old Timer]

For the life of me, I do not understand this short life pulley problem. Was at the local HD dealer yesterday and upon talking with their service Mgr he stated that they have never replaced a front or rear pully due to any problems similar to what is being reported here.

Same with the new Indians, similar belt drives have been used for years without this problem.

What's up with that?

 

[jcthorne]

For the life of me, I do not understand this short life pulley problem. Was at the local HD dealer yesterday and upon talking with their service Mgr he stated that they have never replaced a front or rear pully due to any problems similar to what is being reported here.

Same with the new Indians, similar belt drives have been used for years without this problem.

What's up with that?

Indian and HD rear belts are far shorter than on the Spyder. Its the harmonics in the belt causing the impact loading in the front pulley. That much is known, what is not known is the failure path nor how best to cure it.

 

[zuni]

Nothing has changed for 2017. BRP has not determined the cause or a fix yet. Until they do, a service bulletin cannot be issued. It will not likely be a recall as its not a safety related item.

I agree with some but not all or that. Probably won't ever be a recall and nobody has an exact reason or fix yet so no service bulletin until they do. Not being a safety issue I'm not so sure. I can think of several instances where a failure could be catastrophic. Crossing a heavily traveled road during a break in traffic, trying to accelerate to merge into traffic on an Interstate. In my first failure I was turning out onto a road from my subdivision which was luckily fairly empty at the time. The second instance I was at a stop light behind some other ryders with traffic behind me. When the light changed everyone accelerated and moved forward but all I got was the ratcheting sound underneath my engine revving. Was almost rear ended! Wouldn't have been my fault but I still would have been in an accident. To date my dealer and BRP has been great and my time without my Spyder has been short. Also like you I still plan on enjoying the ryde just hopefully without repeated sprocket failures.

CJ JAX

 

[Road-Kill]

Indian and HD rear belts are far shorter than on the Spyder. Its the harmonics in the belt causing the impact loading in the front pulley. That much is known, what is not known is the failure path nor how best to cure it.

I agree 100%. My buddies Harley Tri-Glide is almost exactly 1/2 that of my F3s. My Ultra-Classic had the exact same belt as his bike and never a problem in the 30,000+ miles I put on it.

Here is an interesting question.....
Since you suggest "harmonics" play a role in the wear.....would the BRP idler reduce the wear?
I have almost 18,000 miles on my F3s with the BRP idler and not a single problem to complaint about.

 

[zuni]

I agree 100%. My buddies Harley Tri-Glide is almost exactly 1/2 that of my F3s. My Ultra-Classic had the exact same belt as his bike and never a problem in the 30,000+ miles I put on it.

Here is an interesting question.....
Since you suggest "harmonics" play a role in the wear.....would the BRP idler reduce the wear?
I have almost 18,000 miles on my F3s with the BRP idler and not a single problem to complaint about.

It did nothing in my case. I wondered the same thing and had it installed after the first failure. Still it happened again. Both failures about 8K apart.

CJ JAX

 

[ofdave]

after reading through this thread, I went and checked my front sprocket this afternoon.
Only 2100 miles but I looked anyway.
All is fine.
I did notice a foam block (two actually) as a part of and on the back of the cover..
Wonder what the purpose of those is?
Noise reduction probably but what noise? trans or?
Just curious.

 

[Sarge707]

I'm wondering if there are any common denominators Like-
SE6 vs sm6?
Hot Weather State VS Cooler weather?
Heavier Person, 2 Up or Pulling trailer Vs Single Lighter rider?

In CT I'm rarely more than 50 miles from home and AMA pays 35 miles flatbed anywhere you want. Many aren't So Fortunate.

I think Heat and Belt tension must play some role?

 

[zuni]

I'm wondering if there are any common denominators Like-
SE6 vs sm6?
Hot Weather State VS Cooler weather?
Heavier Person, 2 Up or Pulling trailer Vs Single Lighter rider?

In CT I'm rarely more than 50 miles from home and AMA pays 35 miles flatbed anywhere you want. Many aren't So Fortunate.

I think Heat and Belt tension must play some role?

170lbs, single rider, no trailer, SE6. I still don't think we have hit upon a cause. If it was belt tension I would expect to see a lot more and most would be running factory spec. If it was heat related, SO Cal, TX, AZ, FL, NM would have the majority but they are scattered around the country. Every time I think I may have an idea I realize we would be seeing more with it covering two model years so far. Haven't heard about any 2017's yet.

CJ JAX

 

[SPYD3R]

1 of 2

170lbs, single rider, no trailer, SE6. I still don't think we have hit upon a cause. If it was belt tension I would expect to see a lot more and most would be running factory spec. If it was heat related, SO Cal, TX, AZ, FL, NM would have the majority but they are scattered around the country. Every time I think I may have an idea I realize we would be seeing more with it covering two model years so far. Haven't heard about any 2017's yet.

CJ JAX

problem is 1 of 2 things....
1. wrong heat treating process (or none at all)...
2. material properties are not correct for the application...
i was an engineer for years, and i figure the engineering department at BRP didn't do their failure analysis.... gears such as that on the F3, should be 'boiler plate'... BRP truly fell off the cliff on this one...
Dan P
SPYD3R

 

[Roadster Renovations]

problem is 1 of 2 things....
1. wrong heat treating process (or none at all)...
2. material properties are not correct for the application...
i was an engineer for years, and i figure the engineering department at BRP didn't do their failure analysis.... gears such as that on the F3, should be 'boiler plate'... BRP truly fell off the cliff on this one...
Dan P
SPYD3R

I wonder if it could be a inconsistency in the tolerances. Which would boil down to quality control. That would explain the hit and miss problem that is happening. For those that have had multiple failures, maybe the shaft is the culprit. We have seen BRP low ball bids on products for our bykes. Look at the Kendras.....

 

[jcthorne]

170lbs, single rider, no trailer, SE6. I still don't think we have hit upon a cause. If it was belt tension I would expect to see a lot more and most would be running factory spec. If it was heat related, SO Cal, TX, AZ, FL, NM would have the majority but they are scattered around the country. Every time I think I may have an idea I realize we would be seeing more with it covering two model years so far. Haven't heard about any 2017's yet.

CJ JAX

2017s are having the same problem. Just not as many....yet...as they are lower in miles as a group. But there have been failures of 17s as well. They also have the same sprocket, belt etc.

 

[JKMSPYDER]

From what I am hearing from other F3 owners it seems to happen between 15,000 and 25,000 miles although it can happen at any mileage. This looks like an epidemic on F3’s.

 

[JayBros]

This is easy Monday morning quarterbacking but it seems to me that if this is a "known issue" one would think BRP would have their act together but I guess they don't want to pay dealers for checking F3s that may be fine. It would seem to me that a three step process, like belt tension check and adjust to lower spec if necessary, followed by bolt removal and sprocket inspection, followed by sprocket replacement if necessary, and lastly Loctite application and correct torque of the bolt. They don't have to call it a recall; the marketeers and lawyers can come up with a BS term that would lend much credibility to a "warranty inspection effort." Toyota did one for some minor issue that occurred on my wife's 2016 Highlander. Even though BRP is a small company in the grand scheme of the motorcycle industry and must watch costs, it appears that they learned absolutely nothing from the 2013 RT fire bomb issue.

 

[Road-Kill]

Citations needed

I'm reading this thread like there is a "massive" problem with the front sprocket.
The same scenario played out with the epidemic "idler" failure......which ended up being complete bullsh*t.
Over 100,000 Spyders have been sold and I'm only reading a few with sprocket issues making it less then a 1% issue.
1% is NOT an massive issue, actually less then 1%.
Tens of thousands registered on this site and I see two or three with an issue so GET A GRIP PEOPLE.

If you are going to state there is a epidemic sprocket issue please cite your sources! :lecturef_smilie:

You will not because you can not because its bullsh*t......and I'm calling you on out on it.nojoke

 

[JKMSPYDER]

​Since you have an F3 I hope your sprocket doesn’t fail. If it does you may consider it an epidemic. Have you checked yours lately?

 

[Sarge707]

Think of the thousands of F3 owners that Don't view the site and Know nothing of reducing the tension to 300 Neutons Plus or minus 100. There could have been a letter to each owner telling them to bring it to the dealer for lowering? Many of us do not bring it to the dealer for service and Many dealers are to busy to read bullitens or Don' care.

 

[zuni]

I'm reading this thread like there is a "massive" problem with the front sprocket.
The same scenario played out with the epidemic "idler" failure......which ended up being complete bullsh*t.
Over 100,000 Spyders have been sold and I'm only reading a few with sprocket issues making it less then a 1% issue.
1% is NOT an massive issue, actually less then 1%.
Tens of thousands registered on this site and I see two or three with an issue so GET A GRIP PEOPLE.

If you are going to state there is a epidemic sprocket issue please cite your sources! :lecturef_smilie:

You will not because you can not because its bullsh*t......and I'm calling you on out on it.nojoke

Got to love your use of numbers. I never did and I don't recall anyone else saying this was a massive issue. Your "over 100,000 sold Spyders.....less then 1%" isn't really accurate since we are talking F3 series only (although there has been one RT). As for the "2 or 3" with an issue that is another generalization. I think I made the first post about this issue in August of last year and since then I have direct knowledge of over two dozen who were kind enough to contact me in response to my request of information. That is just from SL and now it is starting to circulate on FB. Lamont just had to have his replaced while at the Spyder in the Hills event. BRP and my dealer has been good to me with both failures and limited my downtime to no more than a week. Others have not been so lucky. Massive issue maybe not but since I love my F3 and would like to keep it for a while it would be nice to know why it keeps eating sprockets.

CJ JAX