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  1. #1
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    Default Loose Ball Bearings & Metal Ring Found in Engine Oil During 3K Mile SVC - Help!

    My BRP authorized Spyder technician found a batch of ball bearings and a tiny metal ring clinging to the magnetic drain plug inside my 2018 Spyder F3L's engine oil during the first 3K mile service - currently, it has 2746 miles. Does anyone know what these are and why this might've occurred?

    I had reported (and sent this video) to my dealer that I could hear tiny metal objects flinging around inside my engine housing back in July 2018, four months after purchasing my Spyder. dealer stated "this was normal". At the time I had 1200 miles on the odometer. I don't see any invoice indicating whether or not they contacted BRP to confirm. My Spyder is still under warranty.

    I'm curious what I need to be aware of and the extent of the damage they can cause to my engine/transmission. Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Dealer tech is waiting for BRP to authorise repair which I'm told could require rebuilding the bottom end of the engine.
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    Last edited by Seattle; 09-20-2019 at 04:20 PM. Reason: typo
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
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  2. #2
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Since you personally would not be able to definitively assess what those flying objects may have done to the rest of the engine and since your bike is still under warranty, a very polite "Come to Jesus" meeting with the service manager or, if necessary the owner of the dealership, telling them you want a new engine which will also come with its integral transmission should be your bottom line.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
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  3. #3
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    Yeah, I'd push for a new engine on that. The metal ring is part of the bearing assembly. Something has gone bad in there and those parts getting slung around inside the engine for a couple of thousand miles has probably beat it to death in there. Not to mention there's something in there that's not been properly supported.

  4. #4
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    bearings & the race means something else needs attention & quick, without that part in place something is wobbling around & probably damaging where replacement part will NOT fix & ask for a courtesy ride till they get it fixed or might have to flat out demand warranty replace with a whole new bike

    2013 STL SE5 BLACK CURRANT
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    BRP trailer hitch & 622 trailer (with its own list: Spyderpops Lighted Rear Bumpskid, LineX protection on sides, led trim lighting amber front& red rear, stand& tongue handle)THX Cruzr Joe!
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  5. #5
    Very Active Member Chupaca's Avatar
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    Default Bummer.....

    All of the above..... there will be damage as well as possibly more ball bearings and parts in there so they will have to pull the whole thing apart and inspect it all. A new engine would be the way to go. Would start pressing for a case number and follow up on the progress towards that end....good luck hope they get to it....
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  6. #6
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    Is the "BRP authorized Spyder technician" and the dealer, and the dealer tech who found this mess, all under the same roof? If so the least I would accept would be a new replacement engine and transmission complete. You know the dealer can't be trusted, and it is going to be the service manager who will be your go-between with BRP. Remember, customers are not always top priority with some dealerships. Many sad stories on this site will attest to that.

  7. #7
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    Case number was issued this week for the bearings failure which is a second case opened to an unrelated issue for the flawed audio system that affects all 2018 model Spyders. I digress... Anyhow, now that BRP is closed for the weekend I'll have to wait for a response next Tuesday and onward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chupaca View Post
    All of the above..... there will be damage as well as possibly more ball bearings and parts in there so they will have to pull the whole thing apart and inspect it all. A new engine would be the way to go. Would start pressing for a case number and follow up on the progress towards that end....good luck hope they get to it....
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
    because those who mind don't matter and
    those who matter don't mind.”
    ... Dr. Suess

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  8. #8
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    Case number issued. I've been on a brand new 2018 RTL loaner (fourth one within 18 months) through this ordeal which entails another warranty battle of my life with BRP. If the engine/transmision situation cannot be properly resolved with a complete replacement depending on the extent of the damage, I will possibly Lemon Law this Spyder if these items of concern will not be properly resolved to my satisfaction before April 2020 which is when my two year warranty expires. I've had little riding time of my '18 F3L in the 18 months. I've put more miles between four new RTL loaners than on my own F3L alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bfromla View Post
    bearings & the race means something else needs attention & quick, without that part in place something is wobbling around & probably damaging where replacement part will NOT fix & ask for a courtesy ride till they get it fixed or might have to flat out demand warranty replace with a whole new bike
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
    because those who mind don't matter and
    those who matter don't mind.”
    ... Dr. Suess

    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
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  9. #9
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    This was all discovered in house at the flagship premium BRP authorised dealer. The owner of the dealership has has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me against this battle with BRP. He is someone who I've become friends with over the years where I purchased my previous 2008 Spyder GS I had for a decade before upgrading to this '18 F3L. I trust he will do whatever is within his power to get my Spyder addressed or replaced. I really WANT my Spyder because it's a 10th Anniversary Edition so I'll never find another new one like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    Is the "BRP authorized Spyder technician" and the dealer, and the dealer tech who found this mess, all under the same roof? If so the least I would accept would be a new replacement engine and transmission complete. You know the dealer can't be trusted, and it is going to be the service manager who will be your go-between with BRP. Remember, customers are not always top priority with some dealerships. Many sad stories on this site will attest to that.
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
    because those who mind don't matter and
    those who matter don't mind.”
    ... Dr. Suess

    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")


  10. #10
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    UPDATE: Service technician was told by BRP engineering that these loose bearings are related to a "shift index lever" metal ring failure that holds in the bearings. My question for him to relay back with BRP engineering – who are now closed for the weekend – where can these bearings travel within the engine and transmission and what kind of damage would they do.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
    because those who mind don't matter and
    those who matter don't mind.”
    ... Dr. Suess

    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(")


  11. #11
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Make sure you get some sort of free oils changes for a year to be sure all that crap is not stuck in your engine and will it be warrantied for a extended time now that this has been addressed?

  12. #12
    Active Member Zoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    UPDATE: Service technician was told by BRP engineering that these loose bearings are related to a "shift index lever" metal ring failure that holds in the bearings. My question for him to relay back with BRP engineering – who are now closed for the weekend – where can these bearings travel within the engine and transmission and what kind of damage would they do.
    I find it a bit unnerving that something like this gets a service bulletin - i.e. it's a known issue - but not a recall.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    The old reliability spyder bites yet again. BRP says: 'it's just a flesh wound. Don't worry about it, we don't.'
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  14. #14
    SpyderLovers Sponsor Motorcycledave's Avatar
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    That’s not good, it may be a Monday or
    Friday Spyder, demand a new
    one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    My BRP authorized Spyder technician found a batch of ball bearings and a tiny metal ring clinging to the magnetic drain plug inside my 2018 Spyder F3L's engine oil during the first 3K mile service - currently, it has 2746 miles. Does anyone know what these are and why this might've occurred?

    I had reported (and sent this video) to my dealer that I could hear tiny metal objects flinging around inside my engine housing back in July 2018, four months after purchasing my Spyder. dealer stated "this was normal". At the time I had 1200 miles on the odometer. I don't see any invoice indicating whether or not they contacted BRP to confirm. My Spyder is still under warranty.

    I'm curious what I need to be aware of and the extent of the damage they can cause to my engine/transmission. Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Dealer tech is waiting for BRP to authorise repair which I'm told could require rebuilding the bottom end of the engine.

  15. #15
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    Never mind.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    This was all discovered in house at the flagship premium BRP authorised dealer. The owner of the dealership has has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me against this battle with BRP. He is someone who I've become friends with over the years where I purchased my previous 2008 Spyder GS I had for a decade before upgrading to this '18 F3L. I trust he will do whatever is within his power to get my Spyder addressed or replaced. I really WANT my Spyder because it's a 10th Anniversary Edition so I'll never find another new one like it.
    Sounds like you have a better relationship with the dealer than I thought. That's good news. If at all possible keep up the positive relationship. Not too many dealers will offer long term lenders to ride while your scoot is in the shop. With your dealer's help I hope you're on a downhill slope to a very satisfying solution where everyone ends up being happy. Best of luck.

  17. #17
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    UPDATE: Service technician was told by BRP engineering that these loose bearings are related to a "shift index lever" metal ring failure that holds in the bearings. My question for him to relay back with BRP engineering – who are now closed for the weekend – where can these bearings travel within the engine and transmission and what kind of damage would they do.
    : hoping for the best especially with anniversary edition thanks for keeping us in the loop

    2013 STL SE5 BLACK CURRANT
    SpyderPop's: LED bumpskid
    SmoothSpyder: dualmode back rest
    T r * * LED:foam grip covers, Tricrings, FenderZ &brake light strips,
    wide vue mirrors
    Lid lox
    sawblade mowhalk fender accents
    minispyder dash toy
    Pakitrack
    FLO (Frunk Lid Organizer)
    BRP trailer hitch & 622 trailer (with its own list: Spyderpops Lighted Rear Bumpskid, LineX protection on sides, led trim lighting amber front& red rear, stand& tongue handle)THX Cruzr Joe!
    (pics in album)

  18. #18
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    WOW - Can am new engine PLEASE!!!!

  19. #19
    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    I would hope that they would give you a new one and then junk the old one as soon as possible! That's what I would do if I was BRP!!! I would not jerk around with this bearings rolling around in anything for 3000 miles is not a good thing!!! Good Luck!!!

  20. #20
    Very Active Member Freddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    I would hope that they would give you a new one and then junk the old one as soon as possible! That's what I would do if I was BRP!!! ............. Good Luck!!!
    Yes, that IS what a reasonable person would do, but BRP is not a reasonable person. The OP can live in hope for the time being but the fix detailed in the above service bulletin sure doesn't give him much.
    The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.

  21. #21
    Active Member 007james's Avatar
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    Kudos to a great Dealer! We need more like them. Truthfully, I wonder how many Dealer “Technicians” across the U.S. and Canada, would have NOT reported finding the loose Ball Bearings and Retainer Ring in the Oil and just refilled with new Oil & Filter, because its peak riding season, and they are backed with up to a month of service work to deal with ahead of them, as is the case with most multi Brand Dealers? Its amazing that the Spyder still shifted with the retainer ring not attached, or making any grinding sounds. This is another fine example of how we Spyder Owners are at the mercy of our Dealer’s , Technicians, as much as the Dealer Owners. If an over worked Technician working alone in a busy Shop decides to go on his per-scheduled Vacation, instead of opening a can of worms that will cause him to delay his booked Vacation plans,.....will he do what this honest Tech did, and report the finding of loose ball bearings, which will open an immediate can of worms for him, or just ignore the findings, knowing that the Spyder Owner will be back later, after he has time to deal with negotiating a new engine with BRP? Just food for thought, to those who rely on the Dealer to change their Oil.
    007James



    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
    This was all discovered in house at the flagship premium BRP authorised dealer. The owner of the dealership has has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me against this battle with BRP. He is someone who I've become friends with over the years where I purchased my previous 2008 Spyder GS I had for a decade before upgrading to this '18 F3L. I trust he will do whatever is within his power to get my Spyder addressed or replaced. I really WANT my Spyder because it's a 10th Anniversary Edition so I'll never find another new one like it.

  22. #22
    Very Active Member stmike 1800's Avatar
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    How much work to replace the defected parts as per bulletin.

  23. #23
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Magnetic drain plugs can tell a story, both good and bad.

    Upon first reading about what the tech found on your Spyder magnetic drain plug, my heart sank.

    As a person that has worked on vehicles valued much more than a Spyder, that may also have a magnetic drain plug, I want to share that the items captured by the magnet tell a story and give great insight regarding what next step should happen.

    I am not there to inspect the drain plug but offer this. The drain plug appears to have captured the steel balls. Not sure how the bearing cage was removed as it seems larger than the drain plug hole.

    Going further, the drain plug should be inspected for debris that is not the balls themselves, but rather bits of items that could be damaged, such as gearbox parts, from these balls getting tossed about. If there is not debris beyond normal captures on the drain plug, that indicates those steel balls may have not have done damage.

    With a bit of luck, the tech will be told exactly how many steel balls were contained within that failed bearing, and all are accounted for with no impact marks and no debris of concern on the magnet.

    With this known issue, BRP has probably rationalized the path of the failed bearing parts and would not suggest a simple replacement if further risks existed.

    Sorry to read about how many other issues you have had, but it does appear you have great dealer that will get your Spyder sorted out and take great care of it for you.

    All the best with this.

  24. #24
    Active Member Seattle's Avatar
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    You point out the very exact concerns I also hold regarding this failure. Due to the fact BRP has an existing bulletin for this "shift index lever" flaw, I'm a bit more anxious as to what else has been damaged within the engine and transmission. Therefore, I have requested for my technician if necessary, request for a complete engine replacement expecting that BRP likely will deny the request. I hope it doesn't come to this. Based on what others have shared about complete replacements can present a whole set of new problems in itself.

    I've put more miles on the four brand new 2018 RT loaners over the past 18 months than I have on my own personal Spyder that's been repeatedly in the shop for another ongoing issue of which BRP refuses to resolve. That particular issue isn't just isolated to my Spyder either which you'll discover in the linked discussion thread.

    For the most part, the BRP has created some very well built machines over the years, but on occasion there's a bad unit or two in the mix. That happens with any vehicle manufacturer. I've had a great run for a decade with the very first generation Spyder's that they've produced. I'm a stout ambassador for the brand and will remain as such. However, it appears I won the lemon lottery with this particular Spyder unfortunately. If it were not a 10th Anniversary Edition model, which I've come to sincerely like the visible aesthetics, I'd probably be considering replacement altogether. I would like to give BRP every chance to make things right even if there has to be a lot of back-n-forth haggling with them. I'll cross the bridge of no return should things just not work out for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navydad View Post
    I see the balls and I see the cage (little ring) that holds the balls in place. What scares me is what I don't see and that is any signs of the inner and outer bearing races. These are made from very hard steel and as a result are very brittle. When they get damaged they will splinter into very small pieces. These metal "splinters" are harder than most of the engine internals and will cause a LOT of damage if allowed to circulate around. They can also be small enough to move through the oil galleries and migrate just about anywhere in the engine. Since the balls and cage are loose one or both of those races is most certainly damaged. I would push HARD for a new engine.
    “Be who you are and say what you feel
    because those who mind don't matter and
    those who matter don't mind.”
    ... Dr. Suess

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  25. #25
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    This looks like the outer retainer for a thrust bearing. notice that its not split, so it didn't come from mid shaft but at the end of a shaft between that shift lever and the roller wheel at the end. I will bet you come out of this better then most here think.
    T.P.

    From the pic in post #10 your missing the roller wheel, you can see the groove that the balls sat in.
    BRP part # is 420248489 its a $20. part

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