THIS JUST PUBLISHED BY NHTSA

[Dragonrider]

We all hope this is true. If BRP threw in the towel, not only would there be no "fix" forthcoming, but everyone would have expensive collector's items, worth less than a Honda ATC 350X.

Folks remember, that when a solution is offered, it must be backed up with real world data. They will need to prove that the "fix" solves the issues documented.

 

[Magdave]

We all hope this is true. If BRP threw in the towel, not only would there be no "fix" forthcoming, but everyone would have expensive collector's items, worth less than a Honda ATC 350X.

Folks remember, that when a solution is offered, it must be backed up with real world data. They will need to prove that the "fix" solves the issues documented.

:agree: And they do not have the ability to delay forever before the $7k per day fines kick in. It will take some time after they have completed the document submission (and hopefully remedy) for NHSTA to sign off. A month or 2 is my guess as to when we have some answers. BRP has no legitimate reason to file for additional extensions at this point as far as documents go. A real fix submission:dontknow:

 

[jcthorne]

I sincerely doubt there is any proposed remedy with this submission. BRP is still in the denial phase. IE there is no problem and our bikes are no worse than industry standard. BRP feels the 2013s already meet all DOT and EPA requirements. This submission is only for them to prove this, or NHTSA to say they disagree, there is a problem and THEN ask for a proposed solution that BRP must prove works.

If this ever amounts to anything, we are a LONG way from recall notices and fixes. A year or more as testing would need to be done during the summer and there is no way it will be ready in the next few months. So we are looking at summer 2016 before any mandated fix is approved.

I hope I am wrong but BRP has not shown any interest in fixing what they have already sold. Once the NHTSA investigation started, any small hint of improvements or fixes just vanished. BRPs only answer now is just take your lumps and buy our new latest and greatest with lots of improvements users have been asking for....Except I already paid for all that.

 

[oldguyinTX]

Both opened well, on my IPad.
do you know if BRP submitted report on required date (dec. 2014)???
thanks for sharing

BRP did reply on the required date, although some items have been dismissed from the NHTSA requests #'s 32 & 33 as I recall, related to supplying body panels. They also asked for exclusions based on "Confidential Business Information". I was told by the investigator to expect this request by BRP. BRP also requested an extension - their second one - and the new due date is February 20. The response will be posted on the NHTSA website soon thereafter.

 

[cuznjohn]

i don't have a horse in this race anymore, but with the heat issue being documented with the government ( nhtsb ) and people still complaining the lemon law would get you your money and taxes you paid back. they might knock down the settlement due to millage but i am not sure with that

 

[oldguyinTX]

I sincerely doubt there is any proposed remedy with this submission. BRP is still in the denial phase. IE there is no problem and our bikes are no worse than industry standard. BRP feels the 2013s already meet all DOT and EPA requirements. This submission is only for them to prove this, or NHTSA to say they disagree, there is a problem and THEN ask for a proposed solution that BRP must prove works.

If this ever amounts to anything, we are a LONG way from recall notices and fixes. A year or more as testing would need to be done during the summer and there is no way it will be ready in the next few months. So we are looking at summer 2016 before any mandated fix is approved.

I hope I am wrong but BRP has not shown any interest in fixing what they have already sold. Once the NHTSA investigation started, any small hint of improvements or fixes just vanished. BRPs only answer now is just take your lumps and buy our new latest and greatest with lots of improvements users have been asking for....Except I already paid for all that.

NHTSA is testing Spyders in controlled conditions at two different testing facilities, and has been for some time. I was not told what particular testing was being done, only that it was "extensive". I do know that they are looking at many things. When I took my 2013 RTL in for yet another go around for excessive heat, boiling gas, fumes, dripping gas, one of the things that the ODI investigator told me was to have the dealer remove & weigh the evap cannister, and that if it weighed more than 458 grams, it needed to be replaced. My case manager at BRP told me that when this was done, it weighed 385 grams, which "Is within BRP specifications". So, NHTSA is ​working on this. Answers may come sooner than we think. (I hope!)

 

[jcthorne]

NHTSA is testing Spyders in controlled conditions at two different testing facilities, and has been for some time. I was not told what particular testing was being done, only that it was "extensive". I do know that they are looking at many things. When I took my 2013 RTL in for yet another go around for excessive heat, boiling gas, fumes, dripping gas, one of the things that the ODI investigator told me was to have the dealer remove & weigh the evap cannister, and that if it weighed more than 458 grams, it needed to be replaced. My case manager at BRP told me that when this was done, it weighed 385 grams, which "Is within BRP specifications". So, NHTSA is ​working on this. Answers may come sooner than we think. (I hope!)

Thanks for the insight and I sincerely hope you are right on the time line.

 

[finless]

I am going to have to do a canister replacement (under warranty) or a canisterectomy as my 2011 RTS now stinks after every ride.
For sure the canister is now saturated and not doing it's job anymore.

So this Evap canister is not just a 2013 thing as MANY have reported over the years.

I am due for my 14K service in about another 2 months.
This time I will be taking it to a dealer (instead of doing it myself) since I still have a year left of my warranty.
I am going to tell them to make sure they have the evap canister part available.

After that when it starts to stink up the garage after every ride, I will do a canisterectomy.
It's freaking stupid we have to live with this stink and worry about "flame on".
While I am not that worried and take extra precautions when doing a fill up, the stink is pissing my wife off with the garage.

What I do hope is that the Evap canister issues which SPAN ALL MODELS gets fixed by this action.

I don't have rider heat issues but the gas stink and worry about fumes spans all models based on what I hear from others.
This is a ROOT problem I think to the fires.
Heavy FUMES MEANS DANGER Will Robinson!

Bob

 

[ThreeWheels]

What I do hope is that the Evap canister issues which SPAN ALL MODELS gets fixed by this action.

I don't have rider heat issues but the gas stink and worry about fumes spans all models based on what I hear from others.
This is a ROOT problem I think to the fires.
Heavy FUMES MEANS DANGER Will Robinson!

Bob

I agree, this is a serious issue.
My 2010 used to stink up the garage, even though I had no overt heat issues.
On the other hand, I only smelled gas fumes from mt 2014 once, and that was a bonehead play on my part.
After fueling, I forgot to put the gas cap back on. The next time I got gas, I found the cap under the seat where I had left it.
No damage. The only thing hurt was my pride.
No smells before or since the bonehead incident.

 

[Magdave]

I am going to have to do a canister replacement (under warranty) or a canisterectomy as my 2011 RTS now stinks after every ride.
For sure the canister is now saturated and not doing it's job anymore.

So this Evap canister is not just a 2013 thing as MANY have reported over the years.

I am due for my 14K service in about another 2 months.
This time I will be taking it to a dealer (instead of doing it myself) since I still have a year left of my warranty.
I am going to tell them to make sure they have the evap canister part available.

After that when it starts to stink up the garage after every ride, I will do a canisterectomy.
It's freaking stupid we have to live with this stink and worry about "flame on".
While I am not that worried and take extra precautions when doing a fill up, the stink is pissing my wife off with the garage.

What I do hope is that the Evap canister issues which SPAN ALL MODELS gets fixed by this action.

I don't have rider heat issues but the gas stink and worry about fumes spans all models based on what I hear from others.
This is a ROOT problem I think to the fires.
Heavy FUMES MEANS DANGER Will Robinson!

Bob

I would have them check the purge valve too Bob. My belief is if it malfunctions the canister is soon to follow. I really think it may be the weakest link in the EVAP system if it purged enough often enough there would be no smell.:dontknow: Cars have a very similar system but have a lot more vacuum at the intake and lower RPM activation than the Spyder AFAIK

 

[oldguyinTX]

I am going to have to do a canister replacement (under warranty) or a canisterectomy as my 2011 RTS now stinks after every ride.
For sure the canister is now saturated and not doing it's job anymore.

So this Evap canister is not just a 2013 thing as MANY have reported over the years.

I am due for my 14K service in about another 2 months.
This time I will be taking it to a dealer (instead of doing it myself) since I still have a year left of my warranty.
I am going to tell them to make sure they have the evap canister part available.

After that when it starts to stink up the garage after every ride, I will do a canisterectomy.
It's freaking stupid we have to live with this stink and worry about "flame on".
While I am not that worried and take extra precautions when doing a fill up, the stink is pissing my wife off with the garage.

What I do hope is that the Evap canister issues which SPAN ALL MODELS gets fixed by this action.



I don't have rider heat issues but the gas stink and worry about fumes spans all models based on what I hear from others.
This is a ROOT problem I think to the fires.
Heavy FUMES MEANS DANGER Will Robinson!

Bob

Have them check the rollover valve as well.

 

[robmorg]

Have them check the rollover valve as well.

I've been doing a lot of reading on this and I have not yet come across any mention of a "rollover valve", although I probably missed it. Can you elaborate some more on that please?

 

[finless]

I have not seen one mentioned before here nor could I find any mention of it in the service manual so I do not think the spyder has one. They are usually on off road vehicles so if you roll over it keeps gas from running out. I think jetskis and snow mobiles have them too.

Bob

 

[robmorg]

I have not seen one mentioned before here nor could I find any mention of it in the service manual so I do not think the spyder has one. They are usually on off road vehicles so if you roll over it keeps gas from running out. I think jetskis and snow mobiles have them too.

Bob

Thanks, Bob. I just ran a search on the shop manual, and didn't find any mention of a rollover valve either. But such a thing would make sense in off-road vehicles.

 

[Dan_Ashley]

The rollover valve is right behind the handle bars and in front of the passenger seat. If you apply alcohol to it, it will probably malfunction.

 

[spyderbirds]

Tic TOC, tic TOC, tic TOC,

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6560 using Tapatalk

 

[cuznjohn]

it is right next to the muffler bearing and the Finnegan pin and right behind the nut behind the wheel

 

[flamingobabe]

my roll-over valve has been changed twice....changed nothing......purge valve changed once...no change....

 

[cuznjohn]

ok all kidding aside, does the bike have a tip over sensor, i know my bmw had one

 

[ARtraveler]

ok all kidding aside, does the bike have a tip over sensor, i know my bmw had one

Also on my Kawi's. I think they are on most if not all two wheelers.

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn: