RT HEAT ISSUE AND GAS SMELL

[Magdave]

Roger< I was one of those who did the testing for BRP on the new experimental equipment. It consisted of drilling about 50 1/2 inch holes at the back part of the seat compartment, a small exhaust shield, and reversing the fan below 6 MPH. In my case here in Tucson AZ, I notice almost no difference. The equipment was not in stalled till the 25th of Sept. when temps are lower also. Do not expect this to solve the gas fumes and heat if they make it a recall.

Simply not enough air flow using the 14 frame with the 13 998 Rotax engine. For those not aware the frame on the 13's were designed to use the 1330 engine. The 1330 was not ready so they retrofitted back to the 998 engine for 2013. The exhaust is routed much different on the 998 than the 1330. Therein lies the problem. Not enough airflow for the 998 exhaust heat.

If they make it a recall, this will be the third recall for the heat/fumes issue. These have all been cheap band aid fixes that have had little or no effect in change. Until some money is spent for a real fix those of us with the 2013 RT's will be unhappy. For those in the Northern climes and states you will have much less problems in these regards.

Jack

opcorn: Interesting and I agree with your assessment 100%. It is not the heat from the radiator that worries me it is under the Tupperware that does. Now that the melting parts are covered with tin foil they cannot be inspected for damage anymore and if those melted what is happening to the other rubber and plastic parts inside the Tupperware?:dontknow: The reversing fan has been bandied about for some time and some have done it already. I am sure it will make for a little more comfort on the feet at a stop but will have no effect on the interior heat. I wonder if BRP has tried a set of Jet Hot coated pipes and fully insulated the underside of the gas tank?

 

[jaherbst]

I don't seem to have the bad heat issues on my 2013 RT LTd like some folks have experienced. My temperature gauge is always below the half mark even in 90 temps. When stuck in traffic it may climb and the fans will certainly kick on, but I would expect that anyhow. The engine seems to run fine in all temps. In fact I think I had more heat related issues with my 2008 GS. The GS didn't run as smooth in hot temps and went into limp mode frequently. As far as the gas smell, I've experienced that on both of my spyders, but not that often, so it hasn't worried me much. One thing, I can add is, I always wear full protective vented gear (pants and jacket), riding boots and a full face helmet. I find the riding pants and boots keep me protected from the heat coming from the engine compartment and keeps me more comfortable, especially on those real hot summer days. I guess you can say the riding gear acts as it's own heat shield in some ways. I took a 2014 RT demo that my dealer had outfor a ride and liked how smooth it was, but didn't find the experience to be that much different than my 2013 as far as the fun factor goes. I will continue to enjoy my 2013 and hope it treats me well. To answer, the above question. I can say my 2013 seems normal as far as the heat and gas smell issues are concerned. It really hasn't been an issue for me.

It is the temps where you live. We are not talking about the engine temps here. Take about 30 minutes to heat up the gas tank. City driving is awful.

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

I know the 13 RT's get alot of heat attention but I dont believe they are the only ones. I know our 11 RT will literally put burns on my wifes legs from the heat coming up from the seat in the summer here in Phoenix. I just hope that BRP fixes ALL year's with the heat issues and gas fumes.

What I dont understand is how the design has changed so much from 10-12's RT to where the 13's seem to be more problematic in numbers for heat issues?

Frame change designed for the 1330 that was not ready. Used 998 in new frame. It is a frame that is not compatable with the 998 because of the exhaust routing.

Jack

 

[Dragonrider]

Much of what was discussed here was/is true for all of the 990s. Look back at the threads regarding canisterecotomys on the 2009 RSs and 2010 RTs.. Both would give "hot feet", and fuel smells until modified.

On my 2009, I did the full canister removal, and overflow line extension to the rear of the Spyder to remove the smell, and added aftermarket air ducts to remove the heat, and on the 2010, I just replaced the 3" canister outlet line with a 3' line under the bike. To relieve the heat, I removed the CAT, and replaced the muffler. This worked fine for them, and I was happy with the results. When the 2013s came out, it was quickly shown that the bikes frame had been changed radically, and intended for a different drive line, that was not installed. Now we know that the 1330 was intended to be introduced in 2013, wasn't ready for production, and the 990 was returned to service. These changes kept even more heat in the core of the bike, allowing enough heat to build up (in the right circumstances) to melt plastic housings and create fire hazards.

Bandaids were quickly implemented to lower the hazard level, while BRP assessed the risk level for the 13s, which, I assume, was deemed acceptable to them. Seeing the tupperware changes made to the 2013 RSS, one could assume similar changes are coming for the 2013 RTs, as soon as BRP verifies the changes are sufficient to lower the risk levels for ALL owners to acceptable (2010 to 2012) levels.

With the 2014s having the longitudinal 1330 in a frame designed for it, the problems with the V-twin design (hot rear cylinder) seem to have gone away, and core temperatures have been significantly reduced.

Going forward, BRP has a drive line that will serve them (and us) well, and, over time, the older design will offer diminishing problems for them.

This does not suggest that the issues surrounding the 2013s should be ignored, nor that a real "fix" should not be addressed. Just that having a v-twin encased in tupperware will always be hotter than an in-line motor, and that the final resolution will only bring the 2013s to a par with the 2012s and earlier bikes, which frankly, is a satisfactory solution, in my mind.

I put thousands of happy miles on my 2010, and I think most 2013 owners would be happy to do the same, if only they could. JMHO...

 

[Jim's_Spyder]

My 2013 has the heating and gas smell also. We have only had it a month or so, so we missed the real heat of summer. I noticed the heat and fumes much more on the few warm days that we had.
Its funny my wife rode it around the neighborhood a couple days ago. She was talking about how nice it was to have the warm air blowing over her right leg while she was driving.

 

[DaveL]

I had heat problems with my 2013 RTS SE5 from moment I bought it in July 2013. After the fixes from BRP I thought all was finally fixed until I had to have the canister replaced in July because gas was dripping from canister the vent hose after a ride (the smell was so strong I had to leave my Spyder outside until it cooled off). A couple of weeks ago I had the gas smell again so I took it back to the dealer and found out that the purge valve had failed and caused canister fill up yet again.

I did not feel safe riding my Spyder anymore so in frustration I traded my 2013 for a 2014 RT limited. All I can say is that the 2014 is night and day better in every respect than the 2013. There is no heat whatsoever on my 2014. On my 2013 when riding and stopping for gas I would raise up the seat and the gas cap and surrounding area would always be hot. All of the heat problems seem to be solved completely with the 2014. I really hated to trade after only 14 months. I got what I felt was the best deal possible but in the end I ended up paying way too much considering the value I lost on my 2013.

 

[Gray Ghost]

Here is what I have observed about the heat/gas smell on my 13 RT. If I am just running to town, doing errands, and maybe take a scenic route home, it is usually no big deal. Once the bike heats up, the amount of heat coming out the right side is about the same (in my opinion) no matter how long I ride. But the gas tank starts heating up and continues to heat the longer I ride. I start noticing the gas boiling in the tank when I open it up to refuel after at about the second fill up on hot days. If I am doing a 300-500 mile day, the gas will boil at some point. I also noted that if I looked in the tank with a light after filling up the agitation of the fuel was diminished but not totally gone.

On a recent three day 1400 mile trip I took temperature readings at gas stops. I was refueling at between 66 - 90 miles. The lowest gas temp was 112, the highest was 144, the temp at the metal of the tank inlet went between 109 and 156.

 

[Magdave]

I had heat problems with my 2013 RTS SE5 from moment I bought it in July 2013. After the fixes from BRP I thought all was finally fixed until I had to have the canister replaced in July because gas was dripping from canister the vent hose after a ride (the smell was so strong I had to leave my Spyder outside until it cooled off). A couple of weeks ago I had the gas smell again so I took it back to the dealer and found out that the purge valve had failed and caused canister fill up yet again.

I did not feel safe riding my Spyder anymore so in frustration I traded my 2013 for a 2014 RT limited. All I can say is that the 2014 is night and day better in every respect than the 2013. There is no heat whatsoever on my 2014. On my 2013 when riding and stopping for gas I would raise up the seat and the gas cap and surrounding area would always be hot. All of the heat problems seem to be solved completely with the 2014. I really hated to trade after only 14 months. I got what I felt was the best deal possible but in the end I ended up paying way too much considering the value I lost on my 2013.

And a lot of us would rather have the 1330 but it is not our fault that BRP decided to use an 998 engine on an incompatible frame on the 2013 and we should not have to pay for their poor choice. Now from this thread it seems they are still trying to fix their mistake with the least amount of $$ they can. 1 reversing relay + some BUDS update + 1/2" drill will not fix the 2013's problems. That probably cost them less than $5 for parts+ programming already exists from the 2014. If they are even close to wanting to fix it they need to address the headers and provide sufficient insulation to the gas tank and figure out a viable way to ventilate the engine. Coated header and the labor to do that is going to cost them quite a few more $$$ than they would like. If however they would like to give us a $5k discount coupon that can be used on discounted 2014's I might go for that but the real solution so no one else has a fire is to just buy them back. It has been done before and we have been patient enough waiting for a real fix. I do not see it coming so we are s$&^%ed.:dontknow:

 

[AlEverett]

Mesa Az. riding

The only way I can ride my 2013 RT-s in the hot months in Az. is too wear heavy jeans and leather chaps and boots. Otherwise I will get 2nd degree burns on my right calf. I then leave the bike outside for at least 1/2 hr. before putting in garage due to the gas smell. My 2014 RT-s that I keep in Wa. State on the eastern desert side of the state never has these problems. I could ride in shorts if I chose to and never get burned. I wish BRP would come up with a viable solution but I won't hold my breath. I may have to get the catalytic converter removed and JT's air cleaner but I'm not sure if that will solve the problem in Az. so I am reluctant to invest that much money.

 

[jaherbst]

The only way I can ride my 2013 RT-s in the hot months in Az. is too wear heavy jeans and leather chaps and boots. Otherwise I will get 2nd degree burns on my right calf. I then leave the bike outside for at least 1/2 hr. before putting in garage due to the gas smell. My 2014 RT-s that I keep in Wa. State on the eastern desert side of the state never has these problems. I could ride in shorts if I chose to and never get burned. I wish BRP would come up with a viable solution but I won't hold my breath. I may have to get the catalytic converter removed and JT's air cleaner but I'm not sure if that will solve the problem in Az. so I am reluctant to invest that much money.

Air cleaner and removing the CAT will not do it. I tried and wasted my money.

Jack

 

[jaherbst]

And a lot of us would rather have the 1330 but it is not our fault that BRP decided to use an 998 engine on an incompatible frame on the 2013 and we should not have to pay for their poor choice. Now from this thread it seems they are still trying to fix their mistake with the least amount of $$ they can. 1 reversing relay + some BUDS update + 1/2" drill will not fix the 2013's problems. That probably cost them less than $5 for parts+ programming already exists from the 2014. If they are even close to wanting to fix it they need to address the headers and provide sufficient insulation to the gas tank and figure out a viable way to ventilate the engine. Coated header and the labor to do that is going to cost them quite a few more $$$ than they would like. If however they would like to give us a $5k discount coupon that can be used on discounted 2014's I might go for that but the real solution so no one else has a fire is to just buy them back. It has been done before and we have been patient enough waiting for a real fix. I do not see it coming so we are s$&^%ed.:dontknow:

I agree with you 100%!

Jack

 

[obiwan57]

Was out today riding - 78 degrees and my RT was hotter than a pistol. Temp gauge 3/4 of the way up, radiator fan running almost constantly, lots of heat from the front of the seat. No gas fumes this time, wonder of wonders. I have had them in the past to the point that I left the bike outside until the fumes dissipated. This C**P about overfilling the gas tank is what is causing the fumes is just that - C**P. Parked the bike in the garage and raised to seat to let the heat escape. The backbone of the frame was so hot that I could only touch it for about 2 seconds. If BRP has a fix - and having the ECM upgrade done didn't do it - I wish that they would stop screwing around and sticking their heads in the sand and just fix the damn thing. I'm sick of getting nothing but B.S. from BRP about this problem. Just get it done already!

Unfortunately, it seems that the "fix" is the 1330 triple, versus the 998 V-twin. I'm new to the Spyder, having bought a 2013 RT Limited, and I can sympathize with the heat issues some have experienced. That right foot does get hot, and the warmer it is outside, the more you feel it. I came over from a Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic, and they are hot also, but the heat's not as concentrated in one area; my right foot gets very warm if it's much above 80 degrees out.

 

[stewartj239]

Air cleaner and removing the CAT will not do it. I tried and wasted my money.

Jack

I did both of those in addition to ceramic coating the headers / Y-pipe, insulating the gas tank, opening up the upper vents, drilling holes in the lower belly pans / skid plates and adding a PCV to not make the bike run so lean. I have gotten great results and the bike runs pretty cool now. The biggest problem with all of this is the money that it cost to make it happen ... it was not cheap.

 

[Bensonoid]

BRP definitely dropped the ball the way they put (threw) this thing together. I have way too much heat under the tupperware but I wear full riding gear so I'm insulated from a lot of it. The thing I hate the most is the dripping evap canister. I have to evaluate temperature, humidity, etc. and try to decide if it's safe to park inside or if she is going to "spit up" and needs to stay outside for awhile. I filed a complaint with NHTSA about the dripping gas but it all "boils" down to extreme heat under the tupperware.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

got the heat, got the smell, got a yamaha but i still ride the :spyder2: