R.I.P. Spyder 2683 up in flames

[BajaRon]

I've read a few of your post on the other board and it sounds like this could be a blessing seeing you weren't too happy with your Spyder to start with. I'm glad you got off before being burned and there was no other property damage.

If you had all the updates and they were performed to spec I'm guessing it might have been a loose fuel line seeing you said in another post about your trip that you were smelling fuel pretty much all the time now. That's just a guess but there have been a few cases where the hose to the fuel filter had come loose but was caught before anything happened.

I'm sure one way or the other you will be taken care of and I hope if you do get a new Spyder it will serve you better than this one did.

Has to be a bad, loose or otherwise faulty fuel line. If you're smelling fuel it's a good idea to figure out why, no matter what you're riding. Letting it go can be traumatic.

Sorry about the fire though. Not sure why BRP would say they never heard of this before. Was that a BRP rep or the dealership?

 

[billythekidd]

Very sad new indeed. Sorry to hear and then to see the pictures. Can anyone tell me if I should be concerned about this when I get my new RT...


Willy

 

[ntxYguy2009]

Glad to hear that you are okay. Sorry to hear about your Spyder. I hope things work out for you and that you are back on the road soon.

David

 

[Lamonster]

Very sad new indeed. Sorry to hear and then to see the pictures. Can anyone tell me if I should be concerned about this when I get my new RT...


Willy

I have yet to hear of a RT fire and I think in a little over two years I've heard of about 7 RS fires.

 

[DynamoBT]

Those pictures are something. I hope there is some way it can be figured out what happened. Though, there doesn't look to be a lot left of the Spyder to examine.

Sure glad you bailed in time not to get burnt yourself. Hope this resolves to your satisfaction.

 

[Firefly]

Sure sorry to hear about your loss-- but glad you were not hurt....

I'd be really interested to know if they re-routed that canister evap hose.... perhaps you can take some up close photos of the righthand side and post them out here---- we might be able to tell by looking at them.

We have not yet confirmed a fire happening to a Spyder that had the vent line re-routed or the Canisterectomy done.

I hate that canister.

 

[Bersquack]

Man, I hope you are ok!

 

[DragonSpyder]

I am betting on a loose fuel line. Mine was leaking before I changed out the clamps. Maybe the evap cannister but less likely.

 

[Firefly]

I am betting on a loose fuel line. Mine was leaking before I changed out the clamps. Maybe the evap cannister but less likely.

But what is the ignition source is the big question!

A hot pipe isn't going to ignite gas.... gotta have a spark or flame.

 

[grumpybob]

Glad you are okay! What a mess. Hope everything ends well for you.

 

[NancysToy]

But what is the ignition source is the big question!

A hot pipe isn't going to ignite gas.... gotta have a spark or flame.

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

 

[Director]

Right side...

And looking at the photos, it sure appears the point of origin was the right side. The burn pattern extends from the right and the damage is worse on the right side than on the left.

I'm glad you are physically okay anyway, Leo.

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[biker1]

Damn, what a charcoal mess. Hope you are okay. What the hell happened to cause that to happen. I have seen a couple of posts with bikes on flames but this is not good. Even after the insurance paying out, your premium will go up, and all that crap to deal with as well.
Wishing you all the best.

 

[Firefly]

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

 

[BajaRon]

I disagree! Normal exhaust gas temperatures range from about 1,000-1,300 degrees. That puts the pipes themselves at 600 degrees or more. The autoignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees. Pipes can, and have ignited gasoline. I worked at the race track for many years, including on the safety crew, and leaking gasoline will go up in a heartbeat when it touches hot header pipes. I have seen it many times, in the flesh. Leaking gasoline and hot pipes do not play well together!

After 33 years in the fire service I can say for sure that hot exhaust can ignite gasoline. Once vaporized it isn't all that hard to get ignition.

If you're smelling gasoline on a regular basis it's a good idea to check it out before it finds an ignition source.

 

[NancysToy]

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

Interesting article, but strictly that man's opinion...with some interesting suppositions and fudging of the scientific facts and the physics involved. Anytime an article has works like "I think" and "In my opinion", one has to be skeptical. I have no proof, other than first hand experience...and nobody's butt was sliding across the seat and making static. My opinions are worth no more than anybody else's, however. There are also a number of Internet articles that make a case for the opposite theory from the one you cited. What is needed here is real proof and published scentific facts. In the absence of that, we are all guessing...and I prefer to make my guesses on the side of caution. Even a hot air-cooled head will ignite gasoline. You can look at the char marks on one of my old Hondas if you want proof.

 

[BajaRon]

This article differs on this issue:
http://www.shadowaero750.com/files/fires.pdf

While certainly not a good idea, I've spilled gas on hot pipes and never had a fire. You can spill gas while filling up the Spyder and get it on the pipe below... but I've never heard of a fire from that. Seems this was considered a possibility on the Honda Shadow 750 bikes--- but was dispelled.

Anyone take a reading off the hot pipes with one of those guns?

Nice article and it has it's points. But it fails to take a few conditions into account.

1- The article is talking about a "Dead" or non running engine. Extreme exhaust temperatures plummet as soon as you shut the engine off. However, in all the fire cases that I am aware of the Spyder was running when the fire started.

2- The article assums, correctly, that a non-running engine exhaust will cool very quickly as it vaporizes the fuel. Well below the required ignition temperature. Again, this is not the case with a running engine, as in this Spyder fire. Vaporizing the fuel will only cool the exhaust slightly, at best, and only for an instant.

3- The article assumes an open engine compartment where the vaporized fuel can easily disperse, never reaching the needed fuel density for ignition. This is not the case in the enclosed engine compartment of our Spyder.

4- No one has mentioned a backfire in this case. But this is also a possibility with a running engine which this article does not take into consideration.

5- And with a running engine you always have the possibility of an electrical ignition source, spark plug wire or wire to plug connection, relays, just to name a few.

So while I would agree that, under the conditions prescribed in this article, there probably is not a great ignition hazzard. This article does not apply to what is going on here.

 

[YPILOT]

That is a terrible event and I hope you didn't injure yourself on the dismount. Looks like the only thing left undamaged is the tag on the rear.
As disappointed as you probably are I hope you are able to regain the feeling you had when you first got your Spyder. Good Luck, Dennis

 

[wvsquirrel]

Glad you are ok.

 

[Firefly]

Good points---I just wanted to make sure people realize that hot pipe + gas does not always (or even often) = fire.

I believe there's an electrical component to these fires-- and that the stupid canister has available fumes just waiting to ignite... then they quickly get fed by the tank line.... but that is all just supposition.........

I'd be curious to know what the real-world pipe readings are on the Spyder.