Non laser alignment

[iceworm]

Ron
thanks. Had most all that - okay, had all of that. Yes, considered using the term "rear wheel fore and aft centerline" instead of "vehicle centerline". Just needed a term to show the relationship.


Jumping subjects a bit. For all y'all:

As long as I have already kicked the hornets nest, what think y'all about this guy
http://www.gospyder.net/spyderwheels.html

Just a suggestion: After the first 20 or so posts on BAD IDEA, STOOOPID, GET A REAL ALIGNMENT comments, maybe a technical discussion concerning his methodology would be in order. I realize this may well be considered odd and way past reasonable ...... Just sayin

No, I'm not planning on doing this .... Not today anyway, or tomorrow, or next week. Next month or next year are to far away to speculate. Quien sabe?

 

[iceworm]

Responding to pk's post
Yes, meets my understanding. I recall working on a high school shop truck (50 years ago). The frame was bent far enough you could see it was crabbed going down the road. The truck centerline did not match with the direction of travel. As I recall we spent a lot of time going through the alignment

 

[Gray Ghost]

As I understand, the Brp spec of 0-.5mm is each side, giving 1mm total. The after market alignment max spec of 3mm would give 6mm total, about 1/4" (.243 actually). So, the specs discussed, 1.5mm - 3mm, that is each side, isn't it? From what I have read that would make the most sense.

The 2013 and 2014 service manuals gives BRP specs (non-ROLO style) as being 0 mm +/- 5 mm (0" +/- .2 in). That is the sum of both sides measured over 6 ft.

To compare the two standards, BRP spec is between 10 mm toe-out to 10 mm toe-in at 12 ft.

As long as I have already kicked the hornets nest, what think y'all about this guy
http://www.gospyder.net/spyderwheels.html

When he describes the "box" he states that it is 5 times the wheel diameter. It is actually 10 times the wheel diameter.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

jc -
Thanks for your response.
Please believe me: How I would measure this or if I am planning to measure this, was never part of my discussion. I am simply seeking a clear understanding of published specs. Apparently (to me anyway) I did not do very well expressing this.

Considering I have spent the last 50 years dealing with all things mechanical and electrical, I am rarely this dense. Yes, sometimes I am, but rarely.

Yes, from your previous post, I was (still am) pretty certain I could translate too: With steering centered, 1.5mm toe in, as measured across each 15" wheel to a vehicle centerline, giving 3mm total when measured clear across between the wheels.

Here is the part where I do not have a clear understanding.
For published specs, not casual conversation, for example, Brp 0 - .5mm, or others that do alignments saying 1.5mm - 3mm; is this measured across each wheel to a vehicle centerline?

Yes, I understand this "vehicle centerline" is a mythical math construct. I couldn't think of any better way to describe the measurement.

I know this is way too long. I'm trying to be accurate about what I'm looking to learn.

In a nutshell this is what is in the service manual for the 2013 RT. You lock the pitman so the steering cannot move. You clamp a 6' long straight edge to the frame so that it is centered with respect to an imaginary line between the wheel centers, 3' both front and rear. You put a carpenter's magnetic laser level on the brake disk. Measure the distance from the end of the straight edge to the laser beam, both front and rear of the wheel. Do 3 times rotating the rotor 1/3 each time. Average the front readings, average the rear readings, and find the difference, rear - front. Repeat for the the other side of bike. Add the two differences, paying mind to positive and negative readings. The spec for the total of those differences is +/- 5 mm. In other words, the spec allows the wheels to be toed in or toed out. If the left side front/rear difference is 0", then the right side difference can be up to +/- 5 mm. Note the 5 mm number is over a 6 foot distance. That would be +/- 1.04 mm front to rear on a 15" wheel, total between left and right.

The big shortcoming with the factory method is you have to remove the wheels, fenders, and frunk, and you use a tape measure to make the measurements. Tape measures are not real accurate, not because of marking deficiencies, but because of their flexibility and the difficulty of reading them accurately, especially when you're looking for differences in the 1/64ths of an inch range.

This help you any?

 

[Omcge]

It would be 1.5mm on each wheel. Still have no idea how you plan to measure this with any degree of accuracy.

I had both my spyders laser aligned and was told that both were in spec and didn't need anything.
My 13 RT was pulling to the right a little even when in the left lane. I made the tool listed below and checked my toe and it was toed out 3/16". I adjusted the right tie rod till I had 3/16 " toe in and now it's perfect.
Someone else had posted this, I don't know who it was.

 

[jcthorne]

I had both my spyders laser aligned and was told that both were in spec and didn't need anything.
My 13 RT was pulling to the right a little even when in the left lane. I made the tool listed below and checked my toe and it was toed out 3/16". I adjusted the right tie rod till I had 3/16 " toe in and now it's perfect.
Someone else had posted this, I don't know who it was.

If your bikes were laser aligned and IF they were both toed out and pulling to the right, whomever 'laser aligned' them did not have any idea what they were doing. In your defense, many CanAm dealers THINK what the factory manual spells out for alignment is a laser alignment. Its NOT a ROLO Laser Alignment.

 

[BajaRon]

Laser isn't a silver bullet. If the person using it doesn't know what they are doing it's no better than guessing with any other method.

 

[ARtraveler]

Have a local dealer that still likes the "2 x 4" alignment method. To much of an investment to go laser.

No other choice than to succumb when I needed it done on the 2011.

Two months later we met up with Ann and Joe from Squared Away. The said it was one of the most mis-aligned machines that they had ever seen.

Did the laser alignment on both my machines. They run like they are on a steel track and felt like new machines. Big difference when you do not have to "fight" the machine.