Manual Trans Riders - does downshifting/engine braking hurt?

[ZootieBrew]

In all of my years of driving cars and motorcycles with manual transmissions, I have always downshifted and used the engine to help brake the vehicle. However, I read in a different thread that this could possibly cause issues with the front sprocket, causing even more wear than with the recall alone. I certainly don't want to inflict any unnecessary damage/wear on the vehicle, so was curious what everyone thought. If you ride a manual, do you just brake or do you downshift to apply some braking? Have I been doing it wrong my whole life? or is this a bunch of crap?
Hopefully picking up my first 3-wheel Spyder tomorrow.
Thanks!

 

[Jdr00ejr]

In all of my years of driving cars and motorcycles with manual transmissions, I have always downshifted and used the engine to help brake the vehicle. However, I read in a different thread that this could possibly cause issues with the front sprocket, causing even more wear than with the recall alone. I certainly don't want to inflict any unnecessary damage/wear on the vehicle, so was curious what everyone thought. If you ride a manual, do you just brake or do you downshift to apply some braking? Have I been doing it wrong my whole life? or is this a bunch of crap?
Hopefully picking up my first 3-wheel Spyder tomorrow.
Thanks!

As mentioned elsewhere, I'm a hooligan rider - fast and aggressive. While my 2015 F3S is not the Manual, I do downshift and engine brake ALL THE TIME. It's so much fun riding in the power band. Using the engine to slow you and know you have the power when you need it to accelerate out of any circumstance is huge. That said, yes, some speculate that heavy engine braking does cause excessive wear on the front sprocket. I'm not at all convinced. I did replace my front sprocket because it had the red dust of death - but I've but 30k of super aggressive riding on it - and loads of engine braking - and my sprocket is showing no signs of wear/issues. My own personal opinion is that the installation of the sprocket with the proper moly paste and torque specs is far more important than avoiding engine braking.

 

[Navydad]

2015 RT with 50,000 on it. Ride hard, downshift hard, let engine do the braking. Most of this two up. Nanny is always on my case. 0 issues including sprocket problems. These machines are not as delicate as some believe. For every bike on here with issues there are a hundred without problems like mine. If I couldn't ride it like a motorcycle I would have gotten rid of it long ago.

 

[blacklightning]

My 2014 RT was manual and i downshifted it without any issues. With your model year, the main issue on those bikes is the front sprocket. Not all will fail, but the red dust of death will occur on some. But I do not feel that it is from downshifting. Enjoy and be safe.

 

[BajaRon]

Don't worry about it. If you're going to have front sprocket issues. Not downshifting isn't going to save it. I have a manual. I downshift for engine braking all the time. If I had to ride on eggshells, I'd get another ride.

 

[Jane1330]

Hubby races (anything with wheels) and he always tells me, "Brakes are cheaper then gears" :roflblack:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hubby races (anything with wheels) and he always tells me, "Brakes are cheaper then gears" :roflblack:

:agree::agree::agree: ..... I have said this many, many times :roflblack:....and have been soundly re-buked on this forum many, many times :roflblack: ..... So me and your Hubby are outlier's here ..... prepare for the on-slought :gaah:......Mike :thumbup:

 

[Jdr00ejr]

Hubby races (anything with wheels) and he always tells me, "Brakes are cheaper then gears" :roflblack:

:agree::agree::agree: ..... I have said this many, many times :roflblack:....and have been soundly re-buked on this forum many, many times :roflblack: ..... So you and your Hubby are outlier's here ..... prepare for the on-slought :gaah:......Mike :thumbup:

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Some racers love brakes, some racers downshift, different mindsets.

I want to ALWAYS be in the optimal power band so why not downshift and be ready roll?

Also - every notice that every steep grade has signs saying "Use Lower Gear"? Brakes can fade if over used. In fact coming down Pike's Peak - half way down they have a temperature check station where they heat check your brakes and don't let you continue if they are too hot.

100% agree that brakes are cheaper than gears - but that doesn't mean brakes are the best/only option. No one is saying slam a lower gear and only use the engine to brake. Engine braking like most things has a purpose and works great when done correctly.

And if this post is part of the feared "on-slought" I apologize - as I certainly don't see it that way.

 

[Lew L]

.

Being in the " right " gear at the right time mixed with proper braking is the most enjoyably way to get there quickly. Brakes are cheaper than transmission gears but this wimpy sprocket that BRP can't seem to fix in a timely manner is an embarrassment to the brand.

Lew L

 

[ARtraveler]

RE: "on-slought"

Contrasting opinions are always welcome. It is when we start "attacking" another for their opinion that the mods have to step in. State your opinion and don't criticize those who disagree with it. :bowdown:

And my opinion: I let the Spyder's shift down on their own. No engine braking except when I need to accelerate fast. SE6's in my garage. :bowdown:

 

[old Timer]

The answer to the OP's question is a resounding NO as long as you don't over rev the engine. Over revving the engine is causing the engine to rev higher than it's red line. Also you don't want to lock up the rear tire, easy to do in slippery conditions.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Some racers love brakes, some racers downshift, different mindsets.

I want to ALWAYS be in the optimal power band so why not downshift and be ready roll?

Also - every notice that every steep grade has signs saying "Use Lower Gear"? Brakes can fade if over used. In fact coming down Pike's Peak - half way down they have a temperature check station where they heat check your brakes and don't let you continue if they are too hot.

100% agree that brakes are cheaper than gears - but that doesn't mean brakes are the best/only option. No one is saying slam a lower gear and only use the engine to brake. Engine braking like most things has a purpose and works great when done correctly.

And if this post is part of the feared "on-slought" I apologize - as I certainly don't see it that way.

Let me clarify my " opinion " .... there are THREE reasons to " downshift " #1.- to minimize using the brakes as in a very steep down-grade ( and :agree: ) ... #2.- to use the engine as a Brake ( and hear the engine roar ) - I don't do this and #3.- To be in the Sweet Spot in the Twistie's ( and this I do ) ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Jdr00ejr]

Let me clarify my " opinion " .... there are THREE reasons to " downshift " #1.- to minimize using the brakes as in a very steep down-grade ( and :agree: ) ... #2.- to use the engine as a Brake ( and hear the engine roar ) - I don't do this and #3.- To be in the Sweet Spot in the Twistie's ( and this I do ) ...... Mike :thumbup:

Sign me up for all 3 please. ;-) LOL!

 

[Valkrocket]

21RTL here. IMHO these machines take way too long to downshift automatically. I always downshift manually, especially when a light turns yellow in front of me or approaching a stop sign at posted (sometimes a little above posted ) speeds. I find downshifting helps eliminate hard breaking.

 

[Saluda]

Not an aggressive driver, I do downshift and have never worried about it. I agree with an above post about the Spyder usually taking a bit too long to do it itself.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Hubby races (anything with wheels) and he always tells me, "Brakes are cheaper then gears" :roflblack:

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES.

If I wasn't clear, I heartily agree. Brakes are far cheaper than engine/transmission parts.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure someone on this forum would be delighted to correct me.

 

[Jdr00ejr]

The SE Spyders are designed to prevent excessive lugging which is why they downshift on their own - but as the design implies - its at a much lower RPM (just enough to prevent excessive lugging) not at an optimal power band RPM.

 

[BajaRon]

I've been riding all kinds of motorcycles, driven stick shift vehicles (I have 2 of them), including fire trucks and other large vehicles. I now have a shop where we do a fair amount of maintenance. I've replaced a lot of brakes and rotors. I've never had to replace a single gear or transmission component, other than a few clutches on dirt bikes and some automatics, which our Spyders are not.

It is true that brakes are cheaper than gears. But this ignores the fact that your gears will outlast the vehicle. And using the gears can increase the life of your brakes by a factor of 2-3 times, avoid warped rotors and increase your control over the machine.

Everyone is certainly entitled to ride as they see fit. I'm not judging anyone here. It's all good and we can always use the business! :joke:

 

[Steve W.]

Hubby races (anything with wheels) and he always tells me, "Brakes are cheaper then gears" :roflblack:

...

Also - every notice that every steep grade has signs saying "Use Lower Gear"? Brakes can fade if over used. In fact coming down Pike's Peak - half way down they have a temperature check station where they heat check your brakes and don't let you continue if they are too hot.

100% agree that brakes are cheaper than gears - but that doesn't mean brakes are the best/only option. ...

Back in my younger days, when I had cars with manual transmissions, when approaching a traffic light, I would downshift "to save the brakes". I was told that it was a noble effort, but it costs a LOT more to rebuild the engine when it wears out than it does to replace the brakes. I then stopped downshifting for routine stops, but like others, continue to "stay in the powerband" when driving enthusiastically.

For the OP, whether downshifting would do damage, a lot would have to do with how gently you let out the clutch. Letting it out quickly could put some shocks in the system that might increase wear a bit (sprocket, belt, gears), but feathering the clutch a bit to spread out the engagement should not be a problem.

Bottom line: if not done correctly, engine braking might lead to engine breaking. :shocked:

.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I've been riding all kinds of motorcycles, driven stick shift vehicles (I have 2 of them), including fire trucks and other large vehicles. I now have a shop where we do a fair amount of maintenance. I've replaced a lot of brakes and rotors. I've never had to replace a single gear or transmission component, other than a few clutches on dirt bikes and some automatics, which our Spyders are not.

It is true that brakes are cheaper than gears. But this ignores the fact that your gears will outlast the vehicle. And using the gears can increase the life of your brakes by a factor of 2-3 times.

Everyone is certainly entitled to ride as they see fit. It's all good and we can always use the business! :joke:

Well Ron, I have OVER 44,000 mi. on my RT's rear brake pads..... Of course they are your pads ( EBC ) .;.... I only got 30,000 mi. for the orig. OEM's ....... Mike:thumbup: