Is there a way to get more punch off the line?

[DickB]

Quote: The Pedal Commander increases (or decreases) the sensitivity of the twist grip, but does not improve throttle response. If you improve the sensitivity you improve throttle response. There is a big difference using one and not using one. No added hp, but delivering the hp quicker to you. Bottom line if you want one buy it.
David

This is Pedal Commander's definition of throttle response:
“… throttle response is actually a measurement of the time taken for a change in power output”.

Let's take this step-by-step:

1. Ryker has a throttle-by-wire system.
2. The twist grip sends a signal to the ECU to indicate its position.
3. The throttle is operated by a servo motor in the throttle body.
4. The ECU controls the throttle servo motor.
5. The twist grip signal to the ECU is an analog voltage, about 0V at no twist and 1V at full twist.
6. Pedal Commander plugs in between the twist grip and the ECU.
7. Pedal Commander alters the analog voltage from the twist grip to the ECU as per a graph published by Pedal Commander.
8. At 30% twist, the voltage out of the twist grip is .3V, while the Pedal Commander voltage to the ECU is .5V (in City mode).
9. At 50% twist, the voltage out of the twist grip is .5V, while the Pedal Commander voltage to the ECU is .7V (in City mode).
10. 50% twist without Pedal Commander delivers the same analog voltage to the ECU as 30% twist with Pedal Commander, which is .5V.
11. 100% twist in either case delivers 1V to the ECU.
12. The ECU is not altered by Pedal Commander.
13. Given the same voltage input to the ECU, the ECU is going to set the throttle position in the same manner.

(Please point out if you believe that any of these statements is not true.)

If I twist the grip 100% with or without Pedal Commander, per pedal Commander's own chart the signal to the ECU is the same, therefore the throttle is opened the same, in the same amount of time. How is that delivering the hp quicker?

 

[Piratezz]

@dickb,

I have both, Pedal Commander and specific for my riding needs, ECU tuning. I had the tuning before the Pedal Box, and the Pedal Box does make a difference. When you drive the Spyder without pedal box, you need to twist your wrist further than with the Pedal Box. 20% twist, is a further opened throttle body. I am absolutely not bashing anyone, but the Spyder picks up speed in an easier way.

Again, all the Pedal Box or Commander does is to send an increased signal to the ECU, thus opening the throttle body faster, making the overall feeling faster...

There is a downside to this Pedal Box - when driving relaxed and in Sport Mode, you need to keep your right hand quite still, cause every mm of twist or movement will give you a greater throttle response, making the bike nervous, altho it is easily settled by changing the setting.

For me it makes a difference - from my own experience.

 

[190243]

I’ll leave mine alone. It goes quick enough.

 

[Knizar]

I’ll leave mine alone. It goes quick enough.

:agree: The way I see it, your :f_spider: is like a pistol. Putting either "Pedal" on it is like grinding down the trigger mechanism, creating a hair trigger. The response can be extremely touchy. The "ECU Flash" is like adding gun powder to the bullet, making it go faster in a hurry. Adding "Both Pedal & Flash" turns it into an armor piercing weapon!
My stock 1330 Spyder "Could" kill me just as dead right out of the box. JMHO :thumbup: Bill

 

[Warlock]

This is Pedal Commander's definition of throttle response:
“… throttle response is actually a measurement of the time taken for a change in power output”.

Let's take this step-by-step:

1. Ryker has a throttle-by-wire system.
2. The twist grip sends a signal to the ECU to indicate its position.
3. The throttle is operated by a servo motor in the throttle body.
4. The ECU controls the throttle servo motor.
5. The twist grip signal to the ECU is an analog voltage, about 0V at no twist and 1V at full twist.
6. Pedal Commander plugs in between the twist grip and the ECU.
7. Pedal Commander alters the analog voltage from the twist grip to the ECU as per a graph published by Pedal Commander.
8. At 30% twist, the voltage out of the twist grip is .3V, while the Pedal Commander voltage to the ECU is .5V (in City mode).
9. At 50% twist, the voltage out of the twist grip is .5V, while the Pedal Commander voltage to the ECU is .7V (in City mode).
10. 50% twist without Pedal Commander delivers the same analog voltage to the ECU as 30% twist with Pedal Commander, which is .5V.
11. 100% twist in either case delivers 1V to the ECU.
12. The ECU is not altered by Pedal Commander.
13. Given the same voltage input to the ECU, the ECU is going to set the throttle position in the same manner.

(Please point out if you believe that any of these statements is not true.)

If I twist the grip 100% with or without Pedal Commander, per pedal Commander's own chart the signal to the ECU is the same, therefore the throttle is opened the same, in the same amount of time. How is that delivering the hp quicker?

I agree with a 100% throttle. But your statement states what I was saying. At 50% with the pedal commander vs none the voltage is greater which will open the throttle quicker. If there was a way to race with the flick of a switch from 0 to 100% a pedal commander wouldn't make a difference. If you and I were racing and went to 100%, on the way there we have to pass each parameter. Your 50% throttle isn't as fast as my 50%. That is why I say it delivers the hp quicker 'til you get to the 100% throttle. Not arguing but your stats prove what I was saying. I know an ECU flash will out do a pedal commander.
David

 

[DickB]

I agree with a 100% throttle. But your statement states what I was saying. At 50% with the pedal commander vs none the voltage is greater which will open the throttle quicker. If there was a way to race with the flick of a switch from 0 to 100% a pedal commander wouldn't make a difference. If you and I were racing and went to 100%, on the way there we have to pass each parameter. Your 50% throttle isn't as fast as my 50%. That is why I say it delivers the hp quicker 'til you get to the 100% throttle. Not arguing but your stats prove what I was saying. I know an ECU flash will out do a pedal commander.
David

Technically you're correct, but the difference between your 50% and mine is .02 seconds (I measured this electronically) - not significant in my opinion. Also, throttle opening speed is limited by the slew rate of the servo motor, which may mean no difference at all.

⁶

 

[DickB]

Also note that while Pedal Commander increases sensitivity at low twist, it decreases sensitivity at high twist.

 

[DGoebel]

Filters, (K&N or not), Oil, Tires, now this. You guys just love arguing and trying to prove your point as if others really care about YOUR point. I LOVE what my Pedal Box has done for my Spyder. The OP roguehawk hasn't even chipped in since he thanked the early responders and you few are just arguing "politics".
HEY, have ANY Pedal Box or Pedal Commander owners Removed them because they didn't get what they expected.
I get some of you want "something" that others may not "understand", but you're beating a dead horse :bdh: here. Now my oil is better than yours and I can look up internet stats to prove it.
(But, I'll accede that BlueKnight Mike is always right :bowdown: about tires, He is, and I always look to his latest recommendations when buying new tires, Thank-you Mike).
Just trying to end on an up note!

 

[Piratezz]

Mine would kill me a bit faster....

 

[Knizar]

Mine would kill me a bit faster....

hyea: But Y Rush it! :dontknow: No Pain, No Gain...:thumbup: Bill

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Filters, (K&N or not), Oil, Tires, now this. You guys just love arguing and trying to prove your point as if others really care about YOUR point. I LOVE what my Pedal Box has done for my Spyder. The OP roguehawk hasn't even chipped in since he thanked the early responders and you few are just arguing "politics".
HEY, have ANY Pedal Box or Pedal Commander owners Removed them because they didn't get what they expected.
I get some of you want "something" that others may not "understand", but you're beating a dead horse :bdh: here. Now my oil is better than yours and I can look up internet stats to prove it.
(But, I'll accede that BlueKnight Mike is always right :bowdown: about tires, He is, and I always look to his latest recommendations when buying new tires, Thank-you Mike).
Just trying to end on an up note!

Have you noticed that the above topics are usually debated during the WINTER months :2thumbs: ..... Also thank you for your faith in my thoughts on tires. ..... ( but I wouldn't say " I'm always right " .... close but not always ) .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[DickB]

Filters, (K&N or not), Oil, Tires, now this. You guys just love arguing and trying to prove your point as if others really care about YOUR point. I LOVE what my Pedal Box has done for my Spyder. The OP roguehawk hasn't even chipped in since he thanked the early responders and you few are just arguing "politics".
HEY, have ANY Pedal Box or Pedal Commander owners Removed them because they didn't get what they expected.
I get some of you want "something" that others may not "understand", but you're beating a dead horse :bdh: here. Now my oil is better than yours and I can look up internet stats to prove it.
(But, I'll accede that BlueKnight Mike is always right :bowdown: about tires, He is, and I always look to his latest recommendations when buying new tires, Thank-you Mike).
Just trying to end on an up note!

I'm not arguing politics; I'm having a technical discussion on how Pedal Commander works, what it does and cannot do. If you don't care to participate, move on.

I've never criticized anyone for using a Pedal Commander, and I won't. If you like it, fine.

The OP chimed in at post #37.

As I stated, I had a Sprint Booster on my car - Sprint Booster claims to have invented the technology 16 years ago. I took it off. I've seen used Ryker Pedal Commanders for sale, so I guess I am not the only one.

My complaint with Pedal Commander is the false claims made about their product. The most egregious one is this, made by Pedal Commander:

"The Pedal Commander will basically bypass the ECU in the vehicle. The controller is designed to take the information right from the accelerator pedal position sensor and compile it in a high speed controller circuit. It also slightly advances that number and then sends it directly to the ECU. By sending the information to the computer this way, a couple of checks that the engine computer will make can be bypassed before sending the signal to open the throttle plate."​

Look at the way that Pedal Commander is connected. How is this possible? I repeatedly asked the Pedal Commander representative how this "bypass" is done, and he dodged the question every time. Why? Because it is not true and not possible.

 

[Gwolf]

Just a little FYI from personal experience...........

If you get too much punch off the line, and get a good hook up with the rear rubber, you can call somebody to bring your trailer and order a new drive belt.

 

[blacklightning]

All I can say is that with 2 similar bikes, and the only difference being pedal box (or pedal commander), vs no pedal box (or commander), the one with the pedal box has always won when it comes to being able to come off the line. Even if the pedal box just increases reaction time, it still does the job. And yes, I know that it doesn't give any hp additions.

 

[DickB]

Have you noticed that the above topics are usually debated during the WINTER months :2thumbs:

 

[Beginner]

Flash ECU, better traction, better airflow - by modding box or getting the intake (filter selection matters), modify exhaust, add performance header, add turbo, etc. etc. This will cost a couple grand, if you're not doing it yourself then labor is going to be expensive.

If you watch a bunch of Ryker track vids, the Ryker gets off the line quick, it has problems topping out. I've watched it against sport bikes and corvettes etc. Ryker blows them away initially (well, the modified ones do).

I'm no bike guru, I've just read about everything I can get my hands on and watched Ryker track vids and looked at the mods. I want that turbo, but I will likely settle for the header and air intake this season - as soon as the snow stops.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Flash ECU, better traction, better airflow - by modding box or getting the intake (filter selection matters), modify exhaust, add performance header, add turbo, etc. etc. This will cost a couple grand, if you're not doing it yourself then labor is going to be expensive.

If you watch a bunch of Ryker track vids, the Ryker gets off the line quick, it has problems topping out. I've watched it against sport bikes and corvettes etc. Ryker blows them away initially (well, the modified ones do).

I'm no bike guru, I've just read about everything I can get my hands on and watched Ryker track vids and looked at the mods. I want that turbo, but I will likely settle for the header and air intake this season - as soon as the snow stops.

I've said this (or similar) a hundred times or more ..... Old school fixes/performance mods etc. do NOT work on/for Computer controlled engines - PERIOD .... Not for Spyders, Cars ... Trucks or anything with a combustion engine controlled by a computer.... The OEM computer will make adjustments to COUNTER-ACT any performance mods you add. If the computer isn't adjusted, you are wasting your money ..... good luck ... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Davgill2002]

I disagree. The Pedal Commander's primary function is to change the speed the butterfly opens, all settings allow it to open the throttle fully. I have owned two and they definitely get one across the intersection quicker than the stock set up.

 

[Peteoz]

I disagree. The Pedal Commander's primary function is to change the speed the butterfly opens, all settings allow it to open the throttle fully. I have owned two and they definitely get one across the intersection quicker than the stock set up.

The Pedal Commander is plugged in to the “OEM computer” (as Mike calls it), Davgill. It is not one of the old school fixes to which Mike was referring, but one designed to work WITH the OEM. So despite your “disagreement”, you are both effectively in agreement :2thumbs:

Pete

 

[Davgill2002]

Both are water resistant, neither are water proof. I hid my Pedal Commander under the tupperware (zip tied) and use the cell phone software exclusively for adjustments.