Got my PC5 and autotune installed...

[Sny]

...and it definitely helps with some issues...

but I still backfire and pop and sputter from 3k to 5k so there's something else wrong. going to have to look over everything closely.

Anyhow, Wondering what others set their autotune a/f targets up like?

I did 14.0 in the 0% column from 500-1500
then 13.8 from 2% thru 80% down to redline
and 13.4 at 100% to redline

It seems like the autotune is having to do some massive adjustments to keep the light throttle mixture at 13.8



Then right after 5000rpms all is well. Seems odd... like the ECU has something different in mind.

Those numbers are % duty cycle trim. So 40 means add 40% more fuel :yikes:

 

[Sny]

Autotune did. Not really a big fan of how the jb works. I really like having a high resolution o2 sensor driving things.

More importantly, if you do have problems with the jb you are pretty much guessing at how to fix it.

 

[Campverdefela]

What made you go with that set up over the JB? Gator set my JB when I first rolled out in April and I had no issues since.

:agree: I like the simpler is better, my setup has performed flawlessly for 2 years now. If it goes bad I will just unplug to go back to original and probably replace with a similar setup. However I understand that some of us like to super tweak....

 

[Sny]

That was the idea of the autotune. You set it and forget it. Forever. And it adjusts to all of the changes that might occur.

With the jb, you set it and then if you change anything, you have to set it again.
If the weather changes, you set it again.
If you travel through the mountains, you set it again.
As your bike ages, you have to tweak it to keep the best performance, fuel economy and driveability.

You could just deal with it. Most people do. But if you can just live with lower mileage, performance, smoothness etc then why get anything?

Anyhow, not at all trying to convince anyone, just trying to answer why I choose the autotune.

 

[aka1004]

I think your target afr might be too lean.
I had my afr as low as 12.8 at low throttle and ran better but burned too much fuel.
It may not be a coincidence that you get backfires in 3-5000 rpm where huge fuel trims are.
I had little backfiring and adding little fuel manually at right rpm and throttle range took care of that.
I had little backfiring at 4000 rpm at 0% throttle and 15% fuel did the job.

Try a little lower target afr, like 13.6 than gradually richer in higher throttle.
I think mine was at 12.6 at 40% throttle and higher but 13.6 at 40% and below at 6000 rpm for better cruising mpg.

 

[Sny]

You wouldn't happen to have your map file would you?

I did have an issue where it wouldn't idle after I richened it to 13.4 from 2000-5000 at 0% throttle... thought that was a bit odd since I didn't change anything below 2000.

If the weather would cooperate I'd be able to play more. :doorag:

 

[aka1004]

Maps are lost but I started with 13.6, all the way down to 12.6 at 80-100% throttle and just little fuel at rpm range where I was getting backfires at decel.
O2 plugin was supposed to handle the job in closed loop but adding fuel manually did make a difference.
I think the o2 plugin is set at 13.8 from factory.

Oh and I added a little fuel with accel-pump to help With start of acceleration.

If your spyder wouldn't idle at 13.4, there may be different problems. I had mine way below that and ran good.

 

[Sny]

Oh and I added a little fuel with accel-pump to help With start of acceleration.

Explain?

I tried adding fuel to 0% throttle to help the transition from off the throttle to back on it again and that's when it wouldn't idle without "help".

If your spyder wouldn't idle at 13.4, there may be different problems. I had mine way below that and ran good.

Oh, I'm sure there's something funny going on. Probably a leaking hose somewhere. Gotta find that first before playing with this too much more.

 

[aka1004]

There is a function called accel-pump in pcV to give you little more fuel at the beginning of acceleration to close the gap between afr at idle and open throttle. Its been a while but you access it thru one of tab in pcV software.

Try lowering the afr at 2% throttle where heavy trim occurs.

 

[Sny]

ahh, I know there's an accel pump feature in the pc3usb but didn't see it in the pc5.

I'll find it and give that a shot.

I was reading some stuff from dynojet and they said don't use the 0% column to add fuel to combat popping, just add the values straight to the fuel table and zero out that column in the autotune tables. That answers why that didn't work

 

[StriperKing]

You do not want to change values to the closed loop portion of your map. All you are doing is fighting the 02 optimizer. You need to add or subtract fuel through the USB port of the 02 optimizer for the closed loop area and the 02 optimizer will then use the new settings for the closed loop area only. This will make your bike run much better. I also agree that you are running way to lean. I personally found 13.0:1 to be the best for performance and I can still get 32 MPG at times.
The auto tune will be over-rode by the 02 optimizer in the closed loop area.

 

[Sny]

I guess I don't get it...

The o2 optimizer (same as the o2 eliminator except adjustable?) just sends a constant a/f signal to the ECU... so won't that mean that the ECU won't be trying to adjust anything (based on a/f that is) ?

So I have to assume that the o2 optimizer is not the same and does not send a constant signal... so then what does it do? It has no inputs other than the stock o2 sensor... no idea what rpm, temp, throttle position, nadda...

How do you clean up the 3500rpm messy spot that most/all spyders have if this is the case?

I'm sure I could just call them and ask, but this is more fun

 

[Sny]

There is a function called accel-pump in pcV to give you little more fuel at the beginning of acceleration to close the gap between afr at idle and open throttle. Its been a while but you access it thru one of tab in pcV software.

I can't find any documentation on the accel pump settings for the pc5. I enabled it but it error'd out without proper settings. It has a throttle input, a revolution input and a fuel trim. I hate to just throw numbers in there.

Try lowering the afr at 2% throttle where heavy trim occurs.

I would love to but I think changing the autotune map in that range just makes it go crazy fighting with the ecu. According to dynojet you shouldn't put anything at all in the 0-39% range. (see above)

 

[Sny]

It's mostly academic right now... I've spent like 20 minutes actually playing with this...

I post my random brain ramblings while at work to vent excess pressure

 

[Sny]

I have to post this...

There is a lot of confusion regarding the tuning of Acceleration Enrichment. It is far easier to tune AE if you under the underling causes and effects.

There are a few that we have to consider. (Hang with me here)

1) You may remember from high school physics that water will boil at close to room temperature if you pull enough vacuum on it. Conversely, if you apply pressure you can raise the boiling temp up to 250F or more.

2) Water on the driveway always evaporated faster on a windy day than it does on a calm day.

3) Water on the driveway always evaporated faster on a hot day than it does on a cool day.

4) If you leave a cold glass of beer on the counter water droplets form on the side of the glass, apparently water from nowhere.

5) Cold air has more oxygen molecules per cubic foot that hot air.

6) A VE table is designed to balance the amount of fuel delivered from the injectors with the air flow. The internal math of the ECU estimates this airflow and in turn calculates the matching injector pulse width. This airflow calculation is based on intake air temperature, RPM, intake manifold absolute pressure (KPA), and RPM.

7) An intake manifold often has hot water in it. This manifold is attached to hot things and is being blown on by constantly changing amounts of hot air coming off of the radiator and from the exhaust system.

8 ) An intake manifold has a constantly changing amount of air properties and the amount of fuel that can condense on the walls.

9) Fuel in the intake constantly collects on the inside walls of the intake.

10) The amount (thickness) of this layer of fuel is constantly changing.

11) The earlier the fuel is injected in the intake airflow, the more area of the intake wall can get wet.

12) Back pressure on the exhaust, weather caused buy high atmospheric pressure at the end of the exhaust system or by trying to flow too much exhaust through the system causes the motor to need less fuel.

13) The injector delivers fuel only after it has opened. The injector opening time consists of about the first 1.0 millisecond of the pulse width. So if the logs report 10 ms pw1 the injector is only supplying fuel for about 9 ms. This is a big deal if you have a cruse pw of say 4ms and your AE added pw is 6ms. The amount of fuel delivered goes from (4-1) or 3ms of fuel to (4-1)+6 or 9ms or three times the fuel. Plenty of fuel to put out the fire.

14) Way too much fuel feels just like way too little fuel from the driver's seat.

15) Fuel collecting in the walls and floor of the intake behaves much like the water examples above.

 

[darren]

there has been info on this site not that long ago, about the auto tune one person said all you do is fit it on the bike and as long as you have the base map loaded all you do is start riding the bike and let the auto tune do its job, thats why they made it and called it a Autotune to stop the cofusion of tring to set the correct tune to the bike.

 

[Sny]

Oh, absolutely. That's what sold me on it.

However the documentation seems to contradict that. The whole closed-loop-is-flat kinda takes away from the concept.

Autotune only controls open loop. Bummer. Open loop is easy. More fuel. Closed loop is what needs all the tweaking!

 

[aka1004]

My pcV and autotune were installed by dynojet and was told to add fuel manually on trim table to eliminate backfiring, and yes in closed loop.
If the o2 plugin is still the same, they are selectable not adjustable.
You will have to dig the switches out of the goo in the plastic casing. It looks something like those programable garage opener inside.

Does autotune works? Definitely yes.
Is it set it and forget it? Almost.

I do know that when it's really hot and I'm sitting for awhile and spyder starts to act up, autotune does make adjustment. I am sure it's making adjustments continuously but that's when it's most noticeable.

 

[darren]

My pcV and autotune were installed by dynojet and was told to add fuel manually on trim table to eliminate backfiring, and yes in closed loop.
If the o2 plugin is still the same, they are selectable not adjustable.
You will have to dig the switches out of the goo in the plastic casing. It looks something like those programable garage opener inside.

Does autotune works? Definitely yes.
Is it set it and forget it? Almost.

I do know that when it's really hot and I'm sitting for awhile and spyder starts to act up, autotune does make adjustment. I am sure it's making adjustments continuously but that's when it's most noticeable.

To me thats like saying to my son yes the dog bits but almost never leaves teeth marks, I understand what you are saying and thats great but for people like me who are thinking "Im going to buy one of those autotunes because it takes all the problems tring to tune the darn thing"because it said it doe's. maybe they should name it the SE autotune? but thanks for all the help with what you and others have gone thur im just going to sit on the fence till it says total autotune
thanks heaps

 

[Sny]

Honestly I haven't really "gone through" anything... I threw some numbers in there... they were wrong... I loaded a "known good map" and rode 1800 miles and got 34mpg. Figured that was a bit lean but at $4/gal I'm not complaining!

I just loaded a map from Striperking to see what a more performance oriented map is like.

All my questions are for my own education... I could have just as easily installed it, loaded the recommended map and left it alone That part is really simple, easier than a JB that's for sure