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Gas Gauge showing Full when tank is not - Why?

That post wasn't having a go at you Cirhere, just responding to Ron's post above it. ;)

But there is a lot of discussion about the inherently inaccurate gas gauges here on the Forum, some with diagrams and pics of the odd tank shape that contributes so much to the issue, AND ALSO that makes it so bloody hard to properly fill your tank! :gaah:

But as rjinaz mentions above, as with many fuel injected engines these days, the fuel pump (& sender) are immersed in the gas tank, and both the pump and the entire fuel injection system use the gas remaining in the tank as both coolant and lubricant for their extremely fine tolerance components, so you MUST leave enough gas in the tank to keep it all lubricated AND to sufficiently disperse the heat these high speed/high pressure fine tolerance & often PLASTIC components run at!! If you don't, you WILL be damaging those very important components! The bits that make them work & keep your engine running as powerfully and as economically as they can are often running so close together that even just a single molecule of water between them can be too big for them to handle without damage; but luckily that won't cause instant destruction &/or stoppage, or probably more correctly, UNluckily, cos if you try to compress tiny molecules of water under high pressure when there's enough heat around, they'll instantly flash to superheated steam that'll instantly melt any high quality steel the superheated steam comes into contact with, so you can imagine the damage that'll do to plastic!! And while that damage might not cause instant stoppage cos it's microscopic to start with, every time that tiny bit of damage rotates past its opposite component, usually in a marginally different place to the last time it went round, where it'll create even more damage, damage that only grows and ultimately destroys these very critical parts of your bike! :yikes:

So there's really no solution that anyone but BRP/Can-Am could apply to this issue, but even if they did, it wouldn't ever be back-dated even if it was applicable to the earlier models; and the only safe 'fix' is to NEVER RELY on your gas gauge, cos it's inherently inaccurate & unreliable due to the shape of the tank and the design of the fuel pump & sender! :gaah:

Bugga! There's ANOTHER 'never'!! :banghead: :rolleyes: :p

The “lubricity” of gasoline is practically nil. There is no barrier film protection provided by the gasoline to protect against any mechanical wear. Gasoline as a coolant for the pump is a rather dubious statement. When the engine depletes the fuel it and the pump shut off. The operating temperature of the in tank fuel pump is very low and insignificant to create any meltdown of any part. If true, the motorcycle would explode.

I have never seen one of these Spyder fuel tanks, it’s pump or the sending unit to make an accurate statement about its design and limitations. Filling the gas tank with the station pump nozzle is a difficult task with the design of the filler neck and its safety device used in my local area. The fuel gauge seems to read accurately after filling it up in my experience. The distance to empty is a scientific wild ass guess factored by a scientist who evidently got a D in class. Based on my own usage the gauge is at best a suggestion if making repeated regular short trips. I have not had the opportunity yet to make a trip long enough that I needed to stop and refill from total depletion so I don’t know how the fuel gauge performs on a lengthy trip compared to regular commuting. My best advice is for each to learn over time what to expect as it may differ from others use.
 
The “lubricity” of gasoline is practically nil. There is no barrier film protection provided by the gasoline to protect against any mechanical wear. Gasoline as a coolant for the pump is a rather dubious statement. When the engine depletes the fuel it and the pump shut off. The operating temperature of the in tank fuel pump is very low and insignificant to create any meltdown of any part. If true, the motorcycle would explode.

I have never seen one of these Spyder fuel tanks, it’s pump or the sending unit to make an accurate statement about its design and limitations. Filling the gas tank with the station pump nozzle is a difficult task with the design of the filler neck and its safety device used in my local area. The fuel gauge seems to read accurately after filling it up in my experience. The distance to empty is a scientific wild ass guess factored by a scientist who evidently got a D in class. Based on my own usage the gauge is at best a suggestion if making repeated regular short trips. I have not had the opportunity yet to make a trip long enough that I needed to stop and refill from total depletion so I don’t know how the fuel gauge performs on a lengthy trip compared to regular commuting. My best advice is for each to learn over time what to expect as it may differ from others use.

Dammit!! :shocked: That first para above means the whole automotive industry has got it wrong then, and the millions of ICE powered vehicles out there running EFI Engines with fuel pumps immersed in their gas tanks for the very reasons I passed on simply won't work!! :gaah:

I'll be sure to pass that on.... Sorry. :rolleyes:


Oh, BTW, I HAVE seen more than one Spyder gas tank, the pump inside it, and the fuel gauge sending unit; and I HAVE seen the damage that occurs to fuel pumps and injection systems when the remaining gas in the tank gets too low to effectively carry out its task of both cooling and lubricating those components. And, I've also even been lucky enough to discuss & explore this whole concept quite extensively with a bunch of engineers who are amongst the leaders in the game of working at designing, fixing, & improving these things, but what would they know. :dontknow:

But, as I've said before & probably will again, I've just passed on the knowledge; you can either ignore it, laugh at it, or choose to do with it as you will, it's YOUR choice. :thumbup:



Ps: Even water can act as both a coolant and a lubricant in some circumstances, I'd guess that you can probably think of a few. ;) The trick is that whatever you choose to use is readily available and then it just needs to be cooler than whatever is running in it/it needs to ccol; and as a lube, at a molecular level, it needs to fit into the gap between the components that it's intended to keep from contacting/wearing. :thumbup:
 
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Dammit!! :shocked: That first para above means the whole automotive industry has got it wrong then, and the millions of ICE powered vehicles out there running EFI Engines with fuel pumps immersed in their gas tanks for the very reasons I passed on simply won't work!! :gaah:

I'll be sure to pass that on.... Sorry. :rolleyes:


Oh, BTW, I HAVE seen more than one Spyder gas tank, the pump inside it, and the fuel gauge sending unit; and I HAVE seen the damage that occurs to fuel pumps and injection systems when the remaining gas in the tank gets too low to effectively carry out its task of both cooling and lubricating those components. And, I've also even been lucky enough to discuss & explore this whole concept quite extensively with a bunch of engineers who are amongst the leaders in the game of working at designing, fixing, & improving these things, but what would they know. :dontknow:

But, as I've said before & probably will again, I've just passed on the knowledge; you can either ignore it, laugh at it, or choose to do with it as you will, it's YOUR choice. :thumbup:



Ps: Even water can act as both a coolant and a lubricant in some circumstances, I'd guess that you can probably think of a few. ;) The trick is that whatever you choose to use is readily available and then it just needs to be cooler than whatever is running in it/it needs to ccol; and as a lube, at a molecular level, it needs to fit into the gap between the components that it's intended to keep from contacting/wearing. :thumbup:

:agree: with Peter 99% .... On the Lubricity thing, I don't think the Fuel pump gets any " lubricity " from the Gas. ... It does Require the gas to help cool it ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:
 
I don't necessarily think the gas gauge is that terribly inaccurate! All you have to do is visualize two invisible bars at the top and one invisible bar at the bottom for a total of twelve bars. I find by doing that I generally get about 15 miles or so per bar, top bar to bottom bar. The top visible bar disappears after about 45 miles and when the gas light comes on there are two bars, one visible and one invisible, of gas left for about 30 more miles. And then there's still some left that you don't want to use up or you'll be stranded or suffer the consequences Peter warns about!
 
:agree: with Peter 99% .... On the Lubricity thing, I don't think the Fuel pump gets any " lubricity " from the Gas. ... It does Require the gas to help cool it ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:
The electric fuel pump does not get cooled by the gasoline. The motor does not run hot nor does the pump generate any significant amount of heat. Gasoline and/or water are not lubricants. Diesel fuel is different. I don’t know where you all heard this but that certainly is unique news to me but posting smileys in a debate does not make it true. When the gasoline level runs out the fuel pump is shut off. EFI engines have a fuel rail pressure sensor and a pressure valve. The ignition switch has to be recycled to get the pump to activate again. It is calibrated to achieve a certain amount of pressure in a given amount of time. The electric fuel pump motor is very robust and capable of much higher fuel pressure than required and much more volume than needed. The EFI fuel pump sits inside the fuel tank in a plastic bucket to maintain a volume of gasoline around it to prevent cavitation and loss of pressure during driving creating the fuel to slosh around where it might not be reached by the pump inlet. That bucket is there to help the pump maintain its prime. This bucket also happens to be a good place to mount a fuel sending unit and manufacturers call this assembly a module.
 
I don't necessarily think the gas gauge is that terribly inaccurate! All you have to do is visualize two invisible bars at the top and one invisible bar at the bottom for a total of twelve bars. I find by doing that I generally get about 15 miles or so per bar, top bar to bottom bar. The top visible bar disappears after about 45 miles and when the gas light comes on there are two bars, one visible and one invisible, of gas left for about 30 more miles. And then there's still some left that you don't want to use up or you'll be stranded or suffer the consequences Peter warns about!

Two things....
Idaho, I hope you don't mind, but I laughed really hard at your post. The invisible bars on the guage. Gold. Thank you. Makes me glad I stopped in to read this one, I figured there would be a bunch of (good) info about using the trip meter and filling the tank full up each time, I almost skipped by this one.

the other thing (#2 if you will) is agreement about milage varying. Interstate travel sucks the gas, and I stop about every 150 miles, more for me, since I'm ready for a break about that time, and a fuel stop just fits then. 2 lanes I seem to be able to wrangle with that magic 200 mile mark without getting the low fuel warning.

Thanks to all, even the long-winded Peter, I try to learn from everything I read here, well, almost everything.
 
Hi, I have a 2010 Spyder RTS 998 and it just started doing this. I fill my gas tank, and it won't show full; it shows one bar less than full. What could this be?
Thank you
 
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You are not filling it full. If you use auto shut off, it just goes off to early for the shape of the tank.

I fill to shut off. Add gas up to the ring. Let it settle for a couple seconds. Re-fill to the ring again. The 998's could be overfilled if not careful. My method works, but twice and done should be the rule. :bowdown:
 
Hi, I have a 2010 Spyder RTS 998 and it just started doing this. I fill my gas tank, and it won't show full; it shows one bar less than full. What could this be?
Thank you

Have same problem with mine couple years now(@81k miles), unfortunately only fix maybe replacement sending unit $500+& discontinued. So been dependent on trip meters & not overfilling, usually gauge will increase couple mile away but rarely ever actually up to full. Cause: I’ll blame too many additives in fuel & crummy parts not lasting.
 
Hi, I have a 2010 Spyder RTS 998 and it just started doing this. I fill my gas tank, and it won't show full; it shows one bar less than full. What could this be?
Thank you

Is your charcoal cannister still connected ???? .... if so overfilling the tank will cause problems ..... I have pics with explanation in one of my albums ..... this works .....Mike :thumbup:
 
I have a 2020 RTL I filled up went about 100 miles stopped and shut it off and when I started it up the Gas gauge is showing full, What would cause that

My analog gauge is ultra consistent. At 3/4 I have gone 70 miles, 1/2 120, 1/4 170, light comes on around 200. One station in MO where the apron slopes with the rear tire down and the right side is lower the numbers are 100, 150, 200 and light comes on around 225. I work to get it topped off good but the orientation of the tank lets me get extra also.
 
An alternative to those who won't bother resetting the trip meter, or who have no idea what their MPG is, or who otherwise wait until the engine is stalling out from a lack of fuel, is to just carry a gas container with them with a gallon or so of gas. Of course ideally it would be in crash proof containers, but it could just be a plastic gas container bungeed to the Spyder. Its your bike, your time, your peace of mind so do whatever floats your boat.
 
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