Front Sprocket Spline Failures

[toolie]

In view of the failures of front pullies was just thinking. Who has pulled their pulley and either put spline grease or locktite to stave off future failures and what did you use? And who suffered a failure because of a dry spline?

 

[PMK]

In view of the failures of front pullies was just thinking. Who has pulled their pulley and either put spline grease or locktite to stave off future failures and what did you use? And who suffered a failure because of a dry spline?

Months ago, I removed the front pulley from our 2014 RTS. From the original build, the splines were lubricated. Washed the pulley and output shaft, inspected and found no wear. This was done prior to Can Am having a recommended lubricant in the TSB. I utilized a different product, but publicly will recommend that owners follow the service instructions recommended lubricant.

 

[Eckhard]

Where do we get a copy of the TSB?

 

[toolie]

PMK are you saying that your splines were lubricated from the factory?

 

[larryd]

I just serviced my 2014 RTS and I checked the splines and they also appear to be lubed...

 

[h0gr1der]

I got the new 2019 service manual for the RT, there's a lot more info in there than previous versions.. The front sprocket is listed a greased with Kluberpaste 46 MR 401. It's expensive as all get out for grease, but maybe it works miracles.

MSDS suggests its composition as: Chemical characterization (preparation): Polyalkylene glycol oil, lithium soap, solid lubricants (e.g. phosphates)

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

" Red Dust" spline issue

I find this issue interesting …. to the best of my knowledge … this was never a problem with the RT …. Why is it an issue with the F-3 ???? ….. Could this be similar to the DESS Fiasco ….. Not a problem until some engineer decided it needed Fixing …. NOW there is a problem … Is this a Canadian thing ????? ………...….good luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[wingit3611]

I find this issue interesting …. to the best of my knowledge … this was never a problem with the RT …. Why is it an issue with the F-3 ???? ….. Could this be similar to the DESS Fiasco ….. Not a problem until some engineer decided it needed Fixing …. NOW there is a problem … Is this a Canadian thing ????? ………...….good luck …. Mike hyea:

Does that mean what it sounds like, ThatRTL SE5 just don't have the problem. Except for some normal wear an tear.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Does that mean what it sounds like, ThatRTL SE5 just don't have the problem. Except for some normal wear an tear.

From what I have read about this …. RT - RTs - RTL do not have the Red Dust issue ……. Mike hyea:

 

[Spyderlass]

I'm reading this thread and looking at the links, I'm mystified by the responses, the red dust is rust, the splines aren't wearing out, they're rusting out! For rust to form, water must be penetrating the splines therefore there must be space at the bolt/washer and/or space at the rear pulley flange.
Filling the spline clearance with moly grease is a good idea, filling it with a water resistant grease might be a better idea.

Ideally, in use there should be no movement between the splined shaft and the pulley so molybdenum to prevent wear shouldn't be necessary.

The fix is to catch it before it starts and be sure the washer is good, there's no bruising on the pulley faces, plenty of water resistant grease to fill the splines and washer face to keep out the water, locktite on the thread and the bolt tightened properly so there is no movement of the pulley. With no water ingress and no movement, should be good to go! :thumbup:

 

[Freddy]

I find this issue interesting …. to the best of my knowledge … this was never a problem with the RT …. Why is it an issue with the F-3 ???? ….. Could this be similar to the DESS Fiasco ….. Not a problem until some engineer decided it needed Fixing …. NOW there is a problem … Is this a Canadian thing ????? ………...….good luck …. Mike hyea:

This problem started in 2008 on the GS/RS models. The BRP engineers issued a TSB stating that the cause of the failure was 'insufficient clamping force' on the pulley - meaning that the bolt wasn't done up properly tight at the factory, so they increased the torque spec and told dealers to mark a X on the head of the bolt when it had been retorqued. That just about solved the problem except for folks whose trikes never got the retorque to the higher spec because they never got back to a dealer, or the dealer was ignorant. :bdh:

And don't pick on my Canadian friends or.....or..........or I'll say something nice about Donny Trump. :yikes:

There are several reports of this failure on the RT1330 that I've read hereabouts. :cheers:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This problem started in 2008 on the GS/RS models. The BRP engineers issued a TSB stating that the cause of the failure was 'insufficient clamping force' on the pulley - meaning that the bolt wasn't done up properly tight at the factory, so they increased the torque spec and told dealers to mark a X on the head of the bolt when it had been retorqued. That just about solved the problem except for folks whose trikes never got the retorque to the higher spec because they never got back to a dealer, or the dealer was ignorant. :bdh:

And don't pick on my Canadian friends or.....or..........or I'll say something nice about Donny Trump. :yikes:

There are several reports of this failure on the RT1330 that I've read hereabouts. :cheers:

Thanks for the info …… Mike hyea:…………….PS - the Canadians are not my enemy …..

 

[larryd]

You Know I've ridden two wheel motorcycles for 50+ years...ON almost all my off road bikes I changed the front chain drive sprockets to a smaller size for lower gearing for off road riding...From what I can remember most of these sprockets fit loosely on the transmission output shaft and were held on WITH a large E clip...I rode in every tube of mud hole that existed...I had chain and sprockets wear out from mud, dirt, sand, rocks and who knows what else....BUT I DO NOT REMEMBER OF EVER HAVING A SPROCKET TO SPLINE FAILURE...

 

[dondje]

So I have been thinking about using this since the solution changed from locking things down. Just been waiting to do my rear tire change at the same time.

Have had it around all my life as my dad was a navy and merchant marine, ship board maintenance electrician.

Regards,

Don

BTW: Don't get it on your hands or clothing. It doesn't wash out.

"Mariner's Choice NMCBT-8, Marine Grade Never Seez, provides extreme pressure lubrication and protects against seizure, galling, and corrosion both above and below the water line. Use on winches, cables, bilge pumps, anchor lines, porthole studs, rigging, hoist cables, suspension bridges, wind turbines, offshore rigging, or other applications exposed to harsh salt water and freshwater conditions. Requires about 41% less torque while providing the same clamping force on threads. Perfect for high moisture environments!"

 

[SpyderF3-s]

My Spyder F3-S, 61,000 miles, has had the front sprocket fail 3 times. Seems like it lasts about 20,000 miles. I also have had several dirt bikes and never had to replace a sprocket.

 

[PMK]

PMK are you saying that your splines were lubricated from the factory?

Yes, our RTS had lubricant applied at manufacture.

 

[PMK]

I'm reading this thread and looking at the links, I'm mystified by the responses, the red dust is rust, the splines aren't wearing out, they're rusting out! For rust to form, water must be penetrating the splines therefore there must be space at the bolt/washer and/or space at the rear pulley flange.
Filling the spline clearance with moly grease is a good idea, filling it with a water resistant grease might be a better idea.

Ideally, in use there should be no movement between the splined shaft and the pulley so molybdenum to prevent wear shouldn't be necessary.

The fix is to catch it before it starts and be sure the washer is good, there's no bruising on the pulley faces, plenty of water resistant grease to fill the splines and washer face to keep out the water, locktite on the thread and the bolt tightened properly so there is no movement of the pulley. With no water ingress and no movement, should be good to go! :thumbup:

This is entirely incorrect. The process is fretting. A form of corrosion not associated with moisture, but rather microscopic high pressure movement. The movement generates extremely small oxide particles the further promote wear.

 

[PMK]

You Know I've ridden two wheel motorcycles for 50+ years...ON almost all my off road bikes I changed the front chain drive sprockets to a smaller size for lower gearing for off road riding...From what I can remember most of these sprockets fit loosely on the transmission output shaft and were held on WITH a large E clip...I rode in every tube of mud hole that existed...I had chain and sprockets wear out from mud, dirt, sand, rocks and who knows what else....BUT I DO NOT REMEMBER OF EVER HAVING A SPROCKET TO SPLINE FAILURE...

I wish the same could be said regarding the countershaft splines on my 1981 KTM 495mc.

 

[PMK]

So I have been thinking about using this since the solution changed from locking things down. Just been waiting to do my rear tire change at the same time.

Have had it around all my life as my dad was a navy and merchant marine, ship board maintenance electrician.

Regards,

Don

BTW: Don't get it on your hands or clothing. It doesn't wash out.

"Mariner's Choice NMCBT-8, Marine Grade Never Seez, provides extreme pressure lubrication and protects against seizure, galling, and corrosion both above and below the water line. Use on winches, cables, bilge pumps, anchor lines, porthole studs, rigging, hoist cables, suspension bridges, wind turbines, offshore rigging, or other applications exposed to harsh salt water and freshwater conditions. Requires about 41% less torque while providing the same clamping force on threads. Perfect for high moisture environments!"

View attachment 172518

No doubt better than assembling dry, however, before considering an anti seize product, realize that often then tend to dry out when in service. Maybe have a look at the Honda and BMW driveshaft spline lubes or similar products. I do like anti seize in many applications, but not all applications.

 

[Spyderlass]

This is entirely incorrect. The process is fretting. A form of corrosion not associated with moisture, but rather microscopic high pressure movement. The movement generates extremely small oxide particles the further promote wear.

Yes, well I know what fretting is but many of the pictures of the issue have the rust on the outside of the sprocket. So if the bolt is tight and it's sealed and fretting, how does the fretted material get out of the spline to the outside of the sprocket?

IMHO there's water involved. That Mariner's Choice never seize looks about the ticket to me! :thumbup: