Electric vehicles and the Grid

[Little Blue]

Ev ? ? ?

:chat:.... I am Hoping for a Better Solution to the ICE vs EV vehicles. .....opcorn:

 

[UtahPete]

:chat:.... I am Hoping for a Better Solution to the ICE vs EV vehicles. .....opcorn:

I agree. Hydrogen fuel cells look promising.

 

[wyliec]

It doesn't talk about the connections at all that I can see. There's more to universality than the connections.

You are correct. The other article I read mentioned a second cable in the test areas.

 

[hut1]

I don't understand why there would be private agendas at all. This is a very public issue.

I was talking more about various industry groups and lobbyists than individuals. Full disclosure: I drive a Tesla (and ICE vehicles), and believe in the future of EV's. However, I recognize the "current" limitations, and support the continued development of the necessary infrastructure to make them more viable. I also support the exploration and development of other sources of energy to supplement electric and fossil fuel vehicles. I also advocate for an expanded passenger rail system. hyea:

 

[Cobwebs]

That's nice. Now, what are we going to do about it?

Educate the masses that the climate is being used as a fear, reaction, solution scam to grab power by a bunch of misfits. Anyone swallowing the bait is unwittingly hastening their own freedom losses. Need proof, study Klaus Schwabs plans for humanity, it doesn't involve driving an electric car.How dare he!

 

[Rednaxs60]

Educate the masses that the climate is being used as a fear, reaction, solution scam to grab power by a bunch of misfits. Anyone swallowing the bait is unwittingly hastening their own freedom losses. Need proof, study Klaus Schwabs plans for humanity, it doesn't involve driving an electric car.How dare he!
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The masses do not want to be educated beause in their minds, the information has already been disseminated and is all that is needed to know. Education after this comes from being inconvenienced. Brown outs, not being able to use electrcity at certain times of the day, air conditioning bans and such is the only way to change this mindset.

Took this clip from an email I read about the UK: "In particular, the latest UK chargers will be pre-set to not function during 9-hours of peak loads, from 8 am to 11 am (3-hours), and 4 pm to 10 pm (6-hours). Unbelievably, the UK technology decides when and if an EV can be charged, and even allows EV batteries to be drained into the UK grid if required. Imagine charging your car all night only to discover in the morning that your battery is flat since the state took the power back. Better keep your gas-powered car as a reliable and immediately available backup! While EV charging will be an attractive source of revenue generation for the government, American citizens will be up in arms."

This is not far fetched. Ontario has smart power meters controlled by Hydro 1. These power meters are programmed for peak loads during the day and non-peak loads from 1900 to approximately 0600 hours Monday to Friday. Weekends and holidays are at the non-peak load rates. The above UK issue is already here, just not every province/state is using these yet. I surmise that Hydro 1 is monitoring this situatio carefully.

I realize there are differences between the US and Canada power generation and how costs are recouped; however, Canada is slowly migrating to the US model, Ontario is a good example of this when the provincial government privatized Ontario Hydro and only kept a 49% share in the new company thinking it would be able to maintain control. The hue and cry regarding this privatization has now died down to the suck it up as there is nothing you can do to reverse the issue scenario. The government does not care.

In the US, the power generating industry has a financial model that is designed to make money for the share holders. When this financial model is being impacted, there will be a significant lobby effort to the powers to be to have change, and the change will be to benefit the power utilities, not the genral public.

This happened in the US private renewable energy sector a few years back. The private renewable energy sector started to broach 1% power generation of the power being generated in the US. The utilities were starting to feel the impact of this greener technology. Utility companies lobbied the powers to be and had legislation passed that limited private renewable energy projects. Utility companies are not part of this legislation when it is enacted and are able to install renewable energy projects as it sees fit.

Tesla charging stations are popping up across Canada as well. You do need an adaptor if you do not have a Tesla, understand this to be true in the US as well. There will never be a standardized charging plug. It will be the same as seatbelts that were to be standardized many years ago, it's close but no cigar. The USB - micro USB connectors, iPhone connectors, and such. Unless it is a government controlled issue, standardization is a myth.

Just a few thoughts from north of the border.

 

[UtahPete]

Educate the masses that the climate is being used as a fear, reaction, solution scam to grab power by a bunch of misfits. Anyone swallowing the bait is unwittingly hastening their own freedom losses. Need proof, study Klaus Schwabs plans for humanity, it doesn't involve driving an electric car.How dare he!
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Freedom isn't going to mean what it used to when we're all dying off from heat, hunger, drought, and pollution.

 

[Lew L]

'Know your place, knave, or I'll have ye drawn and quartered"

Then be prepared for the fight of your life.:joke::joke::joke:

 

[Cobwebs]

Freedom isn't going to mean what it used to when we're all dying off from heat, hunger, drought and pollution.

Or plandemics, geo engineering, chemtrails, and great resets.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Freedom isn't going to mean what it used to when we're all dying off from heat, hunger, drought, and pollution.

Well ... Freedom already doesn't mean what it used to , and it has nothing to do with heat, hunger, drought and or pollution ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

Well ... Freedom already doesn't mean what it used to , and it has nothing to do with heat, hunger, drought and or pollution ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

I agree. But I was trying to stay on topic (i.e. the reason governments are trying to promote EVs over ICEs)

 

[Mazo EMS2]

What happens to the batteries from the EV's that are in crashes and totalled? Are they recycled? I've read and heard that just building the batteries does more harm to our environment than refining fuels. This whole EV thing drives me batty.

 

[UtahPete]

What happens to the batteries from the EV's that are in crashes and totalled? Are they recycled? I've read and heard that just building the batteries does more harm to our environment than refining fuels. This whole EV thing drives me batty.

Well, at least we are finally starting to develop viable alternatives to ICE for motor transport. We didn't get to space, or get it right with a national railway system, in our first attempts.

 

[Woodenfish]

Well, at least we are finally starting to develop viable alternatives to ICE for motor transport. We didn't get to space, or get it right with a national railway system, in our first attempts.

What’s wrong with today’s modern ICE? They run very efficiently, have good power, low polluting, reliable, economical, recyclable, can be massed produced easily, the energy supply is widely available, easily transported, quickly refilled, easily repaired, built in the country, can operate in multiple vehicles and implements that have built our country, empowered our freedoms and liberties while building our nation into a superpower, high technologically advanced country that is the envy of the world for over 100 years. I believe there should be freedom of choice and our government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers at the whim of foreign and domestic political elitists at the expense of the working people. That is no Constitutional authority granted to these foreign governments, think tanks, wealthy political classes to control our population and economy. What happened to coexist?

 

[UtahPete]

What’s wrong with today’s modern ICE? They run very efficiently, have good power, low polluting, reliable, economical, recyclable, can be massed produced easily, the energy supply is widely available, easily transported, quickly refilled, easily repaired, built in the country, can operate in multiple vehicles and implements that have built our country, empowered our freedoms and liberties while building our nation into a superpower, high technologically advanced country that is the envy of the world for over 100 years. I believe there should be freedom of choice and our government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers at the whim of foreign and domestic political elitists at the expense of the working people. That is no Constitutional authority granted to these foreign governments, think tanks, wealthy political classes to control our population and economy. What happened to coexist?

I'm sure that 100 years ago, people wondered the same thing about phasing out horses in favor of cars. Maybe some people are better at looking into the future than others. I don't think there's a dangerous conspiracy at work here.

I think America has such influence and admiration precisely because we have been technology innovators and leaders.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well, at least we are finally starting to develop viable alternatives to ICE for motor transport. We didn't get to space, or get it right with a national railway system, in our first attempts.

Dear Pete ( correct me if I'm mis-taken on this ) .... I get the impression you feel EV's are necessary ( now & in the future ). I have nothing against EV's, however I do believe in REALITY...... And in reality one has to take into account that even today ( or the in the next FIVE or TEN years ) this country doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of electricity to accomplish what the Govt. is Demanding we all do.... This is FACT not fiction, just go back to last year when Texas .... FROZE .... Texas went Big time into having a lot of things use ONLY Electricity like Homes & factories etc.. and that Idea ... FAILED ..... someday All Electric will be possible but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. .... Here's a question the climate activists ( and or Scientists ) won't answer .... How clean would the air be if the U.S. was totally " pollution free ". I've heard numbers like 1 to 2 % , for the entire planet. The three biggest nations that create pollution are China, India, & Russia and they arn't doing much if anything to fix this situation. I'm all for saving the planet - but it can't be done by one Nation and it's population ALONE. Think of it this way, if you decide to stop eating, so there will be more food for the rest of the people who are starving - how many people will be saved when you die of starvation .... ???? .... PS nothing I've said is an attack on you or anyone else, this is my opinion about energy ..... nothing more , nothing less ......Mike :thumbup:

 

[UtahPete]

Dear Pete ( correct me if I'm mis-taken on this ) .... I get the impression you feel EV's are necessary ( now & in the future ). I have nothing against EV's, however I do believe in REALITY...... And in reality one has to take into account that even today ( or the in the next FIVE or TEN years ) this country doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of electricity to accomplish what the Govt. is Demanding we all do.... This is FACT not fiction, just go back to last year when Texas .... FROZE .... Texas went Big time into having a lot of things use ONLY Electricity like Homes & factories etc.. and that Idea ... FAILED ..... someday All Electric will be possible but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. .... Here's a question the climate activists ( and or Scientists ) won't answer .... How clean would the air be if the U.S. was totally " pollution free ". I've heard numbers like 1 to 2 % , for the entire planet. The three biggest nations that create pollution are China, India, & Russia and they arn't doing much if anything to fix this situation. I'm all for saving the planet - but it can't be done by one Nation and it's population ALONE. Think of it this way, if you decide to stop eating, so there will be more food for the rest of the people who are starving - how many people will be saved when you die of starvation .... ???? .... PS nothing I've said is an attack on you or anyone else, this is my opinion about energy ..... nothing more , nothing less ......Mike :thumbup:

Hi, Mike. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

You mention the failures in Texas with its power grid being overwhelmed by a massive state-wide freeze. It was awhile back, so I don't remember the details, but my impression is that was unique to Texas, with its fragmented, unregulated power supply system. Unlike other states, which typically have one or two highly regulated state-wide power companies, Texas allows entrepreneurial power companies to proliferate and compete against each other for customers' business. That worked to consumers' advantage for a long time, producing some of the lowest costs for electricity in the country.

But, when that storm hit, the system broke down and couldn't handle the massive supply/demand imbalance, leaving many of these smaller power companies unable to buy enough power at a low enough price to meet their customers' needs or expectations of cheap electricity. So, I think what happened then in Texas is more of a lesson in the dangers of lack of regulation than an indication of a weakness in the national power grid.

 

[UtahPete]

Dear Pete ( correct me if I'm mis-taken on this ) .... I get the impression you feel EV's are necessary ( now & in the future ). I have nothing against EV's, however I do believe in REALITY...... And in reality one has to take into account that even today ( or the in the next FIVE or TEN years ) this country doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of electricity to accomplish what the Govt. is Demanding we all do.... This is FACT not fiction, just go back to last year when Texas .... FROZE .... Texas went Big time into having a lot of things use ONLY Electricity like Homes & factories etc.. and that Idea ... FAILED ..... someday All Electric will be possible but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. .... Here's a question the climate activists ( and or Scientists ) won't answer .... How clean would the air be if the U.S. was totally " pollution free ". I've heard numbers like 1 to 2 % , for the entire planet. The three biggest nations that create pollution are China, India, & Russia and they arn't doing much if anything to fix this situation. I'm all for saving the planet - but it can't be done by one Nation and it's population ALONE. Think of it this way, if you decide to stop eating, so there will be more food for the rest of the people who are starving - how many people will be saved when you die of starvation .... ???? .... PS nothing I've said is an attack on you or anyone else, this is my opinion about energy ..... nothing more , nothing less ......Mike :thumbup:

As to the question of the national power grid being unable to meet the increased demand for electricity if we go all electric with vehicles, it's a little more complicated, but I'll try to keep it simple. First of all, the existing power grid was built to connect sources with customers. Those sources have been, primarily, hydro and fossil fuel-powered plants. That worked well for a long time, but is being stressed by several factors, mostly climate-related.

Hydro still works well east of the Rockies, where water supplies haven't changed much. But in the southwest, climate change has created a mega-drought situation that is reaching catastrophic scale. The drought affects all aspects of life for a large and growing population, but also affects the ability to produce hydro-electric power when reservoir levels and water flows drop precipitously. Solar farms and wind farms are growing to help meet the demand, but the best locations for those have gone untapped because they are hundreds of miles from the existing grid network. So, massive infrastructure needs abound and that's one of the things the stalled infrastructure bill is designed to address.

 

[UtahPete]

Dear Pete ( correct me if I'm mis-taken on this ) .... I get the impression you feel EV's are necessary ( now & in the future ). I have nothing against EV's, however I do believe in REALITY...... And in reality one has to take into account that even today ( or the in the next FIVE or TEN years ) this country doesn't produce anywhere near the amount of electricity to accomplish what the Govt. is Demanding we all do.... This is FACT not fiction, just go back to last year when Texas .... FROZE .... Texas went Big time into having a lot of things use ONLY Electricity like Homes & factories etc.. and that Idea ... FAILED ..... someday All Electric will be possible but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. .... Here's a question the climate activists ( and or Scientists ) won't answer .... How clean would the air be if the U.S. was totally " pollution free ". I've heard numbers like 1 to 2 % , for the entire planet. The three biggest nations that create pollution are China, India, & Russia and they arn't doing much if anything to fix this situation. I'm all for saving the planet - but it can't be done by one Nation and it's population ALONE. Think of it this way, if you decide to stop eating, so there will be more food for the rest of the people who are starving - how many people will be saved when you die of starvation .... ???? .... PS nothing I've said is an attack on you or anyone else, this is my opinion about energy ..... nothing more , nothing less ......Mike :thumbup:

Lastly, to address the EV questions. EVs are different from ICE-powered vehicles in one very important way for the typical consumer. That is, the ability to be truly independent of the vagaries of the fuel companies. Most trips taken by consumers are well within the range of existing pure battery powered EVs, and can be easily recharged overnight at home with existing residential electrical systems. Since this is at night when power demand and costs are lower, the existing power grid would not be overwhelmed by people charging their EVs.

Furthermore, with the increasing adoption of solar power by residential customers, demand on power companies is actually decreasing in some parts of the country. It is now possible, with large residential batteries like Tesla's, and enough solar panels, for homes to be able to go completely off-grid, which has broad implications for places like the Southwest where sunshine is abundant and hydropower is declining.

The Achilles heel in all of this shift to EVs is with long-haul trucks, motorhomes and others that go beyond the range of current battery technology. Those applications require fast-charging stations located along their route, which of course is the biggest infrastructure challenge. Again, the trillion dollar infrastructure bill stalled in the Senate is designed to fund the buildout of this necessary nationwide network of public fast-charging stations. One idea worth considering is converting many existing gas stations over to electric, but it will take public funding for that to happen.

For freedom-loving Americans this would be manna from heaven. Independence from both fuel companies and power companies. It's already a reality for some people.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Lastly, to address the EV questions. EVs are different from ICE-powered vehicles in one very important way for the typical consumer. That is, the ability to be truly independent of the vagaries of the fuel companies. Most trips taken by consumers are well within the range of existing pure battery powered EVs, and can be easily recharged overnight at home with existing residential electrical systems. Since this is at night when power demand and costs are lower, the existing power grid would not be overwhelmed by people charging their EVs.

Furthermore, with the increasing adoption of solar power by residential customers, demand on power companies is actually decreasing in some parts of the country. It is now possible, with large batteries like Tesla's, and enough solar panels, for homes to be able to go completely off-grid, which has broad implications for places like the Southwest where sunshine is abundant and hydropower is declining.

The Achilles heel in all of this shift to EVs is with long-haul trucks, motorhomes and others that go beyond the range of current battery technology. Those applications require fast-charging stations located along their route, which of course is the biggest infrastructure challenge. Again, the trillion dollar infrastructure bill stalled in the Senate is designed to fund the buildout of this necessary nationwide network of public fast-charging stations. One idea worth considering is converting many existing gas stations over to electric, but it will take public funding for that to happen.

Pete I THANK YOU for your last three posts ( and did ) however I don't agree with any of your conclusions. Sincerely ..... Mike :thumbup: