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Ducati Competitor???

I would not mind a leaning 3 wheelers... I have a RT-S and people saying that it is as fast as any bikes in the twisties are smoking the carpet... on a bad road full of potholes and gravel yes, but on a nice twisty road no way... do not even mention big sweepers... I still have my old Vmax somewhere in the garage and I am more and more contenplating this transformation: http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/20/tilting-v-max-trike-by-tilting-motor-works/
Philippe
 
I have to say, I think it is great to be able to have a handling, speed discussion on a particular machine without it getting to heated!
Everyone has opinions and sometimes people take these a little too far.
Our group ride quite an aray of different make and style bikes. I am not a Harley guy and as much as I like Kaw, just recently rode my friends Mean Streak and although it handled quite well and had good bottom end it was not my cup of tea at all. I can appreciate how these bikes look and what the owners put into them. We harrass each other about each others rides as we would about what kinds of cars each has but it is all in fun.
So congrats to all and this website for being able to have a good discussion on a topic that could be so controversial.

I also wanted to say. this new bike pretty much has to be a novelty. The lean is just to be able to have the feeling of a 2 wheeler. I would think, but not having ridden one can't say for sure, that you would have to initiate the turn with pushing the handle bars into a countersteer. I don't see how it could work any other way. Spyders are engineered totally different. Like asked earler, the 2 wheelers aren't actually riding on their sidewalls. The tires profiles are round. You pretty much have the same amount of tire touching the road through the whole lean. Mine are even made out of multiple compounds so that the part of the tire (the center) where the bike is riden the most is a bit harder compound. This allows for longer tire life and yet a very sticky part of the tire for laying her down in the curves.
I think BRP has the right idea with the spyders and not leaning and having the design just the way it is. I also would like to see a performance factory bike. The rotax 990 wouldn't have to be bigger, it is very detuned the way BRP has it with the spyder.
 
:ohyea:
Let's sing it together; I'm just mad about Saffron, Saffron's mad about me,
[your turn] ...........:roflblack::roflblack:

Mellow Yellow??? :shocked:
I would bet the the majority of us here prefer ZZ Top over Donovan for the background music... :roflblack:
 
Ron makes great points as to why that new concept trike isn't too comfortable in tight twisties. Whether it leans or not, a three-wheeled cycle simply has inherent limitations that can never be overcome to gain any kind of real performance, Spyder included. That is exactly why BRP put the saftey systems on the Spyder that they did; they realized early on that riders would go over the limits of the machine, especially in the cornering regime, so they locked it down; too far for my taste.

Don't get me wrong; you can still achieve reasonable results on a Spyder with proper technique and it is a hoot to do but it is very physical and certainly no match for the GSX (or any comparible bike). The GSX carves through corners with speed and grace. Low-end grunt is off the charts! It's just the nature of the platforms. That doesn't make either one good or bad, better or worse, it just is what it is. Give me the GSX any day!

Aside from the handling aspect of the new prototype machine, I don't care for the styling at all. But who knows what stage of completion this new machine is in. It will be interesting to see what the finished product will turn out to be. Now, that GG Taurus is a different story. THAT is the kid to beat when talking 3 wheelers! The price tag is probably going to be the show stopper there, but if it was anything close to the Spyder, the Spyder would be gone...
 
No one really needs a leaning trike, that's what two wheels are for.
Now if Some one comes out with a FRONT wheel drive, Now that will out handle a two wheeler.
The only thing is front wheel drive on a trike might take it out of the Motorcycle classification [dot] and have to meet 4 wheel safety standers??
 
No one really needs a leaning trike, that's what two wheels are for.
Now if Some one comes out with a FRONT wheel drive, Now that will out handle a two wheeler.
The only thing is front wheel drive on a trike might take it out of the Motorcycle classification [dot] and have to meet 4 wheel safety standers??

Yamaha has a prototype 4 wheel leaning bike. That may be available soon. So what classification would that be. The wheels are very close together. Not much wider then a conventional two wheeler.:dontknow:
 
The Tesseract has been around for quite a while now... I think that it was more of an engineering exercise than a "Test the marketing waters" deal...
BRP has the Commander 1000 UTV. They've already got the hardware developed in that chassis to put front drive half-shafts into the equation... Would all wheel drive suit anybody?
 
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The Tesseract has been around for quite a while now... I think that it was more of an engineering exercise than a "Test the marketing waters" deal...
BRP has the Commander 1000 UTV. They've already got the hardware developed in that chassis to put front drive half-shafts into the equation... Would all wheel drive suit anybody?

So any idea why they are testing four wheels? The wheels are so close. Cycle shop said they think the bike is close to being introduced. He said the Spyder has some concerned letting it get to entrenched.
 
So any idea why they are testing four wheels? The wheels are so close. Cycle shop said they think the bike is close to being introduced. He said the Spyder has some concerned letting it get to entrenched.
Four wheels won't be able to be licensed or sold in most states unless it meets automotive safety regulations and EPA emissions/mileage requirements.
 
Four wheels won't be able to be licensed or sold in most states unless it meets automotive safety regulations and EPA emissions/mileage requirements.

:agree: I am pretty sure that is what killed the GG Quad for sale here in the U.S. Hence, the Taurus...
 
I'm curious if the lean is initiated by counter-steer (like a two-wheeler) or by direct steer (like a Spyder)...

Countersteer only works where centrifugal force is the determining factor for balance. The Spyder (or any 3 wheeled vehicle) counters centrifugal force with a spread stance, not lean. Countersteering a Spyder, or a leaning 'Spyder' for that matter, will have the same effect as countersteering your car! :yikes: Please! Don't try this at home folks!

In other words, the outside wheel resists centrifugal force on a Spyder where lean achieves this on a 2 wheeled machine.

In theory leaning on a 3 wheeled vehicle will assist in resisting centrifugal force. But it still isn't the same thing as on 2 wheels.

On 2 wheels you balance falling to the inside of the turn with falling to the outside of the turn, it's 100% offsetting lean forces.

With the Spyder you can reduce centrifugal force by lowering your center of gravity (which gives centrifugal force less leverage to work with). In theory this can be done by leaning your 3 wheeled vehicle. But there are several reasons why this really doesn't work well.

First, you can achieve much the same thing by sliding your body to the inside of the turn and getting your butt below the seat.

Plus, to achieve lean on 3 wheels you have to increase ground clearance (raise the machine higher off the road) to give your hard parts room to lean without hitting the ground.

With the Spyder, since it does not lean, the engineers were able to get it pretty low to the ground. So you already have a built in advantage over a leaning 3 wheeler.

To me, a leaning 3 wheeler is a great concept on the surface but it is never really going to deliver what people are looking for.

If you want to fly, get an airplane, if you want to lean, get 2 wheels, if you just want to have an incredible experience, and more fun than a human being should be allowed to have... ride your Spyder and love every turn!
 
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Just want to say that I really admire those of you who understand the physics of things so well. BajaRon, your explanations are so good I even understand them!!! All of what you say just makes me thankful for the Spyder even more than ever. BRP really went out on a limb to create the Spyder. There may be other manufacturers get in on the tadpole or Y design eventually. But BRP was first. They had vision that others lacked.
 
Just want to say that I really admire those of you who understand the physics of things so well. BajaRon, your explanations are so good I even understand them!!! All of what you say just makes me thankful for the Spyder even more than ever. BRP really went out on a limb to create the Spyder. There may be other manufacturers get in on the tadpole or Y design eventually. But BRP was first. They had vision that others lacked.

Well, young Skywalker, your understanding is now complete! May the centrifugal FORCE be with you! :ohyea:
 
Countersteer only works where centrifugal force is the determining factor for balance. The Spyder (or any 3 wheeled vehicle) counters centrifugal force with a spread stance, not lean. Countersteering a Spyder, or a leaning 'Spyder' for that matter, will have the same effect as countersteering your car! :yikes: Please! Don't try this at home folks!

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that the MP3 is countersteered like a conventional two-wheel motorcycle. So what accounts for the difference? Is there a magic "spread" distance at work?
 
Having NO idea of if this is true... :opps:, I'd guess that the Piaggio; since it leans, responds to counter-steering. BUT... it'll respond slower due to the spread stance...?!? (Or am I just whistling in the wind???)
 
I think there is some misunderstanding about leaning technology.

Their are several videos of this "Ducati Trimoto" reverse trike. Look at these videos and I think it gives a clearer understanding of the technology and what is happening. One video with the riders point of view, is interesting.

When you see all the videos I wonder why BRP has all the electronic controls, The Spyder is really much nicer looking, but I do't think it can compete with this "Ducati Trimoto" reverse trike. They claim they will be using the 1100cc Ducati motor and will lean 50 deg. They also calim they corner as well if not better then some two wheelers.

Interesting
 
The Beemer I'd buy, the Ducati, never. Would never spend a dime on an Italian machine of any kind, unless I could afford the mechanic that it would require.
 
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