Checking oil on F3... How tricky it can be?

[MakoShark2]

So got my second oil change (yearly one) at the dealer not long ago.

And I think the maintenance guy kind of likes to overfill it... When I got home just check the oil level and it was above the upper marker.

So I gradually pumped out about 3.4oz/100ml more or less each time (ride it a bit and rechecked)... Needed 4 rounds of this, so removed about 12oz/350ml of oil to get it above the upper marker.



All measurements done at home after a long ride, let it idle until the fans came on and checked within 2 minutes of turning the engine off, as I think it is the recommended procedure.

And here's the awkward part... During my last ride I just stopped on the side of the road (after riding all day), pulled the stick and for my surprise level was just on the tip of the stick... I did put the stick in a couple of times, rechecked and the same...

Can't tell if the ground was leveled, but that really confused me. Stopped again further on the road, let the engine idle until the fans came on, shut the engine off, waited about a minute and rechecked the level which was up to the upper mark...

So what the heck did happen here? Anyone could explain me this?
Does the fan thing is mandatory? Even when I'm sure the engine was hot?
Must the floor be perfectly and absolutely straight?

Not sure know if I should put that 12oz/350ml back or not.

Can't tell if the garage's floor (where I did all the measurements at home) is absolutely 100% straight (got to check that) but if any the inclination is very slight as I leave the Spyder there with no parking brake and it won't move.

By the way I know for a fact that the maintenance guy usually tops it with a bit more than the recommended, on the first oil change he told me himself he normally adds an extra 9.2oz/275ml (go figure...)

Thanks and Happy New Year from Western Europe!

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Oil level checking …. because the engine is a dry sump oil system, you must check the level EXACTLY as described in the owner's manual …. Dealer Techs often DON'T which causes issues …. What I ( highly ) recommend is: ONLY check the oil after a ride of more then 10 minutes …… WHY ! … because I guarantee the oil temperature will be perfect …. Once you get used to doing it this way , you will save a ton of time …. AND always get it right ….. From at a few hundred posts - the 1330 engine - just doesn't burn oil - Period, if you find you are - something is wrong and find out what ASAP ….. ood luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[BajaRon]

I'd say your low lever check was due to not being level. That can make a big difference. I like gas stations as the area next to the pump is always level. At least in my experience they have been. I wouldn't trust or worry about the bad check unless you are sure it was level ground.

Just keep checking the level using the correct method and only when sure you are on level ground. If it happens again, then I would look further into it.

 

[JayBros]

Remember, there are three scavenge pumps in the engine that return oil to the integral dry sump tank. That's why you have to let the engine run for 10 min to allow them to do their work so you can get an accurate dipstick read. That's also why you have to check the dipstick w/in 2 min of turning off the engine because after 2 min gravity starts allowing hot oil to flow out of the oil tank and there is no accurate way to determine how much flows out into the crankcase in any given amount of time.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Remember, there are three scavenge pumps in the engine that return oil to the integral dry sump tank. That's why you have to let the engine run for 10 min to allow them to do their work so you can get an accurate dipstick read. That's also why you have to check the dipstick w/in 2 min of turning off the engine because after 2 min gravity starts allowing hot oil to flow out of the oil tank and there is no accurate way to determine how much flows out into the crankcase in any given amount of time.

10 minute warm-up, well that's Not much time …..or is it … I posted above what I do, however if you want to wait .. 10 minutes every time you ride you Spyder …. it could look like this : 1000 starts = 166.66 HOURS or almost 7 Days ….. That 10 minutes sounds a bit different now ..... just a thought .... Mike hyea:

 

[Peteoz]

10 minute warm-up, well that's much time …..or is it … I posted above what I do, however if you want to wait .. 10 minutes every time you ride you Spyder …. it could look like this : 1000 starts = 166.66 HOURS or almost 7 Days ….. That 10 minutes sounds a bit different now ..... just a thought .... Mike hyea:

Yeah, but don’t forget you would only check the oil before you ride off very occasionally, Mike You would normally check it, if you feel the need, while you are on the road.......and I agree.....I have found my 1330 really doesn’t consume oil :thumbup:

Pete

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yeah, but don’t forget you would only check the oil before you ride off very occasionally, Mike You would normally check it, if you feel the need, while you are on the road.......and I agree.....I have found my 1330 really doesn’t consume oil :thumbup:

Pete

Nope ….. if you checked after your LAST ride , unless there is a hugh puddle ( of oil ) under the Spyder …. the oil level is correct - it can't be anything else …. Mike hyea:

 

[MakoShark2]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Checked the oil a couple of times on leveled ground after a long ride and letting it idle until the fans turned on... and it's just below the little upper ball (max mark), so I let it be as it is.

This confirms the bad judgement of the maintenance guy who likes to top up above the recommended volume...

 

[EdMat]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Checked the oil a couple of times on leveled ground after a long ride and letting it idle until the fans turned on... ...

Guys, help me learn something here.

Why do you feel the need after a long ride to let it idle till the fans turn on? From my take on the manual its ride for 9 miles OR idle for 10 minutes and then wait at least 20 seconds but no longer than 2 minutes to check the oil.

When I feel the need to check the oil I do it after a longer ride, never after just idling.

Some parts of the manual could be much clearer.

 

[LifeLongRider]

Well, for what it's worth, the manuals for different model years must have outlined slightly different procedures for checking the oil level. This is straight out of the 2019 F3 owners manual. See the picture and read the procedure: 1.) Take a ride of at least 15km (9 miles), 2.) Park on a level surface, 3.) Let the engine idle for a least 20 seconds, 4.) stop engine, etc. Absolutely nothing about letting it idle for ten minutes or until the cooling fans come on.

 

[JayBros]

The story, at least in successive years of operator's guides, is, to be generous toward BRP, miserable. I was struck when I actually took delivery of my '14 RT-S that the dipstick didn't look anything like the one in my operator's guide. The one in the guide was a picture of a V-twin dipstick which one could attribute to, at best,:cus: editing and proofreading of the guide for a brand new MY engine. Then too, the initial oil fill quantities in the guide were wrong. Lastly, in response to direct questions to BRPCare from me a gentleman named Steve from that activity explained about the scavenge pumps and the 10 min idle time before checking the oil level, none of which was included in the guide. As new MYs have been produced they have gotten more explicit but it still doesn't explain why BRP can't get their :cus: fully together in what is a simple procedure. the biggest and, IMO, the best features of the 1330 ACE engine oil-wise are #1 it doesn't use any between changes and #2 the 9,300 mile change interval.

 

[MakoShark2]

I think it's from here, which actually says "Oil level can be reliably verified when the radiator fans have cycled ON twice"

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...-engined-Spyders&highlight=level+verification

 

[Gwolf]

You spent more time correcting the dealer over-fill that you would have if you just changed the oil yourself and put the correct amount in. Why pay somebody to do the job wrong and then you have to go behind them and fix it?

 

[Snakeyes]

Here is what my manual says for my 2019 RTL. What the heck does "Let the engine idle for 10 minutes at least 20 seconds" even mean???

 

[AeroPilot]

Go with the Link that MakoShark posted on the BRPCares response for checking the oil on the 1330 engine.

Short version : Ride it 10 miles - (preferably check after coming back from a longer ride, you'll know its hot), pull in the garage and let it idle 10 minutes (while you get your gear off, make a potty stop, get a cold drink and a clean paper towel), when the fans cycle on and off, shut it off, pull the dipstick, wipe it off, re-insert and pull it out and lay it on the towel to get an accurate check.

If its between the Min - MaX Lines you are good for the next ride. None of our three 1330s that we put around 50,000 miles on used oil. And as Gwolf said, if you change your own oil and put a little more than 5 quarts back in (for the SE6 models), you know you are good to go!!

 

[MakoShark2]

You spent more time correcting the dealer over-fill that you would have if you just changed the oil yourself and put the correct amount in. Why pay somebody to do the job wrong and then you have to go behind them and fix it?

Pumping oil from the engine was very straight forward and quick (took less than 2min to extract about 100ml each time), I've done maintenance on bikes before and would have probably took more time.

Could have just went to him and argue with him to make it right, but i'm more than 1 hour away.

Also Spyder is still under warranty and here (Portugal) not having a proper record maintenance could cause me troubles if I'll need to claim anything.

But I get your point.

 

[AeroPilot]

I am guessing that very few shops allow their techs to take a 20 -30 minute ride to heat up the oil and then let it idle for 10 minutes before checking the oil level as per specifications.

And since the customer might check the dipstick in the parking lot before leaving and see a low level, they "might" just dump 6 quarts in and call it good. Even the fluid capacity in the back of my 2015 manual reports that the capacity is 5.6 to 5.9 quarts. However they did get it right on page 124 where they show 5 quarts for a regular oil and filter change, and 5.2 quarts if they replace the HCM auto filter at the specified 28000 mile interval.

I would just check it when I got home like MakoShark did, and if overfull, remove a little with my vacuum extractor and ride and check again if I was worried. The main thing is to check the oil hot and after the 10 minute "leveling out" period with the scavenger pumps. MHO.

 

[EdMat]

Just a quick thought on the matter of having to wait for a 10 minute idle period...............if the scavenger pumps are this pitiful i don't think we would be getting 5,000 miles out of an engine much less 100,000 +.