wyliec
New member
After some number of miles, wouldn't you say that the sprockets are also a wear item?
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BRP is not fair
- Thread starter Spyderjockey
- Start date
After some number of miles, wouldn't you say that the sprockets are also a wear item?
Firefly
Active member
Not when the splines went bad because BRP had the belt tension spec FAR too tight!
wyliec
New member
And, the front sprocket bolt too loose!
Spyderjockey
New member
I just got in from a ryde on the Spyder and this was going to be the first thing I did....to let people know that Carlo did contact me today and there is some confusion. He says he has talked to me once in July but I honestly do not remember talking to him. I know my wife talked to him and he was supposed to call me that day after the conversation with her, but I know he didn't call me that day but maybe some other time and when I didn't realize it was him. My wife said that she had said to him what he says I said to him the day she talked to him.
At any rate I gave him the benefit of the doubt and apologized fo my comments about him if I had indeed talked to him. Of course that was way back in July and I had sent several emails and phone message all during August to have some response back. Anyway Carlo was very gracious and said it was no big deal and that I need not apologize.
Anyway one of the first things he said was if I was trying to get BRP's attention.......I had been successful (with kind of a chuckle in his voice.) To try and condense the very long conversation I had with him is pretty difficult, but I will try to give the major points that were discussed:
1) I guess the first point he wanted to make was that all cases are different and that BRP does not and cannot tell dealers how to run their business and that they have to trust the dealers on their evaluation of problems. I said I realize that but my whole problem started because of the way the mechanic had submitted the claim as a wear item and that now I have little recourse. I took it to the dealer in good faith believing that I would get fair treatment from them as well as BRP and that all dealers work under the same standards. Evidently not all dealers and/or mechanics understand the way warranty claims are handled. My mechanic said he called BRP and he was told by them that he had to submit it as a wear item so that is what he did.
2) Carlo kind of chastised me for taking the belt and rear sprocket for a second opinion, because that brings in another dealer and the second dealer may want to keep a good relationship with me and tell me what I want to hear. He also said the more people I talk to the more opinions are going to be given which is not helpful. I told him the reason I took it for a second opinion was that the rep at BRP, whether it was Carlo or another rep told us to take it to another dealer to get their opinion. (my wife thinks it was Carlo the day she talked to him on the phone). He apologised to me saying he thought it was my idea for a second opinion. I said at any rate that this dealer looked at it and said there was no reason that the belt or rear sprocket should have been replaced and that the belt looked new. The only problem he saw was the front sprocket was worn badly on the inside of where the spline shaft enters the hub of the sprocket. Again I told Carlo that had I taken the Spyder to them that I would have paid my deductible and they would have had the work done under my extended warranty. That came from the owner of the dealership himself. I also told him I had talked to one other dealer about the problem although he did not see the parts but he had changed one of the components on a customers bike and did not replace all of them and he had looked in the shop maunal and there was no indication there that all components had to be changed just because one had to be.
3)Carlo asked me what I was expecting and I said that I wanted to be treated the same as all the other Spyder owners that we had talked about with the same problem and have the repairs covered under my warranty and be reimbursed for what I had paid out of pocket. He asked me how many miles I had on my Spyder at the present time and if I was able to ride it now and just how much I paid out of my pocket to get this work done. He was impressed when I told him I now had 34,500 miles on it. I told him I was able to ride it with no problems except I still have the rough running between 3000 and 4000 rpms and that I still have the raw gas fumes and that I paid $1015 for the work done. He then said with my permission he would take over my case and investigate further and if there had been a mistake made they would make it right.......but he stressed emphatically that he makes no promises and all cases are different and that he would apply the same standards to my case as to any one else's. I told him that sounded fair and would wait to see what transpires from this point.
Of course there was a whole lot more that we had said back and forth to each other, but I have tried to portray the major aspects of our conversation. I still would like to have more contact with him, but understand I am not he only person in the Spyder community that is having problems and that of course as he stated he is "only one person". I do feel better about the character of Carlo and hope from now on we can have more productive contact with each other and hopefully he will understand my frustration with past episodes of no contact at all for many many days and into weeks. Of course I also hope and expect that he will come up with a positive conclusion to all of this and restore completely my faith in BRP.
Again thank you for everyones patience with all of these long posts and for eveyone's input and support!
At any rate I gave him the benefit of the doubt and apologized fo my comments about him if I had indeed talked to him. Of course that was way back in July and I had sent several emails and phone message all during August to have some response back. Anyway Carlo was very gracious and said it was no big deal and that I need not apologize.
Anyway one of the first things he said was if I was trying to get BRP's attention.......I had been successful (with kind of a chuckle in his voice.) To try and condense the very long conversation I had with him is pretty difficult, but I will try to give the major points that were discussed:
1) I guess the first point he wanted to make was that all cases are different and that BRP does not and cannot tell dealers how to run their business and that they have to trust the dealers on their evaluation of problems. I said I realize that but my whole problem started because of the way the mechanic had submitted the claim as a wear item and that now I have little recourse. I took it to the dealer in good faith believing that I would get fair treatment from them as well as BRP and that all dealers work under the same standards. Evidently not all dealers and/or mechanics understand the way warranty claims are handled. My mechanic said he called BRP and he was told by them that he had to submit it as a wear item so that is what he did.
2) Carlo kind of chastised me for taking the belt and rear sprocket for a second opinion, because that brings in another dealer and the second dealer may want to keep a good relationship with me and tell me what I want to hear. He also said the more people I talk to the more opinions are going to be given which is not helpful. I told him the reason I took it for a second opinion was that the rep at BRP, whether it was Carlo or another rep told us to take it to another dealer to get their opinion. (my wife thinks it was Carlo the day she talked to him on the phone). He apologised to me saying he thought it was my idea for a second opinion. I said at any rate that this dealer looked at it and said there was no reason that the belt or rear sprocket should have been replaced and that the belt looked new. The only problem he saw was the front sprocket was worn badly on the inside of where the spline shaft enters the hub of the sprocket. Again I told Carlo that had I taken the Spyder to them that I would have paid my deductible and they would have had the work done under my extended warranty. That came from the owner of the dealership himself. I also told him I had talked to one other dealer about the problem although he did not see the parts but he had changed one of the components on a customers bike and did not replace all of them and he had looked in the shop maunal and there was no indication there that all components had to be changed just because one had to be.
3)Carlo asked me what I was expecting and I said that I wanted to be treated the same as all the other Spyder owners that we had talked about with the same problem and have the repairs covered under my warranty and be reimbursed for what I had paid out of pocket. He asked me how many miles I had on my Spyder at the present time and if I was able to ride it now and just how much I paid out of my pocket to get this work done. He was impressed when I told him I now had 34,500 miles on it. I told him I was able to ride it with no problems except I still have the rough running between 3000 and 4000 rpms and that I still have the raw gas fumes and that I paid $1015 for the work done. He then said with my permission he would take over my case and investigate further and if there had been a mistake made they would make it right.......but he stressed emphatically that he makes no promises and all cases are different and that he would apply the same standards to my case as to any one else's. I told him that sounded fair and would wait to see what transpires from this point.
Of course there was a whole lot more that we had said back and forth to each other, but I have tried to portray the major aspects of our conversation. I still would like to have more contact with him, but understand I am not he only person in the Spyder community that is having problems and that of course as he stated he is "only one person". I do feel better about the character of Carlo and hope from now on we can have more productive contact with each other and hopefully he will understand my frustration with past episodes of no contact at all for many many days and into weeks. Of course I also hope and expect that he will come up with a positive conclusion to all of this and restore completely my faith in BRP.
Again thank you for everyones patience with all of these long posts and for eveyone's input and support!
Raptor
New member
:agree: This is almost freaky how this streak of horor stories is unfolding. Blown sprockets due to bad specs, Spyders burning to the ground, the constant DPS issues... and they are pimping the 2011 line with very few real improvements! If I were BRP, I would stop dumping all these field issues on Carlo, get more reps in the field, get more techs trained, get a better handle on quality control on the line, and postpone this small displacement line for a while. Get your house in order BRP!!
Spyderjockey
New member
I am hoping they come to that same conclusion and that has been my belief all along, that the belt tension was too tight wearing the teeth out in the hub of the front sprocket and a lot of dealers agree with that belief.
dave01
New member
So, why would a company as large as BRP only have 1 rep that issues are taken to. This alone is not satisfactory in my opinion and just starts the delay in a customer getting response in a timely manner. Imagine if a company like Yamaha or Suzuki delt with issues with such a limited supply of manpower. Carlo is obviously overwhelmed with requests and we, as customers, are being placed on a waiting list for far too long. 100+ days to replace an engine, numerous DPS issues on some Spyders and the seemingly lack of qualified and properly trained techs in the field are not helping the issue. Ok, my morning vent is over.
BajaRon
Well-known member
No motorcycle company, no matter how small, would have just 1 person in charge of customer service. I am not sure how anyone gets this idea.
I don't know how many people BRP employees in this category but I've been to the facility where customer service works and there were a few dozen cubicles there.
It is my understanding that Carlo handles special cases that need special attention. He has more authroity to get difficult problems solved and it probably takes more time than the average customer issue.
And this is not the only thing he does. So, like the rest of us working people, he gets overloaded at times. But I do not think it is all the time.
Right now BRP is very busy with the new Spyder line and gearing up for the Snowmobile season. So it is probably a combination of things that has Carlo occupied.
bjt
Very Helpful Member
Spyderjockey
New member
[
Just another quick update. I returned to the dealer that performed the work on my Spyder, and took the belt and rear sprocket to him. We compared my belt on a new front sprocket to a new belt on a new sprocket and the dealer had to admit there was very little difference between the 2 belts on how it meshed with his new sprocket. He did say of course that their was a little more wear showing on my belt than on a new one but it was hardly detectable. Another thing was that we talked about how Carlo and Pierre had both told me the reason for me being denied under the warranty was the way the dealer had entered the claim into the system. My dealer told me there are only boxes to check for the appropriate work that was done and no place to add explanations except under certain cicumstances where maybe someone had caused a problem by the way the Spyder was being driven for example. He said of course that is not the case with me and this problem. The dealer is really mad about the way "BRP threw him under the bus". ("I said I know how you feel because I am under the same proverbial bus myself" and at a huge cost fianancially.) He said it was wromg to have us take the parts to another dealer instead of sending them back to BRP and is anxious to talk to Carlo about this. Of course Carlo had told me, more or less, that it was wrong also that I took them to another dealer until I told him it was their idea that I do it. He then apologized to me for thinking it was my idea.
I brought up other problems and confusion we have experienced with issues on other things over the last couple of years, but I tire of talking and hashing all of this over and over. Right now the ball is in Carlo's court and will have to see what he comes up with after he conducts his investigation and after he talks to the dealer....which I thought he was going to call right away....but maybe I just expected that!!
Unless everyone is tiring of all this, I will keep you posted.
Just another quick update. I returned to the dealer that performed the work on my Spyder, and took the belt and rear sprocket to him. We compared my belt on a new front sprocket to a new belt on a new sprocket and the dealer had to admit there was very little difference between the 2 belts on how it meshed with his new sprocket. He did say of course that their was a little more wear showing on my belt than on a new one but it was hardly detectable. Another thing was that we talked about how Carlo and Pierre had both told me the reason for me being denied under the warranty was the way the dealer had entered the claim into the system. My dealer told me there are only boxes to check for the appropriate work that was done and no place to add explanations except under certain cicumstances where maybe someone had caused a problem by the way the Spyder was being driven for example. He said of course that is not the case with me and this problem. The dealer is really mad about the way "BRP threw him under the bus". ("I said I know how you feel because I am under the same proverbial bus myself" and at a huge cost fianancially.) He said it was wromg to have us take the parts to another dealer instead of sending them back to BRP and is anxious to talk to Carlo about this. Of course Carlo had told me, more or less, that it was wrong also that I took them to another dealer until I told him it was their idea that I do it. He then apologized to me for thinking it was my idea.
I brought up other problems and confusion we have experienced with issues on other things over the last couple of years, but I tire of talking and hashing all of this over and over. Right now the ball is in Carlo's court and will have to see what he comes up with after he conducts his investigation and after he talks to the dealer....which I thought he was going to call right away....but maybe I just expected that!!
Unless everyone is tiring of all this, I will keep you posted.
Raptor
New member
Hey listen, we are all in this thing now! We want to know how this thing turns out. Well, I should not speak for anyone else but I sure as heck want to know! You can vent to me any time! :thumbup:
BajaRon
Well-known member
Did your dealer show you the form he submitted to BRP? There has to be a copy there. Instead of telling you, you'd think he would just show you the paperwork.
Someone is not coming clean here.
Spyderjockey
New member
No He had just arrived back from a funeral and it was getting close to their closing time and to be honest I didn't even think of that. Hopefully Carlo will get back with him and I will hear something real soon.
CaptRalph
New member
Good luck hearing back from Carlo. I had a running problem that kept my Spyder at the dealer for 63 days. Numerous calls and e-mails to Carlo went unanswered except for 1. I also left several voice mails to his supervisor a female whose name I have forgotten. She never had the courtesy to return any of them. I now have my bike back, it appears to be running ok (got my fingers crossed hoping that I can make it to SITS) but I still have an issue with the lights. My dealer has left Carlo several messages and the same as he did to me, the guy will not return his calls or e-mails. My dealer has even had problems contacting regular customer service. To quote another member, it seems to me that BRP is heading to where Harley was years ago. What a shame that Cust Support is not there to help us out. This could be a great product if they would just stand behind it a and listen to and respond to us the people spending the money on their product.
Spyderjockey
New member
I know how you feel....... and I know what a lot of people say that Carlo is overwhelmed with all of the problems people are having. It seems to me though that a simple email saying that they had received a message from you would at least let you know that they are there and did receive your message.....even if it was a message generated by the system. It makes you feel ignored when you send a lot of messages and not hear anything back. I am still "patiently" ?!!? waiting to hear back from Carlo and have sent 1 more email to him about more things I wanted him to know about my case. :gaah: Will continue to wait but would hope to get this whole thing resolved before we leave for Gatlinberg 1 week from today! Hope to see alot of you down there!
billythekidd
Member
I know how you feel....... and I know what a lot of people say that Carlo is overwhelmed with all of the problems people are having. It seems to me though that a simple email saying that they had received a message from you would at least let you know that they are there and did receive your message.....even if it was a message generated by the system. It makes you feel ignored when you send a lot of messages and not hear anything back. I am still "patiently" ?!!? waiting to hear back from Carlo and have sent 1 more email to him about more things I wanted him to know about my case. :gaah: Will continue to wait but would hope to get this whole thing resolved before we leave for Gatlinberg 1 week from today! Hope to see alot of you down there!
I am really new here, and have read almost every post on the board as I wait for my 2011. First, I would like to say, I hope you are taken care of in a manner that will be to your benefit. (get reimbursed)
As for the Carlo thing... I have been in a spot similar to his (Tier 2 support for a organization with over 20k people) and was the main number to call 24/7. In his case imagine getting even 100 emails a day (out of the 12000 or so Spyders I have read are out there in the US) and sending out an automated response. Then actually working on the first request which to that person is just as important as my request which was lets say the 50th email. At a large company a few days is not a big deal, but to the customer it seems like forever. So you send another email, and get another automated response which all it has done was add the inbox. Even if one sets up their inbox as I did so that specific emails from a client went to a folder for the client, there are times when one truly gets more than one can do. Now you have gotten 2 or more automated emails and have been on here or somewhere else (not you in the sense of you personally) and are now posting all you get is an automated response from the company, or person. What has been accomplished? At a place like BRP or any large company things move slow, sometimes painfully so. As long as the end result is in your favor, and I do not know from your conversation with them if you were told that, time is inconsequential.
Absolutely do not let this thing go, as it is your hard earned money, but a couple of days (from the time you spoke to now) is really nothing in the world of a large company.
Willy
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