BRP is not fair

[jgwoods]

Was your Spyder in warranty when the repairs were done? It is not clear from your post.
Out of curiosity how many miles do you have, and has your Spyder been serviced at the recommended intervals?

I cringe at the cost of parts and labor on the Spyders.

 

[musicarcade]

:agree:+1. As to why Carlo didn't respond in a timely manner I can't say .Almost any post I have read about Carlo is that he is a stand up guy !

:agree:about Carlo being a stand up guy, but he has been inundated from calls, at least that;s my take and what he basically said to me. I had called him 3 times for over a week and finally sent an e-mail where I semi- jokingly started the e-mail "Dear Carlo, you never write or never call..."
He called the next day stating he had called me several times, but I had no record of a return call since the 3 times I called.:dontknow:

Still, he gets things moving and I still glad that he's there to contact.nojoke

Although I haven't spoke with her I believe he has a woman that is working with him now.

 

[BajaRon]

So how does Carlo and BRP's lack of response, which is what the OP was unhappy with, fall back on the dealer?????:dontknow:

I didn't get that idea. My feeling is he is upset with #1-Cost, #2-Treatment by the dealer and #3-Lack of support by BRP. He woudn't even need BRP support if the dealer were treating him right.

I don't think anyone is saying that the lack of contact from Carlo is the dealers fault.

There are 2 separate allegations here.

1-The dealer is sticking it to the customer (which is the real issue. If the dealer where not taking advantage no one would even be talking about Carlo).

2-Carlo is not responding adequately to the 1st and primary issue.

I am not trying to make excuses for either.

It is obvious to me that the dealer is bad news and the major fly in the oitment on this one.

On the other hand, Carlo has come to the aid of many a SpyderLover and I just wanted to point that out. Even if Carlo is not coming through this time (which isn't a fact yet) I don't think it's reason to throw him in the trash.

 

[NancysToy]

I didn't get that idea. My feeling is he is upset with #1-Cost, #2-Treatment by the dealer and #3-Lack of support by BRP. He woudn't even need BRP support if the dealer were treating him right.

I don't think anyone is saying that the lack of contact from Carlo is the dealers fault.

There are 2 separate allegations here.

1-The dealer is sticking it to the customer (which is the real issue. If the dealer where not taking advantage no one would even be talking about Carlo).

2-Carlo is not responding adequately to the 1st and primary issue.

I am not trying to make excuses for either.

It is obvious to me that the dealer is bad news and the major fly in the oitment on this one.

On the other hand, Carlo has come to the aid of many a SpyderLover and I just wanted to point that out. Even if Carlo is not coming through this time (which isn't a fact yet) I don't think it's reason to throw him in the trash.

:agree:

 

[millers1]

http://www.ag.ny.gov/

 

[Spyderjockey]

The OP didn't complain about the dealer, he was/is upset about-

1. an apparent or perceived lack of standardization to the pulley replacement and associated costs processes

2. BRP's & Carlo's lack of acknowledgment to his dissatisfaction

Without pulling the manual out, I do recall reading somewhere that BRP recommends replacing both pulleys and the drive belt when any 1 of the 3 components is replaced. I don't believe the original servicing dealer is that far off base to be labeled 'bad news' or 'the major fly in the ointment', unless of course someone has first hand knowledge of the dealer and the incident in question.....How is it that someone can determine so readily it's the dealer that's 'sticking it to the customer'?.........

I think BRP and Carlo are 'sticking it to the customer', after all, they are the ones that the customer can't seem to get a hold of for clarification ..........

I just thought I would clarify my feelings about where the problems are:



1) When I found out that BRP would not warrantee this work I immediately tried to Carlo and got no response from messages I left on his voice mail nor from emails after weeks of trying to get him to respond. Then when he did respond finally when I was not at home he told my wife he had been trying to call us but could never get us. No message was ever left on my voice mail on the home phone and none on my cell phone. Caller ID never showed any number from him on either phone. . My wife told him that she wanted him to call my cell phone and he said that he would as soon as he hung up from talking to her....he never did! I also never received any emails from him. I do not like being ignored and/or, dare I say it, lied to!



2) Upon checking with others that had similar work done, I found out that I was the only one that had to pay for these repairs and again even though I had the 3 year extended warranty! Since my original post I still am the only one to the best of my knowledge that had to pay out of my own pocket. One person with no warranty at all neither the original nor an extended warranty had his repairs covered and all he paid was .7 of an hour labor.



3) Finding out that this person had only been charged .7 of an hour for labor and I was charged 3.5 hrs and the only thing that was done differently on my Spyder was that they replaced my rear sprocket. I can't believe that replacing the rear sprocket should have taken another 2.8 hrs. Since all of this has been transpiring I confronted the owner of the dealership of this huge difference he said that I complained to the mechanic about rough running and he said that was the difference. The mechanic had previously told me when I picked my up Spyder that he had test drove it for about 20 miles and to quote him " it ran flawlessly" and needed nothing to be done. I don't believe 20 miles of driving in the country should have taken 2.8 hrs. By the way I still have the rough running or surging between 3000 and 4000 RPMS.



There seems to be some confusion if I had an extended warranty, which I have just stated I do. I guess it wasn't clear when I was talking about how the other dealers would have only charged me the $50 deductible, that I did indeed have the extended warranty.



Another question came up about how many miles I had on it when this work was done, I had 33,000 miles on my Spyder at that point and now have over 36000 miles.



Another statement was made that if one sprocket has to be changed then the other sprocket and belt should be replaced to prevent "premature wearing out" of the new sprocket. I did a little cost analysis and figured that if I had to have this work done every 33,000 miles and both sprockets and belt were changed again at 66,000 miles it would have cost me $2030 at this mileage interval (using what it cost me this time as the constant). On the other hand if only the front sprocket was changed which is the only one that I feel really needed it at the 33,000 mile interval, it would have cost around $50 for the cost of that sprocket and .7 of an hour labor which is a little more than what BRP figures the flat rate should be and if you figure $80 an hour labor rate then the cost would have only been $106 for the part and labor. Then if you figure with "premature wear" I had to have the work done again at say 48,000 miles which would be only 15000 miles on the new front sprocket and I paid to have everything replaced(both sprockets and a new belt) at the same cost as I did this time paying $1015 (with what I believe is an inflated labor rate) then it still would have only cost me at the 48,000 mile interval $1121 and now all things being equal I am good for another 33,000 miles which would put me at 78,000 miles before I had to have another new front sprocket replaced. To me it is simple economics to only change what needs to be changed instead of changing all components every time.



I hope this wasn't too long to follow my reasoning. Even if you figure at a more reaonable labor rate of 2 hrs. @ $80 an hr. to change both sprockets and the belt I would still come out hundreds of dollars ahead by replacing only what needs to be replaced.



I tried to take a ride on my Spyder a couple of days ago and I was still so upset and outraged at all of this I just could not ride and felt very bitter and disgusted with this whole ordeal and felt like I would never enjoy riding it again. Today my wife and I took a ride and stopped to get something to eat and people came up to us asking questions about our Spyder, as people always do and to my amazement I still feel really good about owning the Spyder and answered all of their questions with almost the same enthusiasm that I did before all of this trouble began. The Spyder really is a great machine and is and will be part of our life in the future. I still feel that BRP customer service and their reps let us down and ignored us in the situation we find our selves with this dealer. To think that if I had gone to either other dealer...we would have only paid $50 and been covered under our extended warranty and saved over $950 sickens me. It just seems that BRP should have some kind of better standardization of what is covered and /or what is not. Instead, because I chose the wrong dealer in good faith that I would be dealt with fairly like the other people have been at other dealers, I have to pay dearly for that choice!!



Please excuse me for my long windedness......and thanks to all for all of the input into this matter.



Happy Spydering to all!!

 

[BajaRon]

I just thought I would clarify my feelings about where the problems are:

Please excuse me for my long windedness......and thanks to all for all of the input into this matter.

Happy Spydering to all!!

Not a problem, better than HDXBones and I arguing about what we thought you said.

But it does bring up a point. I have not consulted the manual. But I find it hard to believe that if your belt is bad you need to change out both sprockets as well. The belt alone is pretty expensive. Add the 2 sprockets and labor, who could afford to do that?

I've heard of several people here having new belts installed and I don't remember anyone saying they had to replace the sprockets as well (unless a sprocket was the original cause of belt failure).

I don't even remember anyone saying their dealer recommended changing all 3 with a belt change.

 

[NancysToy]

On page 417 of my version of the 2008/2009 GS/RS Shope Manual, it says, "When a drive belt is replaced, also replace the sprockets to increase longevity of the new drive belt." This may be a carryover from the days when they made chain driven motorcycles, as that is a common precaution with them. I think it is typical conservative overkill, but I can see why a dealer might go along for the ride...especially if there was a profit involved. I can find nothing in the manual that says to replace the belt and other sprocket when replacing either of the sprockets.

 

[BajaRon]

On page 417 of my version of the 2008/2009 GS/RS Shope Manual, it says, "When a drive belt is replaced, also replace the sprockets to increase longevity of the new drive belt." This may be a carryover from the days when they made chain driven motorcycles, as that is a common precaution with them. I think it is typical conservative overkill, but I can see why a dealer might go along for the ride...especially if there was a profit involved. I can find nothing in the manual that says to replace the belt and other sprocket when replacing either of the sprockets.

Thanks Scotty. True, that with a chain drive you're wasting your money if you don't replace both sprockets as well. Fortunatly, that whole exchange is usually less than just a belt for the Spyder.

I would be interested to know if there are some here who have replaced otherwise non-problematic sprockets with the belt replacement.

 

[Firefly]

Sure seems the main issue is an unscrupulous dealer... charging a customer for work that the warranty should cover--- either that or the dealer has been too lazy to actually look in to what the warranty covers.

I'm assuming this is a BEST warranty that we're talking about--- not some other 3rd party one.

I would be mad as:cus: if my dealer tried to pull this crap on me-- no way would I accept it.

 

[Firefly]

Not a problem, better than HDXBones and I arguing about what we thought you said.

TAG! Yer it !

:roflblack:

 

[Spyderjockey]

Sure seems the main issue is an unscrupulous dealer... charging a customer for work that the warranty should cover--- either that or the dealer has been too lazy to actually look in to what the warranty covers.

I'm assuming this is a BEST warranty that we're talking about--- not some other 3rd party one.

I would be mad as:cus: if my dealer tried to pull this crap on me-- no way would I accept it.

Yes it is the 3 year BEST warranty and I bought it at the same dealer where the work was done.

I am beyond mad as .....!!

 

[Spyderjockey]

I would be interested to know if there are some here who have replaced otherwise non-problematic sprockets with the belt replacement.

I too would like to know that also.

 

[BajaRon]

Yes it is the 3 year BEST warranty and I bought it at the same dealer where the work was done.

I am beyond mad as .....!!

My guess...the dealer makes squat doing warranty repair, they make bank doing customer pay repairs.

Follow the money...but don't let this one go.

 

[Firefly]

My guess...the dealer makes squat doing warranty repair, they make bank doing customer pay repairs.

Follow the money...but don't let this one go.

Correct... it's more than squat--- but nothing like customer $$$$ per hour charges....

If they really wanted to be crooked they could collect the $$$ from customer--- AND bill BRP under the warranty.:gaah:

 

[Raptor]

Correct... it's more than squat--- but nothing like customer $$$$ per hour charges....

If they really wanted to be crooked they could collect the $$$ from customer--- AND bill BRP under the warranty.:gaah:

Yeah, and not tell the customer. For all we know they could have done just that. Of course that is a strong allegation so I would be careful about that one.

I wonder if there is a way to track that. A BRP rep could easily find out whether or not a claim was filed for this work. Oh right, you would actually have to get a hold of someone from BRP in order for that to happen.

Enter problem number 2...

 

[fastfraser]

My guess...the dealer makes squat doing warranty repair, they make bank doing customer pay repairs.

Follow the money...but don't let this one go.

:2thumbs::agree: Big time on this ! Don't let this die . I would push this until you got some of your hard earned money back !

 

[BajaRon]

Correct... it's more than squat--- but nothing like customer $$$$ per hour charges....

If they really wanted to be crooked they could collect the $$$ from customer--- AND bill BRP under the warranty.:gaah:

Double dipping!?? That doesn't happen....Does it?!

 

[ameobe]

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

As it is just my opinion, I would have to point the finger at the dealer & see how BRP responds to you. Which I do hope is favorable for you.

The link to the AG may be away to turn it around if all else fails.

Good luck & keep us all posted.:thumbup:

 

[GaryTheBadger]

To answer a couple of you...

I replaced my belt when a small rock pierced it completely. I did not replace the sprocket because I am out of work and did not want to spend the $. For the first 100 miles after replacing the belt only, there were very tiny black belt flakes all over the rear of the bike. My guess is that the new drive belt was "wearing into" the used sprocket. The flakes have completely stopped now.

If I could have afforded it, I would have replaced the rear sprocket per the manual, maybe the front one too, considering what people have reported about front sprockets, but the belt alone was over $300 and my local dealer considers the belt a "wear item" not covered by warranty.