Best ECU flash results ever for me

[Bob Denman]

Rev Limit has nothing to do with power output.
Rev limit can extend top speed in a lower gear.
Or if peak power is above a factory rev limit or even if engine continue to pull well beyond it, then there is a benefit to raise limiter.
The 1330 continues to pull to 8800.

I should have state my questions a bit differently... pps:
Now that we know that the 1330 will build peak horsepower at 8,800 rpm: how much of it are we leaving "on the table", if the rev-limiter is either left stock, or only allowed to spin the engine to... let's say 8,400 rpm? :thumbup:

(I fully understand the concept of a rev-limiter being in place to protect the engine from being spun too fast. I also dig that shutting an engine down before it reaches it's power peak seems... wasteful! )
Oh! Thanks a bunch for putting up with my seemingly endless questions! :clap: :bowdown:

Just TWO more:
Have you run the 1330 on a dyno yet?
If you have: would you please post the results?

 

[Spyd_Piper]

I should have state my questions a bit differently... pps:
Now that we know that the 1330 will build peak horsepower at 8,800 rpm: how much of it are we leaving "on the table", if the rev-limiter is either left stock, or only allowed to spin the engine to... let's say 8,400 rpm? :thumbup:

(I fully understand the concept of a rev-limiter being in place to protect the engine from being spun too fast. I also dig that shutting an engine down before it reaches it's power peak seems... wasteful! )
Oh! Thanks a bunch for putting up with my seemingly endless questions! :clap: :bowdown:

Just TWO more:
Have you run the 1330 on a dyno yet?
If you have: would you please post the results?

Where do you get that peak power is at 8800? Read slower.

I am not at liberty to give or post dyno information. Rather relevant or not.

You are asking specific questions but not giving specific information.

First- What bike do you have?

What fuel do you run?
What exhaust do you run? full or slip on?
Cat or not?
Air filter?
Air box modifications?


If a stock bike has peak power at 7250rpm. Would have one flash. Rider would use a specific rpm range
A bike with free flowing intake and exhaust modifications, good fuel and timing remap makes peak power at 8200. Would have an extended or different usable rpm range.

Anybody familiar with riding a bike can easily decide if extra rpm is usable or not. A flash should be very specific to a bike and its setup. One size fits all type of flashing is very poor.

 

[TRLBLZR1]

It's common for manufacturers to build units with all the features and then only unlock them for the higher models. Computer chips used to do this as well. The new Tesla comes with the 'extra' batteries for longer range, but they are not unlocked for use on the base model. So you get like 200 mile range and if you want the 275 or whatever it is then you pay them $7,000 and they unlock it for you with software.

Certainly the F3 and the S have the same engine components... any difference in HP is controlled in the ECM.

I look forward to sending mine off after I get some other issues fixed.

Exactly lol.... Disabled PC cores on chips etc.
That was my point....

20% gain on an ECU remap makes sense.
But if you're 95% of the way there on the S model...

Would really like some info on ECU remapping gains as it pertains to the 2017 F3-S models specifically.
Personally, I'd like a little more torque (down low before she howls/growls), but NOT at the expense of engine longevity/reliability. ~ Don't want to give up durability!

 

[Bob Denman]

Where do you get that peak power is at 8800? Read slower.

I am not at liberty to give or post dyno information. Rather relevant or not.

You are asking specific questions but not giving specific information.

First- What bike do you have?

What fuel do you run?
What exhaust do you run? full or slip on?
Cat or not?
Air filter?
Air box modifications?


If a stock bike has peak power at 7250rpm. Would have one flash. Rider would use a specific rpm range
A bike with free flowing intake and exhaust modifications, good fuel and timing remap makes peak power at 8200. Would have an extended or different usable rpm range.

Anybody familiar with riding a bike can easily decide if extra rpm is usable or not. A flash should be very specific to a bike and its setup. One size fits all type of flashing is very poor.

2018 RT-L
93 octane
stock intake & exhaust.

 

[Spyd_Piper]

2018 RT-L
93 octane
stock intake & exhaust.

Same camshafts, Airbox and exhaust as pre 2018? Same 8100 stock rev limit?

You can't get an answer on usable rpm range based on something that isn't even made yet.

 

[Spyd_Piper]

Exactly lol.... Disabled PC cores on chips etc.
That was my point....

20% gain on an ECU remap makes sense.
But if you're 95% of the way there on the S model...

Would really like some info on ECU remapping gains as it pertains to the 2017 F3-S models specifically.
Personally, I'd like a little more torque (down low before she howls/growls), but NOT at the expense of engine longevity/reliability. ~ Don't want to give up durability!

Contact them and ask for a money back guarantee. Buy it. Try it. Keep it or return to go back stock and get refund. I am sure they would do it.

 

[Bob Denman]

Same camshafts, Airbox and exhaust as pre 2018? Same 8100 stock rev limit?

You can't get an answer on usable rpm range based on something that isn't even made yet.

Oh! No change to the 2018 engines. They're the same as the 2014 to 2017 versions...

 

[Spyd_Piper]

Oh! No change to the 2018 engines. They're the same as the 2014 to 2017 versions...

Then its already been answered. But to sum it up again,
Peak power will be within the stock rev limit. You won't loose anything.
But it will pull to 8800. So each lower gear can be extended if you want to shift less. Or your riding style likes high rpm.
However, you stated you never go above 7000.
A good reserve (for future modifications or a new riding style) would be to limit at 8500-8600.
You also asked about warranty and the answer there was stay stock rev limiter.

 

[five-0]

Are you stating that with "torque limiter" removed or reduced i can go around a corner with one fronttire in the air and not be slowed down by the " nanny" and still stay on full power.:bowdown: :yes: :clap:

 

[TRLBLZR1]

Are you stating that with "torque limiter" removed or reduced i can go around a corner with one fronttire in the air and not be slowed down by the " nanny" and still stay on full power.:bowdown: :yes: :clap:

Two parts to the nanny. One is anti-tip which you can't avoid. (So no, you shouldn't have front tires off the ground for long lol/col.) But the other one is anti-slip (which on the 2017's at least) can be completely disabled. Haven't tried it yet because I have little interest in smoking off my tires. (Also seems rather difficult to do anyways on a SE model, unless disabling the anti-slip also enhances low-end torque.) = A question I've been meaning to ask!

 

[monkeyboymorton]

To Spyd_Piper

What I think Bob is trying to say (apologies if not) and what I think a few of us want to know is this:

• What is the performance increase across the normal rev range (say 0-7500rpm) with this remap
• Lets assume a standard bike with the 1330 for this question
• Is there only a gain by revving the engine higher?
• Or is there a gain by not revving any higher than stock?

My own assumption is that there will be a gain in the normal rev range from improved timing, fuelling etc, and Dennis' posts indicate this. But I don't have any evidence to back this up.

If you want me to be specific about my bike it's an F3, 2015, 1330 SE6, no mods, 95RON fuel (about 91 octane US equivalent).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks for helping me out! That is exactly what I was so awkwardly referring to! pps:

 

[Firefly]

While raising the rpm limiter will extend your pull in each gear, it's unlikely (and inefficient) to wind it to max rpm in each gear. You're better (and quicker) if you hit the top power band and then shift. The higher rpm limit should give you a higher top speed, but I know people who have hit 140 on an F3. Anyone really want or need more than that? Not me.
I want more quickness, not top end.
This ecm update sounds like a great idea.... until someone like Aerocharger comes out with a kit for the 1330. I'm hoping they do.

 

[Bob Denman]

Dan,
Do you remember the price of those Aerocharger kits??
($5,000)



That's why I'm looking at more reasonable alternatives!

(But if you let them use your bike for the development of a kit: they've GOT to give you a break on the price!)

 

[trikermutha]

I wish you were closer I love to see your RT Spyder and results from this improvement. I always felt the Spyder is holding back what it can really do.

 

[Spyd_Piper]

oh.
Gains are from 1000rpm to 9000rpm. Everywhere above 60% throttle. - This was given by Dennis early on.

There are many things that go into remapping. But as a real good example on this 1330,
As a rider, you would assume that when you crack the throttle (ask for 100%) then thats what you get. Not true.
It will vary depending on conditions. Very seldom ever getting even near full throttle.
30 or 40% throttle opening into a 1330 cc engine is not laying down a lot of power. Too much acceleration or even sign of wheel slip - throttle closes. Reach a certain speed, throttle closes.

Just allowing full throttle is a huge increase. Then tuning and remapping yields up to 20% torque increase at ALL rpm. It becomes quite a different bike.

Not many people have actually felt what the 1330 can actually do.

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

new testing buddy on board

Thanks to the powers of the forum, I have a new testing buddy who has a brand new F3s. As I suggested about testing your stock performance yourself, this gentleman already conducted those test on HIS F3s. He reports my stock test results are pretty much spot on for HIS F3s. So much for an F3s being a hotter bike??? We will be getting together very soon as have always enjoyed letting anyone play with my toys. I'm 20 minutes north of Madison WI. If forum members who really have an interest in what this gentleman says about HIS OPINION, I'll encourage him to post.

I wish you were closer I love to see your RT Spyder and results from this improvement. I always felt the Spyder is holding back what it can really do.

 

[Spyd_Piper]

I will add some more information. That should be straight forward.

1 - The engine rating of 115hp and 96ft lbs is based on current installed use. This can change with modifications. (airflow and mapping etc)
2 - The ecu programming design is Torque Based. (Common new school tuning)
3 - It requests, allows or limits torque output as programmed for different scenarios.
4 - Nowhere in the stock programming is 96ft lbs requested or allowed.
5 - If you've never heard your intake "honk" under acceleration - you simply aren't getting full power.
6 - Step 1 - Allowing stock ratings to be obtained. Step 2 - Retune engine for better output. (its not only peak power - its all rpm)


Here is example of Torque Limiting in action.

 

[Bob Denman]

Dennis,
I think that you misunderstand what we're saying... nojoke
ANYTIME we see something that sounds too good to be true: we're going to ask for some verification of those claims. This certainly isn't a rap against your and the folks at Monster Fuel injection: it's just common sense!
We ask what we think are pertinent questions because we're interested in this exciting project, and want to learn more. :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

You just cost them a sale...
After thinking about what the Piper had posted: I was feeling confident enough to bite down on this one.
They can thank you; for your great salesmanship. :clap: