Backfiring thru the throttle body

[Pilo]

Recently installed KewlMetal's Air Filter Kit on my 2009 SE5 (+/- 6K miles, with Hindle) with 3 purposes:

1.- To get rid of the oil-in-the-air-box-syndrome.
2.- To get rid of the original (and enormous) air-box, and thus have complete access to the engine upper sections, including the very basic: the front cylinder spark-plug.
3.- To use K&N non-disposable / cleanable filter elements, instead of disposable units.

Now whenever I ride it in hot days in traffic (almost always), there is a more-than-occasional backfiring thru the throttle body when I crack-open the throttle while the engine is revving in low RPM's.

I have just disconnected the battery cables and will later do the fuel map resetting (15 minutes idling, 15 minutes cool-off, and then ride it hard), to see if this will do away with the backfiring.

Any ideas / suggestions are always appreciated.

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Firefly]

Recently installed KewlMetal's Air Filter Kit on my 2009 SE5 (+/- 6K miles, with Hindle) with 3 purposes:

1.- To get rid of the oil-in-the-air-box-syndrome.
2.- To get rid of the original (and enormous) air-box, and thus have complete access to the engine upper sections, including the very basic: the front cylinder spark-plug.
3.- To use K&N non-disposable / cleanable filter elements, instead of disposable units.

Now whenever I ride it in hot days in traffic (almost always), there is a more-than-occasional backfiring thru the throttle body when I crack-open the throttle while the engine is revving in low RPM's.

I have just disconnected the battery cables and will later do the fuel map resetting (15 minutes idling, 15 minutes cool-off, and then ride it hard), to see if this will do away with the backfiring.

Any ideas / suggestions are always appreciated.

Saludos, Pilo

What exhaust are you running?
Might want to check your Y gaskets.... and possibly get a Juice Box....

 

[Pilo]

What exhaust are you running?
Might want to check your Y gaskets.... and possibly get a Juice Box....

Recently installed KewlMetal's Air Filter Kit on my 2009 SE5 (+/- 6K miles, with Hindle)...

The back-firing is thru the throttle body, not thru the exhaust system...

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Pilo]

Burping...?

Recently installed KewlMetal's Air Filter Kit on my 2009 SE5 (+/- 6K miles, with Hindle)...

The back-firing is thru the throttle body, not thru the exhaust system...

Saludos, Pilo

Should I have said "burping" instead of backfiring...? pps:

Don't remember the right 'technical' word for it... :dontknow:

Saludos, Pilo

 

[SpyderWolf]

Do you have a Juice Box installed?

From the other posts and reports I have read on here, the combination of that filter and the Hindle will require the use of a Juice Box as well. The reason is now your engine is running too lean, and the fuel mapping of the stock ECM cannot compensate for both of those changes at the same time.

 

[Pilo]

Juice box...?

Do you have a Juice Box installed?

From the other posts and reports I have read on here, the combination of that filter and the Hindle will require the use of a Juice Box as well. The reason is now your engine is running too lean, and the fuel mapping of the stock ECM cannot compensate for both of those changes at the same time.

Please enlighten me about the 'juice box'..., don't spare details...

 

[ntxYguy2009]

Take a look here:

http://www.esicycleproducts.com/fuelcontroller.html

David

 

[SpyderWolf]

Please enlighten me about the 'juice box'..., don't spare details...

It is produced by Two Brothers Racing, and is a Premium Fuel Controller. It basically allows you to program the air/fuel mixture much better than the ECM is able to, which gives you increased performance and possibly even better mileage.

Here is everything you could ever want to know about it, and then some:

http://www.twobros.com/Perf_Products/Juice_Box/JuiceBox.htm

Hope that helps.

 

[bone crusher]

I'm thinking too much oxygen, not enough fuel...the juicebox will enable you to put more fuel into the mix...this will help with the additional air that's getting in...richen up your mix a little.

You really need a JB...it is really awesome...behind the mudflaps, it's my favorite mod!

 

[Tom in NM]

Pilo, what altitude are you running at? I know you have high temps, but in general, what are the ranges you ride in?

Also, I am not clear on what you are experiencing. The "burping" or "back-firing" "through the throttle" is hard for me to understand. Maybe you could describe the conditions a little more.

A juice box may just be what you need - BUT - given that you are in a country hundreds of miles away from a BRP dealership and pretty much on your own mechanically, I would recommend you think about it. Personally, I am not comfortable adding another computer into the already complex mix of computers and settings on the Spyder - especially for general riding ( as opposed to track racing ).

As you have seen, there are many on this forum that swear by a juice box and recommend it unconditionally for just about anything, situation or riding style. But, as you have seen by modifying your air filters, it will introduce a chain of adjustments and tuning issues that you will have to deal with. In some rider's experiences, this has been easy - sort of "plug and play" hardware on a computer. Others have had different experiences.

In my experience, adding a juice box is for a specific kind of riding and rider. Hopefully someone on the forum has a similar riding profile to yours and juice box experience that they can share and advise you on.

Tom

 

[Pilo]

Throttle body it is...

Pilo, what altitude are you running at? I know you have high temps, but in general, what are the ranges you ride in?

Also, I am not clear on what you are experiencing. The "burping" or "back-firing" "through the throttle" is hard for me to understand. Maybe you could describe the conditions a little more.

A juice box may just be what you need - BUT - given that you are in a country hundreds of miles away from a BRP dealership and pretty much on your own mechanically, I would recommend you think about it. Personally, I am not comfortable adding another computer into the already complex mix of computers and settings on the Spyder - especially for general riding ( as opposed to track racing ).

As you have seen, there are many on this forum that swear by a juice box and recommend it unconditionally for just about anything, situation or riding style. But, as you have seen by modifying your air filters, it will introduce a chain of adjustments and tuning issues that you will have to deal with. In some rider's experiences, this has been easy - sort of "plug and play" hardware on a computer. Others have had different experiences.

In my experience, adding a juice box is for a specific kind of riding and rider. Hopefully someone on the forum has a similar riding profile to yours and juice box experience that they can share and advise you on.

Tom

Hi Friend:

I ride mostly at sea-level elevations. I did a couple of mountain trips and even went thru 13000 + feet altitudes, but I had the original air-box at that time (so I did not experience the burping..., but had the oil-in-the-airbox problem :cus: ).

The burping / backfiring / miss is thru the throttle-body, the area located between the air-box and the injectors. That's the term BRP uses for it; I would call it the intake 'manifold'...

I am not yet sold on the idea of fiddling with another electronic device on the SE5, I am just trying to figure out if there could be an easy solution to this problem.

I will do the ECU resetting "protocol" today, and see if it takes care of the problem.

Your opinion is surely being appreciated.

Regards, Pilo

 

[Babymoose]

One question first. You didn't mention it but is your idle smooth? I notice you mention it is only on hot days is that accurate?

 

[Pilo]

One question first. You didn't mention it but is your idle smooth? I notice you mention it is only on hot days is that accurate?

Moose:

Idle is smooth as silk.

In Venezuela, and especially in Maracaibo, every day is a hot day...

Average temp here (all year round...) is 95-100° F :yikes:

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Tom in NM]

. . . . . . The burping / backfiring / miss is thru the throttle-body, the area located between the air-box and the injectors. That's the term BRP uses for it; I would call it the intake 'manifold'...

Pilo, I don't know - but that won't stop me from guessing - I have read on other posts that they also were getting manifold noise after taking off the air box - in effect, that the sounds you are hearing are a natural product of how the engine operates - with the air box (also) acting as a muffler for those sounds. In some cases, I "recall" people posting that they went back to the air box because the sounds were too loud.

Perhaps some people with real knowledge can comment on this.

There are other solutions for oil in the air box, KRB1945 has written about a simple one: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=krb1945+filter Maybe something like this would work better for you.

Oh, you might also try contacting Matt at KewlMetal for his opinion and possible options - he always comes across as a great guy and is very caring and responsive.

Tom

 

[Pilo]

Pilo, I don't know - but that won't stop me from guessing - I have read on other posts that they also were getting manifold noise after taking off the air box - in effect, that the sounds you are hearing are a natural product of how the engine operates - with the air box (also) acting as a muffler for those sounds. In some cases, I "recall" people posting that they went back to the air box because the sounds were too loud.

Perhaps some people with real knowledge can comment on this.

There are other solutions for oil in the air box, KRB1945 has written about a simple one: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=krb1945+filter Maybe something like this would work better for you.

Oh, you might also try contacting Matt at KewlMetal for his opinion and possible options - he always comes across as a great guy and is very caring and responsive.

Tom

Tom:

You are right, the original air-box also acts as a muffler to quiet down the suction sounds.

And yes, the KewlMetal kit makes the SE5 louder (+ the Hindle sound...)

But the occasional misfire is a loud pop (not from the exhaust) when I open the throttle while in low revs.

I already tried the sponge in the hose and had bad results. It got dirty, it clogged, stifled the breathing, and the resulting pressure inside the crankcase blew off an oil seal behind the front sprocket... That is why I decided to go the KewlMetal way. The breathing hose discharges the oil mist / droplets directly into the throttle-body.

I will try to get in touch with Matt. Do you happen to have his contact details (e-mail, cell phone, Skype...)...?

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Tom in NM]

I will try to get in touch with Matt. Do you happen to have his contact details (e-mail, cell phone, Skype...)...?

Saludos, Pilo

Sent it to you.

Hey, you need to post some pictures of Spyder-life down there. I would love to see them.

Tom

 

[Pilo]

Sent it to you.

Hey, you need to post some pictures of Spyder-life down there. I would love to see them.

Tom

Got them, thanks...

Not many Spyders here in Venezuela, probably 2 (or 3 if you count mine...)

Some pics:

 

[Pilo]

More pics...

Spyder in Venezuela...

 

[Pilo]

And some more...

Pics from a Spyder in Venezuela...

 

[Pilo]

Pilo- it sure sounds like it could be detonation from a 'too lean' mixture. Does it 'surge' or RPM's vary at steady throttle position in the midrange areas? Any afterfiring or 'popping' in the exhaust during a hard or rapid engine deceleration under load? All those are signs of leanness. Changing the exhaust AND the intake has increased the amount of air that your engine can flow, fuel delivery typically needs to be increased also. The Juicebox is one method of accomplishing this.

Nope, I doesn't surge or varies RPM's. I did the canisterectomy a while back, and plugged the intake of the servo / purge valve.

Yes, it has always backfired thru the exhaust system (Hindle installed) in the conditions you mention. I always thought it was caused by some leaks in the system joints, but never related it to the fuel mix.