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A suprise

arris

New member
Today I received a call from BRP and if I have any issues with the spyder. I answered that I have one issue with it and that is how high rpms that the engine must run. They asked me at what rpms do I shift and I really can't tell because to me I shift when I hear the engine developing a high sound. I was told to shift between 5000 and 5500 rpms. I then asked if they were in a hurry to sell more spyders. Then they said that it would not hurt the motor to run that high. Does any one else shift this high?
What is the average rpms that you all shift. Mine is a 2009 SM5. Then they asked me if I was happy with the dealer that I bought it from. More than happy :yes:as they took care of me on the purchase price and service.
 
Today I received a call from BRP and if I have any issues with the spyder. I answered that I have one issue with it and that is how high rpms that the engine must run. They asked me at what rpms do I shift and I really can't tell because to me I shift when I hear the engine developing a high sound. I was told to shift between 5000 and 5500 rpms. I then asked if they were in a hurry to sell more spyders. Then they said that it would not hurt the motor to run that high. Does any one else shift this high?
What is the average rpms that you all shift. Mine is a 2009 SM5. Then they asked me if I was happy with the dealer that I bought it from. More than happy :yes:as they took care of me on the purchase price and service.
I SHIFT AT 5000 RPMS
 
The Rotax engine is made to run at high rpms. You will actually get better performance if you run the engine in the "happy" range. Most of us now shift in the 5000-5500 rpm range. This means that you will not normally use the 5th gear until you are riding 65mph or higher. In town, I sometimes don't get out of second gear.

When I first started riding, I was going by sound and feel, but now I shift by tach indicator. There have been some who have messed up the :spyder2: tranny by riding it and lugging it at low rpms to much.
 
The Rotax engine is made to run at high rpms. You will actually get better performance if you run the engine in the "happy" range. Most of us now shift in the 5000-5500 rpm range. This means that you will not normally use the 5th gear until you are riding 65mph or higher. In town, I sometimes don't get out of second gear.

When I first started riding, I was going by sound and feel, but now I shift by tach indicator. There have been some who have messed up the :spyder2: tranny by riding it and lugging it at low rpms to much.

:agree: I shift @ 6000 RPM's
 
I shift up (lower to higher) at 5,000 plus. I shift down (higher to lower) at 4,000. I try real hard to never let it be less than 3,500 unless I'm in 1st gear. Since doing this my mileage has improved a little bit--not a lot, just a little bit. Why higher RPMs gives better mileage is beyond me. I tried to understand why, but I just didn't understand.
 
I shift up (lower to higher) at 5,000 plus. I shift down (higher to lower) at 4,000. I try real hard to never let it be less than 3,500 unless I'm in 1st gear. Since doing this my mileage has improved a little bit--not a lot, just a little bit. Why higher RPMs gives better mileage is beyond me. I tried to understand why, but I just didn't understand.

Gear ratio and torque. The Spyder tranny, pre 2014, is geared high. The higher shifting range is mainly for the SE5. It requires the higher rpm because of the wet clutch. Lower rpm shifting doesn't allow the clutch to fully grip. This results in burned clutch packs. The SM5 is not as critical.
 
Gear ratio and torque. The Spyder tranny, pre 2014, is geared high. The higher shifting range is mainly for the SE5. It requires the higher rpm because of the wet clutch. Lower rpm shifting doesn't allow the clutch to fully grip. This results in burned clutch packs. The SM5 is not as critical.
Oh....so it is not due to motor efficiency, but due to transmission/clutch slipping.... No wonder I couldn't understand since I was trying to learn about motor efficiency and applying it to the Spyder. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
 
Today I received a call from BRP and if I have any issues with the spyder. I answered that I have one issue with it and that is how high rpms that the engine must run. They asked me at what rpms do I shift and I really can't tell because to me I shift when I hear the engine developing a high sound. I was told to shift between 5000 and 5500 rpms. I then asked if they were in a hurry to sell more spyders. Then they said that it would not hurt the motor to run that high. Does any one else shift this high?
What is the average rpms that you all shift. Mine is a 2009 SM5. Then they asked me if I was happy with the dealer that I bought it from. More than happy :yes:as they took care of me on the purchase price and service.

shift to 2nd around 28, 3rd around 45 and 4th 54 and 5th over 70 and put on cruise
 
The Spyder doesn't even come alive until five grand. Try the higher rpm and you will discover a whole new machine. Lots more power and lots more throttle response. You will not hurt your engine as long as you shift before the redline.
 
I have owned my spyder for about 15 months, and I have a little over 14,000 miles on her. I run my spyder in the higher RPM range (over 5000) since the day I got it. I have never once had any engine, or transmission issues. I average 30 miles to the gallon no matter how hard I play.
Long story short; I ride my spyder like the rear fender is on fire and the rest of it is catching and have had no problems. RPMs are a good thing.

Just sayin'............
 
Have to agree..!!

with all above shifting above 5,000 rpms. In many cases higher yet. On the freeways don't hit 5th till well into the 70's around 6,000 rpm's. This is where our RS sm5 likes to be. All vibrations, harmonic, belt etc. don't appear and it is smooth sailing. Does take a bit to get used to it but once you do you will enjoy the ryde even more...:thumbup:
 
For the op, I also have a 09 sm5. I shift up at 6000 or more unless its 1st gear to second I try to shift a little earlier, say 5700. From there I ring out the gears a little more as I go through them.

When downshifting I try to have the gear I go into have revs about 4500 or higher. Never lower than 4000 in the gears 2 through 5.

When cruising I want the revs between 4800 and 6000 no matter the gear. Of course at freeway speeds you'll be in 5th and quite a bit over 6000.

This keeps the machine in the powerband. I don't consider it a high revving machine like some. There are many you have to rev higher, much higher.
 
shifting

i shift between 5 and 6 k. when the buds report was sent to brp they could see my shifting points and said i was shifting at the right rpm's but as far as them calling me, lol they don't want to talk to me at all
 
For the op, I also have a 09 sm5. I shift up at 6000 or more unless its 1st gear to second I try to shift a little earlier, say 5700. From there I ring out the gears a little more as I go through them.

When downshifting I try to have the gear I go into have revs about 4500 or higher. Never lower than 4000 in the gears 2 through 5.

When cruising I want the revs between 4800 and 6000 no matter the gear. Of course at freeway speeds you'll be in 5th and quite a bit over 6000.

This keeps the machine in the powerband. I don't consider it a high revving machine like some. There are many you have to rev higher, much higher.

:agree: As sport bikes go the Spyder is not high revving (or high strung), it is below average. As touring bikes go the Spyder is a high revver, however. It is around average for a sport tourer. No matter what machine you ride you have to adapt your shifting to the engine characteristics of that machine. I'm not sure why so many owners have difficulty with that, but many do. Keep it under the redline, and usually above about halfway to the redline, and the engines perform best and last longest, IMO. I have machines that redline at 14K and will hardly run at five grand, and others that redline at five grand and would explode if you went higher, but will go down the road at 1,500 rpm with plenty of power and torque. All machines are different, treat them as individuals.
 
Question about the "990 vs 991" differences...
Since the 990 used in the RS is tuned for a much different powerband; do you think that it would require a different shift protocal than the RT's 991 engine?
(The 990 makes it's power at least 750 rpm further up the rev scale...)

Once I got the entire clutch issues straight in my feeble mind; I was shifting my RT at 4800 to 5200 rpm. I'td keep me well above the dreaded "slipping clutch plates zone"... :shocked:
 
I shift up (lower to higher) at 5,000 plus. I shift down (higher to lower) at 4,000. I try real hard to never let it be less than 3,500 unless I'm in 1st gear. Since doing this my mileage has improved a little bit--not a lot, just a little bit. Why higher RPMs gives better mileage is beyond me. I tried to understand why, but I just didn't understand.

It is really pretty simple. It's all about the sweet spot where power and efficiency meet. In baseball, if a hitter's bat strikes the ball too early in the swing or too late in the swing the ball doesn't go very far. But if the bat strikes the ball in the hitter's 'Sweet Spot', even a weaker hitter can send the ball a long way. A strong hitter has a bigger sweet spot than a weaker hitter. But they all have them.

This is something like what an engine does. If you shift too early or too late, outside of the engine's sweet spot, you're going to loose efficiency and it's hard on components. Not only that but running your engine where it makes the most power (highest efficiency) you're going to go further on a gallon of fuel and get better gas mileage too.

I know this chart is a bit hard to read. But the first entry is 3,000 RPM with increments of 500 RPM after that. You can see that they don't even start the HP/TQ figures until 3,500 RPM which gives you 35hp and 50ft/lbs tq to work with. That's not much so the clutches slip on an SE5 so you don't kill the engine or work it too hard this far from its sweet spot.

A little clutch slippage is fine, they are designed for that. A lot of clutch slippage is not good and that's where people get themselves into trouble.

When you get to 5,500 RPM you've nearly doubled the HP output at 65 and you're at peek TQ at 65ft/lbs. From here TQ begins to fall off but HP continues to build until about 7,500 RPM

Spyder-RT-990-10-20-M5-BS-dynochart_zps7ddb9596.jpg

For reference, here is a Harley power curve chart. The Spyder is a 998cc motor and the chart is rear wheel figures. The Harley engine listed is 1,575cc (63% bigger) and I don't know if the chart figures are crank shaft or rear wheel, but for this example it doesn't matter that much.

As you can see, where the Spyder doesn't really start making power until 5,500 RPM, the Harley starts making power much sooner. At just 1,500 RPM this engine is making 60ft/lbs of torque. That is idle speed on the Spyder. HP is less than 20 but Torque is what moves you. That's why you can 'Chupida, Chupida your Harley down the road at very low RPM and be fine with it. It's engineered for that.

Max torque is reached at 3,000 RPM on this engine with everything falling completely off the map at 5,500 RPM.

Right about the time the Harley is done, our Spyder is just coming alive.

Would you run this Harley at 7,000 RPM? You wouldn't run it there long before you'd destroy it. Same thing with the Spyder in reverse. Run it much below 5,000 RPM and you're going to destroy it, though not as quickly as running the Harley at 7k

So, the sweet spot on our Spyder is roughly 5,500~8,500 RPM. The sweet spot on the Harley is roughly 2,500~5,000 RPM.

The moral of this story is; Don't buy a Harley and ride it like a Spyder. And Don't buy a Spyder and ride it like a Harley. If you do, neither you or your ride will be happy campers.

2008-Harley-Davidson-Ultra-Classic-Electra-Glide-Test-Stermer-101.jpg
 
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