1330 OIL REPORT

[Tango]

so is it ok to run the motorcycle 10x40 amsoil.

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. :banghead: "It's not what BRP calls for". :lecturef_smilie: Tom :trike:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for the headsup! I should be good for the rest of the season this year, so hopefully we will have more information on what the best oil will be to use by then. With this being a new first year engine, what you guys are doing makes perfect sense. I'm sure BRP tested this engine, but the real testing begins when it gets to us. I hate that sometimes, but with costs the way they are it would be impossible to do really extensive testing or extremely cost prohibitive.

 

[ulflyer]

My dealer refused to use the Amsoil 10-40. :banghead: "It's not what BRP calls for". :lecturef_smilie: Tom :trike:

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways.

 

[ulflyer]

It didn't take long to find this. Still looking for what "type" it is. Class III or IV?


The typical TBN value for Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic Oil SAE
5W-40 is 10.6.

Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!

Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TBN VALUE ??????

I suspect its III only. A great many "synthetics" are these days. However, oil refining has progressed so much in past few years, conventional oil is rapidly gaining on the synthetics. I believe this is why we now see a number of bike and auto companies espousing the use of Blends. Only a very few years ago a Blend was looked down on as a waste of money, now it seems to be a favorite.

As to T6, it takes a lot of viscosity improvers to get that wide a spread and the wider it is, the quicker it shears. This has been borne out by numerous lab tests on BITOG. Nevertheless, if it holds up on the 1330, that would be great.

:2excited: ray:......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver :thumbup:

 

[Tango]

The dealer I bought my '11 from said the same. He's no longer my dealer, and didn't get my service business or when I traded it for the '14! Works both ways.

The 11's and the 14's are different engines with different specs. :lecturef_smilie: My dealer would have used an alternative oil if I had brought it in. :thumbup: Their suggestion was to get some "Bel Ray" 5-40. :hun: If Amsoil had a 5-40 it would have been used. They stock all Amsoil oils. :thumbup: Tom :trike:

 

[sddinnh]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

 

[Tango]

:2excited: ray:......So is the " TBN " value of 10.6 - a good number ( re. Rotella T-6 Syn ) ? ? ?......................Mikeguyver :thumbup:

Mike 10.6 TBN is good. Using a 12 or 13 would be better. Shell Rotella is a Type III oil. It is not a true synthetic, but a highly refined dino oil. I believe the term used is "hydra fracked". :dontknow: What I don't care for is the wide spread in weight. With a 5-40 type III, the additive package volume wise is large. My two cars call for 0-20 oil. Further more. To be called a semi synthetic oil all they need to do is add 10% synthetic to it. The max is 30%. The oil game is big money. Using the wrong weight while under warranty gives them an easy out! :yikes: Tom :trike:

 

[ulflyer]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. I suspect the majority of folks on this forum do just that. There have been
some really high milers...forget the numbers but up near 100K or perhaps more....with BRP dealer installed oil.

I've never run any BRP oil and had it tested so I have no definite knowledge of how it stacks up against other brands and the bottom line is, how the heck do any of us know what is "better"??? Its just our beliefs and gut feelings that make us want to use something else that we "think" might be better! Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

 

[PW2013STL]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Not a stupid question at all.

The purpose of my post was to show that the BRP oil and their recommended change at 9300 miles is ok based on the test results. Now that I know that the cSt viscosity is low (20w oil level tested at 6000 miles) I am a little concerned about it going to a full 9300 miles, but it still tests out fine.

I personally like Mobil 1, but I am not trying to get others to switch, just stating what I am doing. I will also have a test run at 6000 miles on it and see how it compares. I will also post that - good or bad.

 

[sddinnh]

Some of us old motorheads like to get all involved in oil discussions, a topic we enjoy.

Oh I enjoy a good oil discussion as well. but since my disability kicked in and I can't get down there to change it, I was just interested if it was something I should try to talk my dealer into. I guess in one sense, I'm a little concerned also and have been changing oil between 3-4000. It's more money, but I'd rather err on the safe side.

 

[Tango]

I'm going to ask a stupid question. For those of us too "broken" to work on our own bikes, what's wrong with just taking it into a dealer, and having the oil and filter changes done with the good old BRP stuff? I mean, really how much better are all those other oils?

Steve in no way is this a stupid question! :lecturef_smilie: It's a great question IMO. And is exactly what I do myself. :thumbup: I have no problem letting the dealer do all the maintenance. I will probably never do 9300 miles in one year. So getting the oil changed once a year by the dealer suits me just fine. In the old days I did ALL my oil changes, bike, cars, trucks. Butt, since having my spine fused in two spots, and a belly that makes me look 9 months pregnant. Those days are over. I love talking about oil. And I only stress using the correct oil for your situation. That is "motorcycle oil" in your motorcycle. :thumbup: Tom :thumbup:

 

[billybovine]

Rottela T6

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?6390-FYI-Shell-Rotella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

WHAT TANGO SAID ....(TOM )

Why not accomplish a small reality check. Take samples of new unused oil and have them tested as a baseline. This would include the BRP mystery oils, both synthetic and blended.

Post the results of each oil as new.

Then if various machines are run with these oils, the results could be posted at a later date.

The Rotella T6 meets the text book definition in the owners manual for the 1330.

5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.

So with the knowledge pool gathered here...what in the world is a 5w40 semi-synthetic (minimum), and what is the maximum. Does this mean 20w50 is above the minimum? Is the minimum that it must be at least semi synthetic.

Also, is it really that important if the oil is a III or IV. If it meets the specs called for by engineering, then anything better is more than needed.

All the best with it.

PK

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:..............I AGREE WITH YOU 110 %...............​What's your opinion about tom's remark's in post # 71 ( not criticizing Him ) just trying to learn ....Mikeguyver :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

---

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

2011 VS> 2014

In 2011 I was new to the Spyder world an new to this board. At the time there were a lot of posts on how great an oil and inexpensive Rottela T6 was. So when I changed my oil that is what I used. My clutch started slipping after about 600 miles. After some questions on this board I was direct to this thread http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?6390-FYI-Shell-Rotella-synthetic. I dumped the oil and put in BRP oil and it took a couple hundred miles and the clutch slipping stopped. If I had of read that first I would not have tried it.

Now this thread is for the 1330 engine and this issue may very well not apply. Especially since, do not use SM rated oil warning, does not apply to this engine. I bring this up just for informative purposes.

Also in this thread are posts referring to when BRP brought out their own blend of oil instead of relabeling someones elses. That is when the viscosities changed and the recommendation for Spyders changed to blended instead of full synthetic.

:dontknow:......Billy ...I don't think the formula was the same ......................Mikeguyver :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[billybovine]

Why not accomplish a small reality check. Take samples of new unused oil and have them tested as a baseline. This would include the BRP mystery oils, both synthetic and blended.

Post the results of each oil as new.

Then if various machines are run with these oils, the results could be posted at a later date.

The Rotella T6 meets the text book definition in the owners manual for the 1330.

5W40 semi-synthetic (minimum)
or synthetic motorcycle oil
meeting the requirements for API service
SL, SJ, SH, SG or higher classification.

So with the knowledge pool gathered here...what in the world is a 5w40 semi-synthetic (minimum), and what is the maximum. Does this mean 20w50 is above the minimum? Is the minimum that it must be at least semi synthetic.

Also, is it really that important if the oil is a III or IV. If it meets the specs called for by engineering, then anything better is more than needed.

All the best with it.

PK

I will disagree for discussion purposes. You say that Rottela T6 meets the requirements of the owners manual. I say it fails to meet the requirement of being a motorcycle oil, it is a heavy equipment oil. In fact more a diesel engine oil.

People point to the JASO MA rating in the description notes as proof it is good for motorcycle wet clutch use. Since BRP does not specify a JASO requirement, is a MA rating good enough? Would they specify a minimum rating of MA2?

 

[billybovine]

Automatic or rpm based clutches truly can have concerns. Sadly they are somewhat of a moving target. So much of engagement depends on the rider and how their style twists the throttle. The key is obtaining lockup of the clutch. I have never ridden the earlier Spyder, but have worked with many auto clutches. The balance between smooth engagement, lockup, controlling heat, and also the rpm of engagement create variables for not only the design team but also the end user. There seem to be many discussion on here about how the earlier clutch needed higher rpm to lockup.

It is possible that maybe the Rotella t6 is very good at controlling these parameters that it could have used either a lower rpm to lockup or more likely a greater clamp force to hold the plates. Not saying this specifically happened, but it could be also that the riders style created a worn or glazed clutch, the t6 was unable to grab the clutch plates and more slippage occurred.

It would be a great comparison to see if the users of t6 in SM machines were experiencing slippage. That removes the majority of variables and is a good indicator for the clutch and t6 being able to run max hp to the wheel with no slippage.

All the best with it.

PK

In my experience the clutch slippage occurred well above the rated stall speed of 3200 =/-200. It stopped after changing Amsoil. I cannot speak to performance in an SM, I don't have one.

 

[Tango]

pk you explained it very well. Much better than I.... :thumbup: Having never seen a bottle of BRP oil. Does it have a JASO MA rating? :dontknow: Tom :trike:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

THE OIL ISSUE

In reply to Bluekinight911 asking about this post, I posted links so others could learn more. I am not sure if Rotella T6 is Type III and if so, what percent is synthetic. The post is accurate though, however a bit tough to follow. To be labeled synthetic oil, it should be 30% or more synthetic. Semi Synthetic will range from 10>30% synthetic.

A concern is the TBN and as explained in the link, higher is better, but also consider that per the link, many oils start new at 6>9. TBN 3 is referenced as a change the oil level.

I do agree 5w40 is a wide range. Myself I would prefer closer ranges based on ambient temps. The thin rating will help during start up, after that the 40 would be my preference.

My take on much of this is that very seldom does the discussion isolate two things. We run oil to lubricate the engine and keep it clean. The oil will become contaminated over time. I doubt our engine has too much effect on shearing the oil and honestly these three cylinder machines do not seem to heavily worked. What is a concern is the gearbox. The gears will pull the oil apart. The engine makes oil dirty from blow by and combustion precess. The gears shred to oil with contamination from the clutch. While no doubt ferrous particles come off the gears, hopefully these are held by the magnetic drain plug.

Considering the 1330 Spyder holds more oil than a small 4 cylinder car, is smaller in displacement of most cars, but does have a gearbox shared with it, the amount of oil held vs the abuse it sees leans towards the machine carries a lot of oil and the oil performance will taper off slowly.

In the engine alone, the oil may very well go over 10k. As a shared design, it may be best to not grab every published mile per the owners manual and spend a bit more for more frequent oil changes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Base_Number

There are many good oils available that are moto rated. Probably all are going to work well and give a long life to the machine.

PK

:yes::yes::yes:....Thanks again for your time with this topic and answering questions, especially mine :roflblack:.......I am pretty sure I understand at least 95 % of what you are saying and I agree with your statements and logic 110 % .......:clap::clap::clap:......................Mikeguyver :2excited: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[billybovine]

Ahh, comedy...The BRP Synthetic Blend that comes in the "change your oil kit" says a lot about how it is for the BRP products, and being specially designed for BR stuff. Honestly it says nothing to indicate a viscosity, a rating, or any technical info in either English or French.

PK

That's correct and the fact is they don't have to. Before 2009 they did. They were just just putting different label on someone elses product. The API certification follows the formula not the oil brand. When they dropped their previous supplier in 2009 and went with their own formula they did not spend the money to get a API certification. So they don't put any references to API standards or tests on the bottle. Why should they? They are not marketing to use in other branded products.