Bearing Pieces in oil

[PMK]

243 Loctite should be the grade for use in oil. Ensure the threads are clean before using. I typically clean them with CRC Halogenated (Red Can) brake cleaner.

Where is the application of 648? I just pulled it up and it is Green cylindrical retaining compound. This one could be important if they are making a clearance 0/0 fit after torquing. Possibly a gear on a shaft or to prevent a bearing from spinning in the cases. Per Loctite it is a higher temp rated.

As Drew mentioned, Yamabond and 3 Bond work well to seal case seams if the BRP stuff is not available.

Regarding moly lubes, not sure where the application is. It may be a break in lube for initial running in.

All the best with it.

PK

 

[KX5062]

I too agree 3 bond and Yamabond are good stuff, either or.

On the water pump. Sockets, washers and threaded rod useally do the the trick, but I can't say for sure in this case. The Aprilia motors, which these are, were famous for weepy water pumps, so it's a good thing to R&R it.

How'd all those bearings in the cases look? Those sometimes get overlooked and forgotten about.

 

[Caito]

243 Loctite should be the grade for use in oil. Ensure the threads are clean before using. I typically clean them with CRC Halogenated (Red Can) brake cleaner.

Where is the application of 648? I just pulled it up and it is Green cylindrical retaining compound. This one could be important if they are making a clearance 0/0 fit after torquing. Possibly a gear on a shaft or to prevent a bearing from spinning in the cases. Per Loctite it is a higher temp rated.

As Drew mentioned, Yamabond and 3 Bond work well to seal case seams if the BRP stuff is not available.

Regarding moly lubes, not sure where the application is. It may be a break in lube for initial running in.

All the best with it.

PK

They are using it on the flywheel area. I am thinking of using Loctite 271 Red high strength or Permatex high temp red instead of Loctite 648. Just can't find it anywhere near me.

Thanks
Permatex® High Temperature Threadlocker RED

 

[Caito]

I too agree 3 bond and Yamabond are good stuff, either or.

On the water pump. Sockets, washers and threaded rod useally do the the trick, but I can't say for sure in this case. The Aprilia motors, which these are, were famous for weepy water pumps, so it's a good thing to R&R it.

How'd all those bearings in the cases look? Those sometimes get overlooked and forgotten about.

All the bearings looks A1. Smooth as silk. I also check all of the needle bearings in the gear box and they are all as good as new. I am going to look for 3 bond or yamabond tommorow and I am almost done gathering what I needed. Thanks:thumbup:

 

[finless]

They are using it on the flywheel area. I am thinking of using Loctite 271 Red high strength or Permatex high temp red instead of Loctite 648. Just can't find it anywhere near me.

Thanks
Permatex® High Temperature Threadlocker RED

I would not substitute 648 for red. Green Loctite is a wicking style Loctite made for retaining bearings in cases or on shafts. Red won’t do that and was not designed to do that. There is a reason for green vs red.

Bob

 

[Caito]

I would not substitute 648 for red. Green Loctite is a wicking style Loctite made for retaining bearings in cases or on shafts. Red won’t do that and was not designed to do that. There is a reason for green vs red.

Bob

In these case they are using it in the Magneto/flywheel area. Its being apply on Flywheel threads and the Socket Head Screw M16x30 and bolted onto the crankshaft. I think I will be pretty safe using red because it is thread on the shaft. However I think I seen Loctite 620 which is similar to 648. I think I will listen to you advice and go with that. Thanks

 

[Caito]

Just waiting for parts and misc.

Purchased my Loctite at you friendly local Nappa Store. Loctite 243 and Loctite 620. I ordered the Dow Corning 111 5.3 oz through ebay for $23.95 shipping included instead of around $60 or more with shipping on BRP sites. I will be buying 3 bond or Yamabond tomorrow depends on which one I come across first. After talking to a local shop mechanic where I purchased my ATV. He recommended regular assembly lube for around $10.00 compared to Petamo grease GHY 133n @BRP with shipping be close to $100 CDN. (He just rebuilt his own motor on his ATV with the same stuff and done lots of motors before that.) I guess if it is good for his ride, it will be good for my Spyder.

So right now just waiting. Any tips & tricks you like to share please send it this way. Thanks

 

[DrewNJ]

Your doing good and we'll on your way!

 

[DrewNJ]

3 Bond 1211 should be readily available at just about any cycle or boat shop.
Yamabond will be at any yami dealer.

 

[Caito]

Drei Bond Sealing Compound

Okay .. I carefully going through the service manual and tried my best to find where BRP used the Drei Bond Sealing Compound The only place that I have to use it is where the wire coming out of the Magneto cover and is on top. It looks more like they are trying to keep the rain water going inside the cover then anything else. I have some high temp silicon sealant left from my last job. I think I might just try that and see how it works out. Any Objection to my plan. :doorag::thumbup:

 

[Caito]

If not properly sealed the magneto wires will bleed engine oil.
I couldn't believe it, but the magneto is bathed in an oil mist.

So whatever you use to seal the wires, make sure it is hot oil proof.

K, I got some High Temp silicon liquid gasket. I am going to try them first. Thanks

No news today.. Just waiting for parts. :doorag:

 

[Caito]

replaced water pump seal and shaft.

K.. it been a week or so. All my parts finally arrived today. It took me 3 days to get anything from the U.S. but took over a week for me get parts from a province next to me and I had to pay more. I guess free trade does work.

I replaced the water pump seal, shaft and oil seal behind the mechanical seal(I think that's what they call them). It took me most of a day and some choiced words in between. Based on the service manual. I am supposed to be able to use a punch to punch the seals and the shaft from the 2 access holes inside the case. Well guess again. It took me a good part of a day to get it done. I had to use a small cutting tools to cut the sealing lips on the mechanical seal then use a very small flat head screw driver to lift the lips up. I continue this process until I get enough of a grip to set a vice grip on it. After that is just how strong your will and your friend are . Took two of us together to yank it out but at last it was done. Attach some pics of what is left of it.. I wished I had took more pictures of how I took it out just in case some of you might had to do the same but I wasn't really thinking that far ahead at that point.:doorag:

The process of putting my bike back together has begin.. I am taking my time and if anyone know of any tips and tricks or I must know please send it this way. I can use all the help I can get. :thumbup:

 

[bruiser]

I know this is late but, 648 is used on bearings to hold them in the case/housing. We used it extensively on shaft bearings in our brush drive gear boxes. If yo don't use some type of "locking bond" there is a very good chance the bearing outer race will spin in the housing. Not a good scenario. It's also used on most "press fit" items like gears and seals. Permatex sleeve retainer is the same stuff. If you can find it, STP oil treatment works as a great assembly lube. I used it for years rebuilding engines. Never had a problem.

 

[JerryB]

Hi bruiser,

Re: STP oil treatment works as a great assembly lube. I used it for years rebuilding engines. Never had a problem.

+1 on that. Though, it has been years since I've rebuilt an engine.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[jtoro1]

I am watching your post closely for the future, you are doing pretty good I will be saving the post so when it is my turn on my spyder good luck

 

[Caito]

I know this is late but, 648 is used on bearings to hold them in the case/housing. We used it extensively on shaft bearings in our brush drive gear boxes. If yo don't use some type of "locking bond" there is a very good chance the bearing outer race will spin in the housing. Not a good scenario. It's also used on most "press fit" items like gears and seals. Permatex sleeve retainer is the same stuff. If you can find it, STP oil treatment works as a great assembly lube. I used it for years rebuilding engines. Never had a problem.

Thanks. STP oil treatment perfect to know. I have some of that laying around. I now know what 648 is for after your explanation, the flywheel are press fit to the crankshaft and is hold in by a washer and a bolt at the end of the crank on the magneto side. The 648 must be used to help bond it to the crank .. Thanks

Life is great.. learning something new everyday. :thumbup:

 

[Caito]

Okay, I have the gear box back in and the crank and the balance shaft back in. The gasket cut and in place and guess what?? My torque wrench was a little too hefty. I wasn't lying when I said I am not much of a mechanics. My torque wrench is from 30 to 250 foot pound. I needed one for 97 in pound and 18 foot pound for some of the nuts and bolt. Local industrial place had one for $252 and tax, OUCH!!! I ended up buying two one from 10 foot pound to 150 foot pound $49.00 and another for from Nappa from 0 in pound to 200 in pound on sale for $99.00. If you see a great deal for the smaller torque wrench wouldn't hurt to pick one up for future use.

I will attempt to install most of the gears(drive gear, cam gears, water pump gear, etc) tomorrow morning before I had to go to work. If I have enough time maybe one or both of the cylinders.

It seems the user manual had loctite 243 just about every where but none were use on the bolts that hold the crank case together ( on the outside). Should I put a little bit of blue loctite on them. I don't think it will hurt anything.. anyone know why they didn't use loctite ?? or just really not necessary. Thanks..

 

[Caito]

Okay half my engine is now back together. Just need my friend to show up and help with torquing everything down before I proceed with the front cylinder. The rear cylinder had to be fully assemble before any work can be done on the front cylinder.

Just a few points I notice while I was putting the crankcase together for novice like me.

*Do not hoover anything over your engine case that might felt off.
*If you think you read your service manual enough time.. read it again.
*If you think you took enough pictures ... take more for reference
*Do not rush into the next stage until you are 110% sure you done what the service manual ask you to do.
*Everything is machine fit and if it doesn't go in.. stop and look
*If you felt overwhelmed just stop and take a break. One bolt at a time and is not a race.
*a little bit of oil will kept your washer from falling off and make the job of line things up a lot easier.
*couple of tools is a must have for this job.. the magneto removal tool and the crank locking bolt.
*To found TDC the crank locking bolt will fit into a bolt hole on the mag inside the crank case when it is on TDC and it stop the crank from moving. If it move you are not on TDC. I was off by one tooth without using the locking bolt. My second try with the locking bolt and I was dead on.
*I am pretty sure there is one hole on the mag for the rear cylinder's TDC and another one for the front cylinder. (I will know for sure once I start working on the front cylinder.
*To get your piston back on, putting the pin and clip back. It is a major pain and tedious work. After a number of tries and 30 min later.. here is what I came up with and make it a breeze to put in. I use a needle nose pliers to hold one end of the clip in position then I use another pliers to hold the other end and put it in the groove. It works great.
*If you are rich get someone else to do it for you.

Going to my real work now and hopefully have time to finish this job tomorrow.

Attach is the pliers I used to put the clip back into the piston.

PS. A small setback the piston ring broke while trying to put the cylinder back. It will be another 3 days wait for parts and another $100 later..:shocked:

 

[Caito]

Here is the pictures

 

[bruiser]

Did you use a ring compressor?