Backfiring thru the throttle body

[Tom in NM]

Niffty!!!!!!!!

Pilo, GREAT pictures! You keep your Spyder in mint condition and it looks great in the Venezuelan terrain - but why are you always looking so serious?

Thanks for posting the pics - I will probably never get there in person, but it looks incredible.

Tom

 

[SpyderWolf]

Those are some very nice pictures, and it looks like a great place to ryde.

One easy, and inexpensive, fix, would be to put your air box back on and see what happens. Personally, I don't think that is worth the effort though.

I did see the Two Brothers now has the Juice Box Pro available for the Spyder though. This one will let you store various maps so you can change it on the fly for the style of ryding you are about to do. I may have to take a chance on that one. See, my Spyder also runs lean as I have the Hindle exhaust and am running the K&N filter in the air box. You took it a step further and no longer have the air box, so you are sucking in a heck of a lot more air than I am, meaning you should be running even leaner.

 

[TexasTripod]

Venezuela Pics

I had the good fortune to visit The area of Puerto La Cruz Venezuela a few years ago and fell in love with the country and the staggering number of beautiful women (mostly the women)! This was just after the devastating floods and rock slides that hit near Caracas (I think) . I will never forget when returning to Caracas from Puerto La Cruz having to detour through the jungle on a path cut by a bulldozer to get back to the main highway. I hope someday to be able to go back and see more of the country.

 

[Firefly]

Nope, I doesn't surge or varies RPM's. I did the canisterectomy a while back, and plugged the intake of the servo / purge valve.

Yes, it has always backfired thru the exhaust system (Hindle installed) in the conditions you mention. I always thought it was caused by some leaks in the system joints, but never related it to the fuel mix.

Adding the juice box is really less invasive than the other mods you have already done (kewlmetal intake, hindle, canisterectomy).

When I did my Evoluzione inktake with Hindle I had backfiring too. Increasing the fuel pressure helped a lot (I also installed their fuel pressure mod).

Now I've installed a juice box, lowered the fuel pressure and am adjusting the juice box in hopes that will essentially work as well as the higher fuel pressure. The downside to the increased fuel pressure was really poor MPG. The juice box should only 'add' the extra fuel while I'm on the throttle if I adjust things right....at least that's what I'm hoping for.....

So I really think you're going to have to add a Juice Box to help your problem.....

 

[Pilo]

Just for the record...

Adding the juice box is really less invasive than the other mods you have already done (kewlmetal intake, hindle, canisterectomy).

When I did my Evoluzione inktake with Hindle I had backfiring too. Increasing the fuel pressure helped a lot (I also installed their fuel pressure mod).

Now I've installed a juice box, lowered the fuel pressure and am adjusting the juice box in hopes that will essentially work as well as the higher fuel pressure. The downside to the increased fuel pressure was really poor MPG. The juice box should only 'add' the extra fuel while I'm on the throttle if I adjust things right....at least that's what I'm hoping for.....

So I really think you're going to have to add a Juice Box to help your problem.....

I had the Hindle installed by the USA dealer because I liked the looks and the sound. Never had it associated with additional performance.

Did the canisterectomy to get rid of the fuel fumes. That included plugging the servo valve. Again, this other mod was not associated with performance.

And did the air filter kit mod to get rid of the oil mist and the blockaded access to the front spark plug and upper engine areas. Not associated with performance.

I am really not interested in adding more power / performance to the SE5, I just want to get rid of the "burp"...

When you say "When I did my Evoluzione inktake with Hindle I had backfiring too"..., do you mean backfiring at the exhaust system or burping at the intake manifold...?

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Pilo]

I had the good fortune to visit The area of Puerto La Cruz Venezuela a few years ago and fell in love with the country and the staggering number of beautiful women (mostly the women)! This was just after the devastating floods and rock slides that hit near Caracas (I think) . I will never forget when returning to Caracas from Puerto La Cruz having to detour through the jungle on a path cut by a bulldozer to get back to the main highway. I hope someday to be able to go back and see more of the country.

Tripod:
I was living and working very close to Puerto La Cruz in 1999, when the floods near Caracas occurred.
We were building the very first heavy-oil upgrader / refinery called PetroZuata.
These are some old pics from that area.
Enjoy...

 

[Firefly]

I had the Hindle installed by the USA dealer because I liked the looks and the sound. Never had it associated with additional performance.

Did the canisterectomy to get rid of the fuel fumes. That included plugging the servo valve. Again, this other mod was not associated with performance.

And did the air filter kit mod to get rid of the oil mist and the blockaded access to the front spark plug and upper engine areas. Not associated with performance.

I am really not interested in adding more power / performance to the SE5, I just want to get rid of the "burp"...

When you say "When I did my Evoluzione inktake with Hindle I had backfiring too"..., do you mean backfiring at the exhaust system or burping at the intake manifold...?

Saludos, Pilo

I really think they are one in the same 'intake burp vs. backfire'. It's just much more pronounced with a more open intake like you and I have. You generally hear the intake more than the Hindle--- at least with the Evoluzione air intake system.

Either way you slice it, whether you want 'performance' or not--- with your add-ons you got some. The hindle adds around 5 hp and the intake maybe another few. As mentioned above, you could but the original airbox back in and see if the 'popping' goes away. You could do a catch can setup and keep the original air box to take care of the oil mist... or keep the kewlmetal intake and add a juicebox to get rid of the 'popping'.

Depending on how many miles you have on your Spyder, you might also want to check the Y pipe gasket and make sure you don't have a leak.

 

[Pilo]

That is the technical info...

Pilo- when you changed just the exhaust at first, the ECU had the ability to compensate, and add a little fuel. With a new air intake, the restrictive inlet horns are gone, and the engine has the ability to flow more air than the ECU can add fuel for. The mixture becomes too lean. A lean mixture burns hotter than a richer mixture, and can create 'hot spots', on carbon deposits or valve edges. When a fresh mixture hits the hot spots on the intake stroke, it can detonate, causing the backfiring through the throttle bodies. Adding more fuel with an aftermarket device will richen the fuel mixture, and cool the cylinder temps down, eliminating the intake backfiring.....

Bones:

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I was precisely looking for that kind of info.

As I tried to say before, it has nothing to do with the backfiring at the exhaust, usually caused by a leak at the system joints, thus allowing fresh air to be sucked into the hot gases going out, causing a small explosion.

Saludos, Pilo

 

[Yazz]

Great thread. Lots of good information and beautiful pics.

Pilo- when you changed just the exhaust at first, the ECU had the ability to compensate, and add a little fuel. With a new air intake, the restrictive inlet horns are gone, and the engine has the ability to flow more air than the ECU can add fuel for. The mixture becomes too lean. A lean mixture burns hotter than a richer mixture, and can create 'hot spots', on carbon deposits or valve edges. When a fresh mixture hits the hot spots on the intake stroke, it can detonate, causing the backfiring through the throttle bodies. Adding more fuel with an aftermarket device will richen the fuel mixture, and cool the cylinder temps down, eliminating the intake backfiring.....

Is this called predetonation?

 

[Tom in NM]

Yeah . . . .

Great thread. Lots of good information and beautiful pics.

Is this called predetonation?

Pre-ignition, actually......

. . . . PREDETONATION is what Bones does when he sees that FireFly has posted . . . . . well, anything . . . . to any of his threads.

Tom

 

[Tom in NM]

Wondering . . . .

Bones, nice description of pre-ignition.

Is there anyway for Pilo to enrich the fuel mix without doing a juice-box?

I am guessing that changing to a different grade of gas would not have much effect, but could he put some shields or baffles on the air filter to restrict the flow and glut of air? The key word is restrict to a degree that would get his air/fuel mix back into the normal operating fuel/air maps the Spyder can deal with?

If he is experiencing pre-ignition ( and that sounds probable ) I can see how a juice box would help him control that. But, personally, I just hate adding that level of technology to solve the problem - if possible, I try and keep things simple - which gives me a very slim chance of understanding it and making it work.

Tom

 

[Firefly]

Bones, nice description of pre-ignition.

Is there anyway for Pilo to enrich the fuel mix without doing a juice-box?

I am guessing that changing to a different grade of gas would not have much effect, but could he put some shields or baffles on the air filter to restrict the flow and glut of air? The key word is restrict to a degree that would get his air/fuel mix back into the normal operating fuel/air maps the Spyder can deal with?

If he is experiencing pre-ignition ( and that sounds probable ) I can see how a juice box would help him control that. But, personally, I just hate adding that level of technology to solve the problem - if possible, I try and keep things simple - which gives me a very slim chance of understanding it and making it work.

Tom

Could do the evoluzione fuel pressure mod---- but that's more invasive than the juice box. I suppose you could block the air around the kewlmetal filter--- but then what's the point of having the kewlmetal filter?

Could go back to stock airbox and put a catch-can in for the oil.

http://www.evoluzione.net/evo-cycle-can-am.htm

Considering the juice box is plug and play and 100% reversible (probably 1/2 hour to uninstall it)--- that would be what I would do---- and did.

 

[Yazz]

Pre-ignition, actually......

There I go learning something new again...

 

[krb1945]

A sure way to test for a too lean...

mixture. You've added a high performance air filter and muffler. As a test for a too lean mixture you can re-install your stock exhaust and see if the problem goes away. If it goes away you'll know that you either need to install a Juice Box or eliminate either the high performance muffler or the high performance air intake. /Ken

 

[Tom in NM]

Could do the evoluzione fuel pressure mod---- but that's more invasive than the juice box. I suppose you could block the air around the kewlmetal filter--- but then what's the point of having the kewlmetal filter?

Could go back to stock airbox and put a catch-can in for the oil.

http://www.evoluzione.net/evo-cycle-can-am.htm

Considering the juice box is plug and play and 100% reversible (probably 1/2 hour to uninstall it)--- that would be what I would do---- and did.

Yup, I know you ( and others ) have done the juice box, for a variety of reasons - and you sound happy about it. But go back and look at "why Pilo did the upgrade to the kewlmetal filter" in post #26 ----> "And did the air filter kit mod to get rid of the oil mist and the blockaded access to the front spark plug and upper engine areas. Not associated with performance."

Those are the very reasons I would consider doing it, plus, I would "guess" that not having the stock air box would improve airflow/cooling around the engine.

Tom

 

[Firefly]

Yup, I know you ( and others ) have done the juice box, for a variety of reasons - and you sound happy about it. But go back and look at "why Pilo did the upgrade to the kewlmetal filter" in post #26 ----> "And did the air filter kit mod to get rid of the oil mist and the blockaded access to the front spark plug and upper engine areas. Not associated with performance."

Those are the very reasons I would consider doing it, plus, I would "guess" that not having the stock air box would improve airflow/cooling around the engine.

Tom

Yup-- understand---- but since he's already spent $500 on the pipe and $280 on the intake--- I think he's just going to have to spend another $200 and get a juice box.... or just live with the popping and avoid quick de-throttling....

 

[NancysToy]

One of the unfortunate things that sometimes happens when we add aftermarket accesories, just for the sounds (muffler) or the looks (air cleaner, is that the free-flowing performance aspects of such mods...and their unintended and additive consequences, sometimes blind side us. What looks easy becomes hard, and requires additional tuning or even additional modifications. It sort of comes under the heading of "Be careful what you wish for."

 

[Tom in NM]

One of the unfortunate things that sometimes happens when we add aftermarket accesories, just for the sounds (muffler) or the looks (air cleaner, is that the free-flowing performance aspects of such mods...and their unintended and additive consequences, sometimes blind side us. What looks easy becomes hard, and requires additional tuning or even additional modifications. It sort of comes under the heading of "Be careful what you wish for."

:agree: I could not agree more - which is why I have left mine stock for now. There may come a time when I want to tinker with it, but for now, I would much rather ride it.

Only when it comes to streamlining maintenance or making something operate more elegantly, do I get tempted. I've been down that path before (too many times), where I tweak one thing and $3,000 plus countless hours later, it still is not "right". Too many technical "whack-a-mole"s on a Spyder for my wallet.

Tom

 

[boborgera]

:agree:

One of the unfortunate things that sometimes happens when we add aftermarket accesories, just for the sounds (muffler) or the looks (air cleaner, is that the free-flowing performance aspects of such mods...and their unintended and additive consequences, sometimes blind side us. What looks easy becomes hard, and requires additional tuning or even additional modifications. It sort of comes under the heading of "Be careful what you wish for."

:agree:It's not like the old days when you could hack around a carburetor and exhaust and not have a computer fight you.

 

[NancysToy]

:agree: I could not agree more - which is why I have left mine stock for now. There may come a time when I want to tinker with it, but for now, I would much rather ride it.

Only when it comes to streamlining maintenance or making something operate more elegantly, do I get tempted. I've been down that path before (too many times), where I tweak one thing and $3,000 plus countless hours later, it still is not "right". Too many technical "whack-a-moles on a Spyder for my wallet.

Tom

Gotta add that one to my list of technical terms! :thumbup: