2011 Rear Wheel Static Balance - do it with hub & sprocket fitted, or without?

[Dochatley]

I did a search trying to find the answer to what may be a stupid question but I’m helping a friend replace the tires on his new to him 2011 Spyder RT. When balancing the rear wheel do you do it with the hub and sprocket on the wheel ready to mount or just the wheel/tire alone. Not sure what kind of difference it would make but I wanted to ask those of you with more knowledge on the subject than I have. Going to do static balancing.
Thanks

 

[Peter Aawen]

If your tire is a quality tire that has been fitted to the rim correctly with any yellow &/or red dots aligned as they should be, then as long as you've got both bearings in place & in good nick, it's really unlikely to make too much difference to your static balancing; but in my experience, while they don't mess with the balance much at all in the long run, but having all the ancillary bits fitted can make it a fair bit more difficult to actually DO the balancing with anything extra hanging off the side & getting in the way! So when/if I balance the rear wheel assembly, I do it without those fitted and have never had any issues.

Of course, YMMV, and if you find it easy enough to do with all that extra gear in place, it's not unreasonable to do it that way, so it's really your choice to do whatever you find works for you! hyea:

Ps: If/when you take the sprocket off, mark both it and the rim so that you KNOW you put it back on in exactly the same orientation - it's a real bummer getting it all back together only to discover that now you can't reach the valve, no matter how hard you try, cos you re-installed the sprocket right in front if it! :banghead:

And it also pays to mark the little rubber cush-drive pads & the rim so that they go back in the same places & same orientation - not such a biggie, but it'll make it easier to identify any misalignment &/or wear in your sprocket if that ever becomes an issue! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[flash2002]

Install Dyna-Beads then you're sure that it's balanced.

 

[Dochatley]

Install Dyna-Beads then you're sure that it's balanced.

I have thought of that but it’s his bike and he wants weights.

 

[Bfromla]

:congrats: To your friend. :dontknow: They gonna join us or are you gonna play middle man:dontknow:opcorn:opcorn:not a bad thing, just not best either. :roflblack: (insert third wheel joke)

 

[Mikey]

I did a search trying to find the answer to what may be a stupid question but I’m helping a friend replace the tires on his new to him 2011 Spyder RT. When balancing the rear wheel do you do it with the hub and sprocket on the wheel ready to mount or just the wheel/tire alone. Not sure what kind of difference it would make but I wanted to ask those of you with more knowledge on the subject than I have. Going to do static balancing.
Thanks

Take the sprocket off, leave the rest if you can!

 

[djh3]

+1 on dyna beads (or similar) balance bead. My thoughts are if it is in the rotating mass it needs to be balanced as an assembly.

 

[DickB]

I take my wheels off to a dealer for mounting and balancing, They balance the rear as an assembly.

 

[FrogmanDave]

Most motorcycle shops want everything to stay in place. Most won't balance a front wheel if the brake discs have been removed. Same for the rear.

 

[DickB]

Most won't balance a front wheel if the brake discs have been removed.

The front discs are not attached to the wheels on my 2014 RSS. The Can-Am shop balanced the wheels only. Am I missing something?

 

[Peter Aawen]

The front discs are not attached to the wheels on my 2014 RSS. The Can-Am shop balanced the wheels only. Am I missing something?

Nope. Motorcycle wheels (& hubs) are somewhat different to Spyder wheels, which are effectively auto rims & tires mounted on a (fairly basic) auto front end! So like most similar auto front ends, your Spyder's discs are mounted on the hub and stub axle, and so generally remain on the Spyder when the wheel is removed, rather than being an integral part of the wheel/rim assembly, as is often if not usually, the case with motorcycle wheels! They're different animals, and really shouldn't be compared!

And since the Spyder rear wheel is also very similar to most auto wheels, albeit with a smaller diameter axle shaft hole & bearings integrated into the rim itself, it too tends to be most often easiest to balance if all the 'add-on/bolt-on' bits are removed, and the gear used by most to do that on car wheels usually just isn't designed to do it with any of those parts in situ anyway! So you need to bear that in mind - unless you're doing a manual job of stripping & refitting the tire followed by a rudimentary &/or static balance, then since it's a car sized tire being fitted onto what is very much just a car rim, it too is most likely going to need all the easily damaged bits like discs & sprockets etc to be removed in order to do the job readily on the equipment that most places use to do this these days - and most of those people/places you might find & pay to strip & refit a tire on a Spyder Rim probably won't want to even risk damaging the 'extra bits' like sprockets and discs anyway; so even if YOU might be prepared to risk such damage to those easily removed but generally 'in the way' parts, you might not find too many competent & appropriately skilled tire fitters/balancers who are prepared to risk damaging those parts on their gear - gear that's just NOT designed to cater for those parts to remain in situ anyway!

But if you DO happen to find someone who is skilled and competent enough, as well as confident in their ability to use modern tire strip & refit equipment and modern balancing gear that can handle your Spyder rims, and they don't damage anything in the process of doing the strip, refit, and balance; then you should consider yourself extremely lucky and look after them, establish a good working relationship, and do whatever it takes to keep them happy and still prepared to look after your Spyder's wheels & tires! But do make sure that they REALLY DO know & are capable of doing any/all this WITHOUT damaging the tire & rim, &/or the sprocket & disc etc, or you might find yourself not riding for a while! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[Mikey]

The front discs are not attached to the wheels on my 2014 RSS. The Can-Am shop balanced the wheels only. Am I missing something?

No, you are not missing a thing, all front wheels don't have the rotor attached, they're placed over the studs on the spindle! The rear rotors are bolted onto the rim!

 

[Peteoz]

Most motorcycle shops want everything to stay in place. Most won't balance a front wheel if the brake discs have been removed. Same for the rear.

You must have a pretty unique custom setup on your front wheels, Dave. :roflblack:

Pete

 

[FrogmanDave]

You must have a pretty unique custom setup on your front wheels, Dave. :roflblack:

Pete

No I was just making a point that if there is something bolted to the wheel then it should remain there to get a proper balance. At least that is what most motorcycle shops require. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[DickB]

And since the Spyder rear wheel is also very similar to most auto wheels, albeit with a smaller diameter axle shaft hole & bearings integrated into the rim itself, it too tends to be most often easiest to balance if all the 'add-on/bolt-on' bits are removed, and the gear used by most to do that on car wheels usually just isn't designed to do it with any of those parts in situ anyway!

I checked with several local (car) tire shops, and all said that they could not balance the rear wheel. I had removed the "add-on" bits, thinking that would be necessary.

When I took the wheel to the closest Can Am dealer 2 hours away, they said they could not balance it with the "bits" removed. I had to make a return trip to reassemble everything.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I checked with several local (car) tire shops, and all said that they could not balance the rear wheel. I had removed the "add-on" bits, thinking that would be necessary.

When I took the wheel to the closest Can Am dealer 2 hours away, they said they could not balance it with the "bits" removed. I had to make a return trip to reassemble everything.

Well isn't that innnnterrresting?! :shocked: Sorry you had to do the extra trip, but can I ask, did the Can Am dealer say how they were going to balance it, and on what equipment?? :dontknow:

I'm pretty sure that I understand the reason why your local (car) tire shops said they couldn't balance your Spyder's rear wheel - while most auto wheel balancing equipment used these days in commercial/retail tire fitting places is actually capable of balancing a Spyder rear wheel, doing so generally requires the sourcing & acquisition of a few 'specialist' extra fittings for the equipment they use - fittings that see such little demand in their overall business that it's very rarely provided as standard attachments &/or even readily available, not even to places that do nothing BUT strip, fit & balance tires and wheels of all shapes and sizes all day every day! And even with those extra fittings, I don't believe that (apart from a few 'on-vehicle' balancing units) there are actually too many commercial balancing units available on the market atm that are capable of balancing a Spyder rear rim with any of the 'bolt-on/press-on' bits remaining in situ - the extra 'bolt-on/press-on' bits simply get in the way of securely mounting the wheel &/or properly/correctly operating the balancing equipment! :sour:

As far as the dealer is concerned, I do wonder if they were actually being entirely truthful with you, cos from what I've heard about dealers over your way, and certainly here in Oz, very few Can Am dealers even do the tire strip, refit, & balancing themselves anyway... Just as is the case with wheel alignments, they usually don't do enough tire & wheel replacement business to justify fitting out their workshops with the necessary equipment and sourcing/acquiring the specialist extra fittings, let alone employing & training the techs to do what little of that sort of work comes their way; so they generally just sub-contract all that out to the nearest/cheapest auto tire shop...

So if you can find out, I'd be very interested to know if the dealer actually did balance your rear wheel themselves, rather than sending it out to get it done; and either way/regardless of who did it, if they actually did balance it, what equipment did they do it with/on?? :dontknow:

 

[Mikey]

Peter, if they were a bike shop, wouldn't they be fitted with the correct balancer and fittings to load a bike tire, spindle wise and everything else? The guy I go to has the machine and balancer out of another bike shop that went out of business, it had the small spindle shaft to receive the small hole of the back rim just fine, brake rotor included. :dontknow:

 

[DickB]

can I ask, did the Can Am dealer say how they were going to balance it, and on what equipment??

They use an adapter on their balance machine. They don't allow customers in the service area so I did not get a look at it. The dealer is a large one in Fort Myers, with many Spyders and Rykers (and Slingshots) on their showroom floor for me to ogle while I wait. I have found their technicians to be very knowledgeable on Can-Ams, unlike an east coast dealer I visited previously. They mount and balance tires on Saturdays, first come first served. I bring wheels and tires only, and I've never waited more than two hours - they're not sending them off site. They only stock OEM Kendas, so I brought Kenda Kanines with me. $35.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, if they were a bike shop, wouldn't they be fitted with the correct balancer and fittings to load a bike tire, spindle wise and everything else? The guy I go to has the machine and balancer out of another bike shop that went out of business, it had the small spindle shaft to receive the small hole of the back rim just fine, brake rotor included. :dontknow:

Most 'bike shops' don't have the gear to cater for Spyder rims & tires (and simply don't have the call for it to be too concerned about investing in it) as Spyder (car) rims tires are generally bigger & heavier and much more 'car like' than motorcycle rims. And very few 'car shops' have those extra fittings/adaptors for such low-volume work as Spyder rims either, plus that gear often isn't easy &/or cheap to source anyway; and even if they do have it, they often don't want to risk damaging all the bolt-on/press-on bits anyway! :sour: So as I mentioned before, if you DO happen to find a tire shop (for either bike or car wheels) that does have that extra gear & people skilled & competent in its use, it'd probably be a smart move on your behalf to foster the relationship & maybe even help them get & keep enough on-going Spyder business to keep their techs trained & using it! :lecturef_smilie: Or they might just stop doing that... or maybe they might even go out of business & sell off all that specialist gear! :shocked: :banghead:

They use an adapter on their balance machine. They don't allow customers in the service area so I did not get a look at it. The dealer is a large one in Fort Myers, with many Spyders and Rykers (and Slingshots) on their showroom floor for me to ogle while I wait. I have found their technicians to be very knowledgeable on Can-Ams, unlike an east coast dealer I visited previously. They mount and balance tires on Saturdays, first come first served. I bring wheels and tires only, and I've never waited more than two hours - they're not sending them off site. They only stock OEM Kendas, so I brought Kenda Kanines with me. $35.

Thanks Dick - as you've already found, your Fort Meyers dealer seems to be one of the exceptions... See my comment above! hyea:

Mind you, I still do wonder if they actually leave all that extra gear bolted/pressed on when they do the work? If they don't, but still insist that you bring the wheel in with it all fitted up, they wouldn't be the first to insist on that so that they do all the dismantling & re-assembling work themselves - possibly for the perfectly valid reason that they don't want to be held accountable for someone else messing things up after they've done their bit properly... :sour: or maybe at least partially because the job might otherwise seem too quick'n easy for what they want to charge for it?! :shocked: :dontknow:

 

[DickB]

Mind you, I still do wonder if they actually leave all that extra gear bolted/pressed on when they do the work?

No way they would do all that disassembly/reassembly for $35.