Is your spyder shaking, start with the belt tensioner. Now on to Tires!

[bayoumanPIBE]

OK..positive note. I raised the belt tensioner tying it to the frame, and the bike rode a lot smoother...still shaking some...but, it's a ton closer. I've also been tweaking the front shocks (Kings), and it seems to have helped as well. I did not want to come back to the house...I was having the best tine riding...smoothest she's ever been! LOL

BUT, I now have that infamous harmonic vibrations under me with the belt tensioner not resting on the belt.

So, the belt tensioner is to help with harmonics, but using the tensioner (even at factory belt lbs), shakes the bike like a donkey with dt's.

The belt is at 180lbs.

I'm going to have the rear tire checked for balance as soon as I can...so much has been done to the poor thing, I can't remember if anyone checked the rear...

So, until then, I'm not sure where to go if the rear is fine...thoughts?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

@IdahoMtnSpyder - I have not personally adjusted the belt tension yet...bought 2 new 36mm 12pt wrenches to help and there seems to be too much play as if I will strip the axle ends. I'm not sure if this is normal for Spyders. I don't have any other large wrenches to try diff sizes. I'll need to ryde her up to home depot or the like to see if I can find something which fits better.

I have never seen or heard of a 12 point WRENCH !!!! .... and the axle Nuts are 36mm - period...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have never seen or heard of a 12 point WRENCH !!!! .... and the axle Nuts are 36mm - period...... Mike :thumbup:

I always considered box end wrenches to be wrenches! And they do come that big! And most are 12 point. Do we just have different definitions about what constitutes "wrench"?

Actually, I think what happened is you "wrenched" your brain thinking about what defines "wrench"! :roflblack: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrench

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I always considered box end wrenches to be wrenches! And they do come that big! And most are 12 point. Do we just have different definitions about what constitutes "wrench"?

Actually, I think what happened is you "wrenched" your brain thinking about what defines "wrench"! :roflblack: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wrench

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: Yep you got me on this one IMS ..... Earlier today I was using some " wrenches " and they were double ended open wrenches .... It su*ks getting old :banghead:........ Mike :thumbup:

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

Ya'll help make this community even more fun...needed that...

Update...so, I exaggerated some on the 'much less shaking now'...must've been worn out last night testing this thing...

Today's tests after work...belt tensioner is still tied up off the belt. Rides better, but still shaking way beyond what's close to normal highway shaking on various pavements...variation of speeds...still about 60mph is when it starts, gets worse up until about 83mph and then friggin' thing begins to smooth out more at 85.

1. jacked up the bike and manipulated the wheels. They do not move in and out, but there is a rubbing sound when the wheels free spin and they both slow down as if the brakes are on slightly. Does the parking brake do this...? Not sure if that has to do with the shaking, but it's something I've not heard before on my '14 ST-S. I'm not sure if I've paid attn to these wheels for such sounds. This is noticeable. Is this normal? Listen to the video.

Turn up your volume...doesn't have to be loud to notice it. https://youtu.be/f6rioexm-SE

2. I tweaked the shocks several times and tested it for a while, can tell a difference within the middle range of clicks stiffening.

3. I took off my large Madstad windshield because it flops in the wind more than I like...worth a shot...it helped some...was shocked. But, the shaking of the bike is bad enough possibly it manipulated the aero on the front end making it flop more...

4. But, both of 2 & 3 together seemed to help more...but, still too much shaking.

5. I took off the zip ties from around the belt tensioner and put it on the belt. It made it the shaking much worse...so, I tied it back up. Now, I'm back to 2 & 3...

I just can't her dialed in...going to get the rear tire balanced asap and adjust the belt from 140 to whatever brp recommends (have to look it up). Reminder...currently belt is at 180lbs.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ya'll help make this community even more fun...needed that...

Update...so, I exaggerated some on the 'much less shaking now'...must've been worn out last night testing this thing...

Today's tests after work...belt tensioner is still tied up off the belt. Rides better, but still shaking way beyond what's close to normal highway shaking on various pavements...variation of speeds...still about 60mph is when it starts, gets worse up until about 83mph and then friggin' thing begins to smooth out more at 85.

1. jacked up the bike and manipulated the wheels. They do not move in and out, but there is a rubbing sound when the wheels free spin and they both slow down as if the brakes are on slightly. Does the parking brake do this...? Not sure if that has to do with the shaking, but it's something I've not heard before on my '14 ST-S. I'm not sure if I've paid attn to these wheels for such sounds. This is noticeable. Is this normal? Listen to the video.

Turn up your volume...doesn't have to be loud to notice it. https://youtu.be/f6rioexm-SE

2. I tweaked the shocks several times and tested it for a while, can tell a difference within the middle range of clicks stiffening.

3. I took off my large Madstad windshield because it flops in the wind more than I like...worth a shot...it helped some...was shocked. But, the shaking of the bike is bad enough possibly it manipulated the aero on the front end making it flop more...

4. But, both of 2 & 3 together seemed to help more...but, still too much shaking.

5. I took off the zip ties from around the belt tensioner and put it on the belt. It made it the shaking much worse...so, I tied it back up. Now, I'm back to 2 & 3...

I just can't her dialed in...going to get the rear tire balanced asap and adjust the belt from 140 to whatever brp recommends (have to look it up). Reminder...currently belt is at 180lbs.

" Then it smooths out " ...... I can't think of a way that this is possible .... JMHO .... I wish all the best on this, but you have the weirdest Spyder I have ever heard about .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

You replaced the front tires, but not the rear. Right? Have you examined the rear tire closely? Maybe there's a broken belt, or a separated belt, in it. Or maybe it was simply molded incorrectly. It is a Kenda, right? I really think the shaking is coming from the drive system somewhere. I can't imagine how there would be a defect in the drive belt, but maybe....... Or as Peter mentioned, maybe the pulley is not correctly seated in the rear wheel. Have you had the drive pulley off of the rear tire? Sorry if you've already said so but I just don't remember what all you have written so far. If one of the rubber blocks is installed incorrectly, or is missing, I can see how that would upset the system.

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

" Then it smooths out " ...... I can't think of a way that this is possible .... JMHO .... I wish all the best on this, but you have the weirdest Spyder I have ever heard about .... Mike :thumbup:

Yes. Yes, I do.

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

Dear diary,

I've got an appt Thurs w/a local Spyder dealer to check out the rear wheel balance and setup.

I still have the belt tensioner tied up for now (off the belt). I rode for a bit yesterday tweaking the shocks, got her to where I would tolerate the shaking and try to enjoy the ride...went well, but the shaking is still bad.

Today...wind was a-blowing (for you Ron White fans)...mid-west blowing. And, when I got on the highway, I thought I was going to pull a Dorthy about to lift off the ground when that wind hit this big 24" Madstad windshield of mine shaking and wobbling so bad I thought the dash was about to rip off. Not exaggerating just know how to describe things. I had to put my head down low and take the nearest exit.

Hear me out...I'm no scientist, but a theory I thunk up concerning the windshield. Yes...the windshield could be a factor or the entire friggin' cause. Aero can do some crazy things...remember how ole' Dale learned himself about drafting. It could be screwing up my setup just enough...maybe.

Ok, head's spinning...I mean, several upgrades replaced stock items as she was being uncrated and built at the dealership. Reminder, due to this method, no one even knows if she was messed up from before even being factory crated. Those aftermarket items which affect just the aero and ride alone include the windshield, shocks, front wheels and tires, powder coated sway bar and belt tensioner. I was told the powder coated rear sprocket would not cause any issues or affect handling...true? Any one or combination of those could be the cause.

So, concerning the windshield...I have tested different angling and heights, and it does help when needed, but I keep having to adjust it, and it does shake more 'abnormally' at higher speeds regardless of position. I assumed the bike shaking was screwing up the windshield's aero. Also, over 80+ the bike seems to smooth noticeably including the windshield which could be the magic number for almost perfect aero (**mainly on decent wind riding days)...but today, the shaking began about about 40mph as getting up to speed about to merge on the highway...at 60mph, bike's dash became violent. This theory could also explain why, when I tweak the shocks (just so I can tolerate things), I have to change them again the next day making me think I'm crazy. An earlier posting of mine in this thread, I mentioned how when I tied up the belt tensioner she rode and felt a lot better, but the next day it was worse and I blamed it on me being tired. Also, now I think about it...I've put my feet on both front fenders on several types of roads at various speeds and gears to see how bad they moved thinking maybe they were the culprit...but, I barely feel them move...even though very impressive, the dash is somehow shaking through to me, my back, butt and legs and foot pegs in such an odd way it's hard to pin point exactly where it starts. However, the belt tensioner being tied up helping the problem somewhat kinda wrinkles things though.

Another bummer is I can't test this windshield theory without finding someone willing to remove theirs along with the brackets...unless I buy one. Priced a stock windshield lately? They're not cheap. Guess I might as well...I already have 2 brand new sets of front tires from all this...why not 2 windshields.

We'll see.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

IMHO ... I seriously doubt the Madstad windshield is the issue ...I don't recall ever reading about causing this problem .... . way back in 09 I put a very large Gold Wing windshield ( which was larger than the yours ) on my 08 GS..( others here on the Forum have seen , like Deanna777 and Adrianne also " rnet " ..... I had to mount it " old style " .... ie. a separate frame attached to the handlebar tree.... I rode that bike up to 100+ mph and also in violent high wind thunderstorms .... and it never Created any shaking or wobbling .... This thread is getting quite long, so it's difficult to remember everything you have checked ... at this point I'd be very, very surprised if your front wheels are really balanced .... JMHO ... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Mikey]

opcorn:opcorn: Can't wait to see how his tires balance out!!

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

Agree...long thread...windshield. front kendas were supposedly balanced...2 diff dealers ck'd them. These new continentals I have on there that replace the Kendas we're supposedly balanced.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Agree...long thread...windshield. front kendas were supposedly balanced...2 diff dealers ck'd them. These new continentals I have on there that replace the Kendas we're supposedly balanced.

I still really think you need to concentrate on the rear wheel drive system. You haven't answered any of my questions, or have you and I missed your response?

 

[GrampaEJ]

This might be a silly suggestion, but...

If you're going to remove the belt and inspection BOTH pulleys, try reversing the direction of the drive belt?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This might be a silly suggestion, but...

If you're going to remove the belt and inspection BOTH pulleys, try reversing the direction of the drive belt?

No it's not a Silly suggestion. Taking a GUESS about something and advising someone else to do it, is not something anyone should do ...JMHO ..... I have a spare BRP belt and it has an ARROW indicating the direction of travel. ( this advice is FACT not a Guess )..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[spyder01]

Maybe I missed it, but did this guy get a road force balance on the front tires or just a regular. I’m still a big believer that road force is far superior to regular balance job.

 

[Yabbadabbadoo]

IMHO, most of the issues described at the speeds mentioned sound like wind buffeting to me. But there is also the likelihood of multiple issues happening at the same time. Wind buffeting along with unbalanced or defective tires, some belt vibrations added in...
I would make sure the tires do not have balance beads installed and are clean and dry inside. Then have them re-balanced by a good shop or do them yourselves with a Marc Parnes balancer for the Spyder. It worked great on my bike. Belt vibrations are minor but I can understand that added into the mix of other vibrations it is frustrating. I would also carefully look at the front fairing for cracks or looseness. I added an X-creen wind deflector on my windshields. I tried 4 different windshields and found that they all have buffeting at different speeds depending on the height and characteristics of the shield. The X-creen helps you adjust for that. For example the Blue Ridge windshield is awful at anything over 50mph but with an X-creen on it and adjusted the buffeting went away. Now I'm using a MadStad windshield. I like its adjust-ability but I still found that it was even better with an X-creen on it.
I wish you good luck with solving your problems, you'll get there eventually!

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

@spyder01 - The wheels were upgraded to PPA's using the stock Kendas during the build-from-crate process. I'm currently on new Continental fronts hoping it was the Kendas causing the issue. Both sets of front tires (Kendas and Continentals) were 'standard' balanced at least 2 times each.

I researched Hunter's road force balancing last year. There are local places (tire shops, car dealerships) who do offer road force balancing...however, none have the setup for this small of a wheel or their insurance liability will not allow them to work on wheel which are not car/trucks. I'm currently trying to look out further around the mid-west for a road force, but life's rather restricting making it harder to keep this scooby doo mystery going at all.

I did swap wheels with a friend who rides stock (but, non Kenda rubber) and the shaking was still there. So, road force balancing might help, might not based off this...still want to try though.

@Yabbadabbadoo - I totally agree about the large # of many variables. My size, weight, height, riding style, wind, shocks...on and on and on...guess I was too much of an overachiever getting aftermarket items added before ever riding it fully stocked. My setup could work perfectly for someone else...there are a few who said they don't feel much out of the ordinary...and they said I was crazy or smoking 'weed'. I am not making this up...very frustrating.

I knew I was going to have to dial this bike in to fit me, but crap...wish I'd kept the stock items (instead trading them for labor costs) so I can put them all back on...make sure it's working, and then start adding the aftermarket items 1 at a time. I asked the orig dealer to do this, but did not happen. I asked the local dealer; won't happen. BRP will not enforce with any dealership as well. I was told by BRP they won't go any further or enforce the dealer to go further due to the amount of aftermarket parts even though I (myself) did not build the bike or add the aftermarket parts on the thing.

I've been doing what the dealer and BRP should have done.

I'll see how the wheel checks out this week and go from there...hate it the thread is so long...just reinforces how messed up this all is and how wordy I am. I'll try to update ya'll again.

Thanks for the luck wishes...my finances, time and sanity are not going to allow me to do this much longer which sucks because riding helps the sanity.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Or an 'out of true' rear tire?? :dontknow:

Heck, shaking like that could even be cos the sprocket isn't 'clocked' correctly on the rear rim or the cush rubbers didn't get put in correctly - or have the newer models done away with all that?

There's LOTS of potential causes for shaking like that, but once all the obvious & easy to identify stuff has been excluded (as it seems to have been here... :dontknow: ) they can be really hard to track down, even if the tech is skilled, knows Spyders, and is competent in applying their skills & knowledge! :gaah: And if the tech ISN'T all of those things, it sounds like you'll be paying for someone to learn all about it & how to troubleshoot on your Spyder PIBE, which might create a whole 'nuther set of problems!! :bdh:

Any chance there are Lemon Laws that might apply in Missouri?? :dontknow:

You replaced the front tires, but not the rear. Right? Have you examined the rear tire closely? Maybe there's a broken belt, or a separated belt, in it. Or maybe it was simply molded incorrectly. It is a Kenda, right? I really think the shaking is coming from the drive system somewhere. I can't imagine how there would be a defect in the drive belt, but maybe....... Or as Peter mentioned, maybe the pulley is not correctly seated in the rear wheel. Have you had the drive pulley off of the rear tire? Sorry if you've already said so but I just don't remember what all you have written so far. If one of the rubber blocks is installed incorrectly, or is missing, I can see how that would upset the system.

Given everything you've been through/tried/had done to this & what you've told us so far, altho it has been mentioned earlier, I'm now beginning to think even more than before that there's a good chance that the real cause of all this shaking since the very beginning has been a dodgy rear tire!?! :dontknow:

The rear tire seems to be pretty much the only thing that hasn't been addressed in some way/to some degree, and you wouldn't be alone if you now discovered that simply changing the rear tire for a good quality a/mkt car tire in a suitable size (saaay 205/60 or 65??) and then running it at 16-18 psi didn't resolve the shaking you've been experiencing.... More than just a few frustrated Spyder Owners have eventually found their dodgy OE spec Kenda REAR tire to be the cause of all sorts of elusive shaking & vibration issues initially thought to be front tires, or dodgy bearings, ball joints, etc, etc! :banghead:

Has ANYONE ever seriously looked at the rear tire &/or wheel assembly?? :dontknow: Has anyone ever checked the rear wheel &/or tire for run-out & roundness? How much total balancing weight is there on the rim? Where is that weight located? Does the tire have even tread wear both across the face & around the wheel? Is there any scalloping or any flat spots evident on the tread? How worn over-all is the tread? And the list goes on..... and on..... .

At this stage of your saga, checking this sorta stuff has gotta be at least worth a shot; and even if you don't feel inclined to replace the OE Kenda with a proper car tire (it IS still a Kenda, isn't it?? :dontknow: ) at least give it a thorough inspection, preferably off the rim - it might be very enlightening! And as others have discovered, it might even finally resolve your elusive shaking &/or steering issues too! Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Given everything you've been through/tried/had done to this & what you've told us so far, altho it has been mentioned earlier, I'm now beginning to think even more than before that there's a good chance that the real cause of all this shaking since the very beginning has been a dodgy rear tire!?! :dontknow:

The rear tire seems to be pretty much the only thing that hasn't been addressed in some way/to some degree, and you wouldn't be alone if you now discovered that simply changing the rear tire for a good quality a/mkt car tire in a suitable size (saaay 205/60 or 65??) and then running it at 16-18 psi didn't resolve the shaking you've been experiencing.... More than just a few frustrated Spyder Owners have eventually found their dodgy OE spec Kenda REAR tire to be the cause of all sorts of elusive shaking & vibration issues initially thought to be front tires, or dodgy bearings, ball joints, etc, etc! :banghead:

Has ANYONE ever seriously looked at the rear tire &/or wheel assembly?? :dontknow: Has anyone ever checked the rear wheel &/or tire for run-out & roundness? How much total balancing weight is there on the rim? Where is that weight located? Does the tire have even tread wear both across the face & around the wheel? Is there any scalloping or any flat spots evident on the tread? How worn over-all is the tread? And the list goes on..... and on..... .

At this stage of your saga, checking this sorta stuff has gotta be at least worth a shot; and even if you don't feel inclined to replace the OE Kenda with a proper car tire (it IS still a Kenda, isn't it?? :dontknow: ) at least give it a thorough inspection, preferably off the rim - it might be very enlightening! And as others have discovered, it might even finally resolve your elusive shaking &/or steering issues too! Good Luck! :cheers:

:agree: .... part of the problem is the amount of info the OP has put on this Thread .... remembering what has and hasn't been tried plus what can be eliminated gives me a headache ..... Knowing what you and I and others about the Crapenda's it's hard to eliminate it
/ them as the cause ..... JMHO ./... Mike :thumbup: