Is your spyder shaking, start with the belt tensioner. Now on to Tires!

[bayoumanPIBE]

Why does lowering the belt tension help shaking?

Main question: So, I cannot find any solid laymen's explanation why lowering the belt tension below BRP's stats helps shaking?

I am taking the bike to a local dealership tomorrow morning to have them lower the belt tension some more, but I wanted to talk with ya'll before I do. Am I wasting my time?

Back story: I have posted several things about my issue. So, I have a 2021 F3 Ltd. It shakes at 55+ and does not go away. I've been working on this issue since day 1 of picking the bike up.

I have upgraded the sway bar, shocks, windshield, front tires and belt tensioner.

Recently, I replaced the front Kendas with I have changed to Continental ContiProContact 165/60R-15. The shaking in the bike only eased up a little...I cannot tell much of a difference. Now, when I put my feet on the front fenders at 55-70mph, the fenders still barely bounce. I hardly feel anything within my feet, and the fenders look steady. So, it was NOT the tires.

The overall ride is still bad over 55mph-ish with the shaking starting lightest in my feet up and gets worse up through my body and to my head which can feel like it's buffeting. And, it is not from what little wind is hitting me. The windshield does shake a lot, but it's not the wind...it is shaking from the dash shaking. And, at times the dash shakes to the point where the speakers distort.

Under 55mph, she rides really smooth...then it all begins to turn into shaking and progressively gets worse the higher the mph...never smooths back out...even on the smoothest of black-top. However, I will must point out...the shaking some times does feel to ease up only a little at higher RPM's in 5th gear over 65mph and at times in 6th over 80mph. I realize some of these bikes like to run high within the RPM's...so, I have been trying different riding styles. It is not the riding style...unfortunately.

I have ridden other Spyder models including F3's and the new 2021 stock F3 as well...all ride a lot smother than mine. I realize bikes do shake, but this is just not right.

The day after I got the new tires, I had the dealership lower the belt tension from 242lbs to 220lbs per recommendations from other Spyder riders. It did help smooth her out some, but the ride should be better. The mechanic told me he could feel it as well.

I have read many posts around the net where some lowered their belt tension below 200, and it helped them (to what they consider perfection). I am thinking I may want to lower mine some more.

I am capable of doing it myself and want to learn. The only video I can find https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Ewxr7qwqo shows the rear end of what looks like a GS or ST...but, it looks similar to my 2021 F3 Ltd.

1. Can anyone verify if this video demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Ewxr7qwqo for adjusting the belt tension is still possibly one correct method, is the hardest method, etc.?
2. If anyone else has lowered their belt tension due to shaking, please share your belt tension reading and if it helped.
3. If possible...can anyone (in layman’s terms) briefly explain why lowering the belt tension would smooth out shaking on some bikes. It seems to me the looser the belt, the rougher the ride.
4. Note belt related sorta...but, is there supposed to be a cotter pin where the large bolt attaches to the rear axle? Mine does not as shown in the video. It seems like a safety thing, and I should have one...but, a dealer told me it was not necessary.

If I did not already mention this...I do have a SpyderExtras belt tensioner.

Also, about a month ago, BRP closed out my ticket the original dealership opened due to the aftermarket items on my bike and everything being up-to-spec. So, I am really on my own now...

I am trying really hard to remain optimistic she will ride as expected at some point.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In your definition of " shaking " are you describing " belt Vibrations ", my original thoughts of how to cure it weren't to loosen the belt, because it didn't make sense to me .... however I did lower my tension and discovered that re-moved all or most of the bad vibes I was feeling ...... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Why does lowering the belt tension help shaking?

Main question: So, I cannot find any solid laymen's explanation why lowering the belt tension below BRP's stats helps shaking?

I am taking the bike to a local dealership tomorrow morning to have them lower the belt tension some more, but I wanted to talk with ya'll before I do. Am I wasting my time?

......

A layman's explanation?? Try this - The belt vibrations that some Spyders experience are harmonic vibrations which occur in the 'tight' chord or section of the drive belt (possibly due to the teeth on the 'too tight' belt forcibly thumping into the slots on the sprocket :dontknow: ) making the belt vibrate & 'thrum' sorta like a tight guitar string that's been plucked, only there's 79 or 89 teeth on the sprocket so it's being repeated for each & every tooth :cus: And if you happen to be unlucky enough for that harmonic vibration to resonate with some other part/area of the Spyder, you might find you get a similar frequency vibration or possibly even full on 'shake' in that part/parts that occurs in concert with the belt vibration & it's frequency..... Tightening the belt tension will increase the frequency of the vibration, while lowering the belt tension should reduce frequency of the vibration as the tightness in the belt reduces, which may (should! ) in turn reduce or possibly even remove the harmonic vibration in the belt completely, and with any luck, THAT should mean you don't get the resonance vibration or shake in any other part of the Spyder.... :thumbup:

Not sure that the belt &/or any harmonic vibration is actually the cause of your Spyder's 'shaking', but since I don't have anything else to offer at this stage, I can only suggest that lowering the belt tension to 160 lbs or lower has helped many reduce or eliminate the belt's harmonic vibration (see Mike's post above - there's hundreds more like that on the Forum! ) & it's a pretty easy thing to do, so why wouldn't you give it a shot?!? :dontknow: Being easy (& cheap if you do it yourself - it's really not all that hard, IF you have a Krikit II or other tension tester & can get down there... fiddly, maybe, but not hard! ) I would've at least tried this before buying any new tires, but maybe after getting them balanced & aligned properly.... but it's easy to be an armchair critic on the interwebs, isn't it!

That said, another thing I reckon might be worth trying is adjusting or tie-ing the SmoothSpyder 'belt tensioner' (that's actually NOT a 'tensioner' at all, but rather a 'vibration dampener' ) up off the belt for a bit to at least see if it makes any difference.... it shouldn't, but hey, if you're clutching at straws, why ignore this one?!? :dontknow:

Over to you; hope this 'layman's explanation' &/or the suggestions helped a little?! Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Knizar]

You might check the drive sprocket for spline wear, they have been known to loosen-up.

 

[BajaRon]

Peter is correct. Belt vibration is 'Harmonic'. Like a string on a Guitar. Changing tension changes the vibration frequency. We hear it as a change in tone on a stringed instrument. Loosening a drive belt does not necessarily make the vibration go away. But it will change intensity and definitely change the speed at which the vibration occurs.

I am not sure why you assume the vibration is in the belt. An experienced person would probably be able to locate the source of the issue by riding the Spyder. If the vibration is speed related, and always occurs at the same speed, and you can feel it in the foot pegs. That's a good indication of belt vibration. But if you're feeling it in the handlebars, that's an indication of problems in the front end. Tires, wheels, etc.

As mentioned by Knizar, the drive sprocket can also create vibration issues. Though usually, they are not high frequency like a belt would be. Red dust on the sprocket will indicate you have a problem there.

 

[spyder01]

I had a Case of the windshield skakes since new. I also thought it might be the belt so I put a belt tensioner on and lowered the tension down to 160. That cured the vibration but the shaking was still there. On my last trip I noticed that the fenders were actually bouncing. I took the tires to a shop that had a Hunter Roadforce balancing machine; that machine showed that the wheels weren't perfectly round and neither were the vredstein tires. This type of machine is able to compensate for those issues by rotating the tire on the rim and that seems to have fixed the problem. I've had a lot of bikes and never had any balance issues but I think with the front tires being offset from the centerline of the bike it causes the bike to kinda go left right left right and gets that shield shaking and the dash and mirrors too. If you jack up a tire about 1/2" and spin that tire you may be able to see if your tire/wheel is out of round, but you cant see the balance. I would reccomend going to Hunters website and locating a shop near you that has one.

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

Just to clarify...this is shaking...not vibrations.

I appreciate the explanations for my personal understanding. I have been learning more-and-more about these machines over the years...it's not only fun, but a money saver doing what I can myself.

I did not want to buy new tires. Something told me I should NOT buy tires...but, I did out of hope and no dealership was willing to change out the tires just to test or recreate the issue.

I was told it was the tires / front end was the issue by many...even though the issue could be several possibilities. So, I concentrated on working on the front end since it was the biggest issue for most. I tried everything that was suggested except having the fronts balanced with a more dynamic balancer (Road Force).

However, I have yet to find someone within central MO who has the parts / setup to balance them via a Road Force balancing machine.

Raising it and rotating the tires do not show anything to me or the other pair of eyes that was with me.

The fenders barely move at all. I can put my feet on them, and do not feel anything...so, yeah...not sure about the front end anymore.

Again, I am relaying what was told to me. I am not a tire guy, so anyone telling me I don't know what I'm talking about concerning tires is right...I hate to assume, so bear with me.

I bought a Krikit II after the tires did not work. I checked the tension, it was high and decided to try lowering it. I was going to do it myself, but I don't have large enough wrenches, etc. on top of not having much free time (personal reasons).

I am now assuming it is in the belt, because nothing else has worked, and the minor lowering of the belt tension recently seemed to have helped...plus, there's only so much the internet can do virtually.

BRP and the dealerships have given up (even after I was told one of the mechanics could still feel it).

BRP closed the ticket mainly due to the aftermarket parts as listed (before the new fronts were put on):

- PPA wheels
- King's shocks
- Baja Ron's swaybar, links
- Madstad Windshield
- Spyder Extras belt tensioner

More items I forgot to mention:
- laser alignment was done
- Kenda tires balanced 4 times at different dealerships
- non-Kenda tires balanced 2 times
- I was told the front sprocket is fine
- King shocks replaced with a different set of Kings
- adjusted tire pressures a few variations
- adjusted the shocks many variations
- adjusted the windshield all variations
- I have not tied up the belt tensioner yet.
- swapped entire front wheels with the rubber from a friend's F3-S (granted not the same model)

I do not expect a 100% perfect smooth riding 'anything'. But, there is a lot missing from the quality of ride with this bike compared to other machines. My 2014 ST-S I bought new was smoother. It had the stock wheels with Kendas, Elka shocks, CalSci windshield and Baja Ron swaybar.

I have an appt in the AM to have the belt tension lowered more...but, I am totally still open for suggestions.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just to clarify...this is shaking...not vibrations.

I appreciate the explanations for my personal understanding. I have been learning more-and-more about these machines over the years...it's not only fun, but a money saver doing what I can myself.

I did not want to buy new tires. Something told me I should NOT buy tires...but, I did out of hope and no dealership was willing to change out the tires just to test or recreate the issue.

I was told it was the tires / front end was the issue by many...even though the issue could be several possibilities. So, I concentrated on working on the front end since it was the biggest issue for most. I tried everything that was suggested except having the fronts balanced with a more dynamic balancer (Road Force).

However, I have yet to find someone within central MO who has the parts / setup to balance them via a Road Force balancing machine.

Raising it and rotating the tires do not show anything to me or the other pair of eyes that was with me.

The fenders barely move at all. I can put my feet on them, and do not feel anything...so, yeah...not sure about the front end anymore.

Again, I am relaying what was told to me. I am not a tire guy, so anyone telling me I don't know what I'm talking about concerning tires is right...I hate to assume, so bear with me.

I bought a Krikit II after the tires did not work. I checked the tension, it was high and decided to try lowering it. I was going to do it myself, but I don't have large enough wrenches, etc. on top of not having much free time (personal reasons).

I am now assuming it is in the belt, because nothing else has worked, and the minor lowering of the belt tension recently seemed to have helped...plus, there's only so much the internet can do virtually.

BRP and the dealerships have given up (even after I was told one of the mechanics could still feel it).

BRP closed the ticket mainly due to the aftermarket parts as listed (before the new fronts were put on):

- PPA wheels
- King's shocks
- Baja Ron's swaybar, links
- Madstad Windshield
- Spyder Extras belt tensioner

More items I forgot to mention:
- laser alignment was done
- Kenda tires balanced 4 times at different dealerships
- non-Kenda tires balanced 2 times
- I was told the front sprocket is fine
- King shocks replaced with a different set of Kings
- adjusted tire pressures a few variations
- adjusted the shocks many variations
- adjusted the windshield all variations
- I have not tied up the belt tensioner yet.
- swapped entire front wheels with the rubber from a friend's F3-S (granted not the same model)

I do not expect a 100% perfect smooth riding 'anything'. But, there is a lot missing from the quality of ride with this bike compared to other machines. My 2014 ST-S I bought new was smoother. It had the stock wheels with Kendas, Elka shocks, CalSci windshield and Baja Ron swaybar.

I have an appt in the AM to have the belt tension lowered more...but, I am totally still open for suggestions.

BAJA has wise words ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[canamjhb]

You originally lowered the belt tension from 220 to 200. That is still too tight for most who are seeing harmonic vibrations at higher speeds (above 55 MPH). Get it down to 160 as previously suggested. Even BRP suggests going to that tension in their Technical Service Tip bulletin that addresses belt vibration. Some "mechanics" just look at the stated specs for belt tension and do not research information provided by BRP to deal with various problems like harmonic belt vibrations. That TST has been in existence for several years now. I would get the tension down to 160 and eliminate your damper. And make sure your belt is also otherwise adjusted properly. If that doesn't provide you with a reasonably smooth ride then you have something else to search for. Keep us posted. Good luck..... Jim

 

[Sarge707]

My F3 is down to 150 and I don't feel anything because I don't usually go over 70mph and I have no tensioner. That 60 pounds could make a difference?

 

[BertRemington]

PIBE -- your description of shaking is a bit thin. Could you provide more details where you feel it and under what conditions.

For example, did you have the shaking from the first day you drove it (although it seems many modifications were made before you did)?

Meanwhile recognize there's quite a bit of rubber in the suspension and drive train, from tires to the drive belt. There are a number of steel parts (eg sprocket) but they tend to introduce more of a vibration than shaking.

Since you have an F3, can you feel the shaking when you put your left or right hand directly on the engine? (The engine has some rubber mounts and an engine alignment turnbuckle).

Since you changed shocks, did you perform final tightening with the wheels on the ground (assuming the shocks have rubber bushings)? (This ensures proper pre-tensioning of the bushing.)

Is there a possibility that sometime during the shock and swaybar change the A-arm bolts were loosened? They need to be tightened when the wheels on the ground, again for proper pre-tensioning of the bushings.

Resolving NVH problems is often time-consuming and frustrating. You have my sympathies.

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

**brb with this post...thanks.

 

[spyder01]

Just to clarify...this is shaking...not vibrations.

I appreciate the explanations for my personal understanding. I have been learning more-and-more about these machines over the years...it's not only fun, but a money saver doing what I can myself.

I did not want to buy new tires. Something told me I should NOT buy tires...but, I did out of hope and no dealership was willing to change out the tires just to test or recreate the issue.

I was told it was the tires / front end was the issue by many...even though the issue could be several possibilities. So, I concentrated on working on the front end since it was the biggest issue for most. I tried everything that was suggested except having the fronts balanced with a more dynamic balancer (Road Force).

However, I have yet to find someone within central MO who has the parts / setup to balance them via a Road Force balancing machine.

Raising it and rotating the tires do not show anything to me or the other pair of eyes that was with me.

The fenders barely move at all. I can put my feet on them, and do not feel anything...so, yeah...not sure about the front end anymore.

Again, I am relaying what was told to me. I am not a tire guy, so anyone telling me I don't know what I'm talking about concerning tires is right...I hate to assume, so bear with me.

I bought a Krikit II after the tires did not work. I checked the tension, it was high and decided to try lowering it. I was going to do it myself, but I don't have large enough wrenches, etc. on top of not having much free time (personal reasons).

I am now assuming it is in the belt, because nothing else has worked, and the minor lowering of the belt tension recently seemed to have helped...plus, there's only so much the internet can do virtually.

BRP and the dealerships have given up (even after I was told one of the mechanics could still feel it).

BRP closed the ticket mainly due to the aftermarket parts as listed (before the new fronts were put on):

- PPA wheels
- King's shocks
- Baja Ron's swaybar, links
- Madstad Windshield
- Spyder Extras belt tensioner

More items I forgot to mention:
- laser alignment was done
- Kenda tires balanced 4 times at different dealerships
- non-Kenda tires balanced 2 times
- I was told the front sprocket is fine
- King shocks replaced with a different set of Kings
- adjusted tire pressures a few variations
- adjusted the shocks many variations
- adjusted the windshield all variations
- I have not tied up the belt tensioner yet.
- swapped entire front wheels with the rubber from a friend's F3-S (granted not the same model)

I do not expect a 100% perfect smooth riding 'anything'. But, there is a lot missing from the quality of ride with this bike compared to other machines. My 2014 ST-S I bought new was smoother. It had the stock wheels with Kendas, Elka shocks, CalSci windshield and Baja Ron swaybar.

I have an appt in the AM to have the belt tension lowered more...but, I am totally still open for suggestions.

I googled it and found 16 shops in Columbia that have the machine or at least their website mentions it

 

[BertRemington]

Back story: I have posted several things about my issue. So, I have a 2021 F3 Ltd. It shakes at 55+ and does not go away. I've been working on this issue since day 1 of picking the bike up.

I have upgraded the sway bar, shocks, windshield, front tires and belt tensioner.

Recently, I replaced the front Kendas with I have changed to Continental ContiProContact 165/60R-15. The shaking in the bike only eased up a little...I cannot tell much of a difference. Now, when I put my feet on the front fenders at 55-70mph, the fenders still barely bounce. I hardly feel anything within my feet, and the fenders look steady. So, it was NOT the tires.

The overall ride is still bad over 55mph-ish with the shaking starting lightest in my feet up and gets worse up through my body and to my head which can feel like it's buffeting. And, it is not from what little wind is hitting me. The windshield does shake a lot, but it's not the wind...it is shaking from the dash shaking. And, at times the dash shakes to the point where the speakers distort.

Under 55mph, she rides really smooth...then it all begins to turn into shaking and progressively gets worse the higher the mph...never smooths back out...even on the smoothest of black-top. However, I will must point out...the shaking some times does feel to ease up only a little at higher RPM's in 5th gear over 65mph and at times in 6th over 80mph. I realize some of these bikes like to run high within the RPM's...so, I have been trying different riding styles. It is not the riding style...unfortunately.

PIBE -- the perception of shake has three components: intensity, frequency, and location. I should have clarified those are the details we need.

I suggest you conduct the following tests while riding on a straight level road on cruise control. Is the shake felt in the hand grips? Left grip, right grip, both grips? With both hands on grips, left hand only, right hand only? Does shake change when you remove your hands from the grips? Does the F3 track straight with hands removed from grips (subject to wind and road camber of course)? With cruise control SET, while not touching the throttle and with a light touch on the grips, gently tap the brake pedal allowing the F3 to decelerate until the shaking stops and then push Resume allowing the F3 to accelerate to the SET speed. While firmly holding the throttle and with cruise control off, press on the brake pedal with increasing firmness while increasing throttle to compensate for about 5 seconds or 100 yards.

Okay, here's a big one: remove the fuse for the DPS steering motor power. I'm pretty sure this power is separate from the steering angle sensor power so while the VSS might show a fault it will not put you in "Limp" mode. You want to do this where you don't have to make turns while the F3 is stopped (eg parking). Then repeat the cruise control off brake test above. (This is a long shot test to see if the VSS might be "tapping" one of the brakes due to noise on the CANbus, etc.)

Finally, using an LED flashlight inspect the steering linkage from the DPS to the handlebars and the motor itself for signs of extruded lubricant. There several couplings so try to rotate them feeling for looseness. Also rock the handlebars and see what moves. It would be best if the front wheels are off the ground but okay if not. It's kinda tight in there so you might not be able to reach everything. You had a laser alignment but it's good to double-check.

That's all I have for fault isolation testing. Best wishes on a speedy resolution.

 

[Mikey]

To me it sounds like he may have had a issue with his belt tension, and still has a issue with tire balancing!! Just my two cents! Good luck, you'll get it!!

 

[BertRemington]

The overall ride is still bad over 55mph-ish with the shaking starting lightest in my feet up and gets worse up through my body and to my head which can feel like it's buffeting. And, it is not from what little wind is hitting me. The windshield does shake a lot, but it's not the wind...it is shaking from the dash shaking. And, at times the dash shakes to the point where the speakers distort.

The fenders barely move at all. I can put my feet on them, and do not feel anything...so, yeah...not sure about the front end anymore.

BRP and the dealerships have given up (even after I was told one of the mechanics could still feel it).

- swapped entire front wheels with the rubber from a friend's F3-S (granted not the same model)

If belt tension was the issue, I have to assume BRP and the dealerships would have corrected it to specification. So I followed the path BajaRon pointed to.

 

[PMK]

All the best at your dealer.

Sounds like this is going to be expensive to resolve if lowering belt tension does not settle it. Since BRP will deny warranty unless someone finds a fault that is warrantable, seems you are doing this as time and materials with your shop.

If I were working this issue, my first step would be isolating to determine if it is engine rpm related, gearbox rpm related, rolling related, or only speed related. All are very easy to isolate and can be done in less than 30 minutes of test ride. Once a pattern is shown, check the components within that possible source.

Certainly not difficult, but requires a talented tech that knows troubleshooting and Spyders. That could possibly be your greatest challenge, other than cost, since you throw pails of money at the unqualified tech, with no good results.

 

[ButterSmooth]

How about a faulty belt?

 

[Peter Aawen]

How about a faulty belt?

Or an 'out of true' rear tire?? :dontknow:

Heck, shaking like that could even be cos the sprocket isn't 'clocked' correctly on the rear rim or the cush rubbers didn't get put in correctly - or have the newer models done away with all that?

There's LOTS of potential causes for shaking like that, but once all the obvious & easy to identify stuff has been excluded (as it seems to have been here... :dontknow: ) they can be really hard to track down, even if the tech is skilled, knows Spyders, and is competent in applying their skills & knowledge! :gaah: And if the tech ISN'T all of those things, it sounds like you'll be paying for someone to learn all about it & how to troubleshoot on your Spyder PIBE, which might create a whole 'nuther set of problems!! :bdh:

Any chance there are Lemon Laws that might apply in Missouri?? :dontknow:

 

[bayoumanPIBE]

...... troubleshoot on your Spyder PIBE, which might create a whole 'nuther set of problems!! ....

--sigh, it already has and prob has upset some folks including dealerships...not sure about Lemon laws off hand...it might be like BRP, might not be able to prove it's the bike and not an add-on/alteration.

Lots of great feedback, suggestions, and questions. Many will take time and some will take time and money... I'm not sure how much more money and time I can and/or want to put on this bike. I've customized it for me and added lots of fun extras as well... and then there's all of the money spent on trying to fix a brand new bike.

Yes, there are road force machines locally... the issue is they do not have the components to fit this wheel. I have called some and taken the wheel up to others so they can see it in person... nada... plus, some will not test them due to liability issues.

Here's a bit more history and R&D... as I've ridden this bike more the past several months, I have been able to pin-point a little more of the primary affected area(s). This shaking (or wobble if it helps describe it... ) has happened since day 1 even on well paved roads.

0-50mph - She rides very smooth and maneuvers great. I can put my feet on the front fenders and barely feel or see them move/bounce (even on semi-well paved highways at 80mph).

50-55mph +/-
The shake begins as a small fast alternating movement in more center of the bike than front/rear + more movement left/right than up/down within the heels of my boots up through my butt.

60-70mph +/-
I'm feeling it more strongly throughout my body all at once, and the handlebars/grips and dash are shaking more noticeably. Most of the time, it's more of an annoyance than a safety issue.

75-80 +/-
I can feel the shake throughout myself and the bike much more strongly, it can shake enough to distort music and makes my head feels as if buffeting without a windshield and has distorted vision at times. I know I will feel wind and shaking at higher speeds, but not like this. This is not only a huge annoyance for what I am still paying for, but there are times I must slow down below 70mph to feel safe.

One day I recorded myself riding from my cell mounted in the center of the handle bars. By time I reached 70+, the video was shaking pretty bad.

The shocks - I have not checked for the technical aspects some have mentioned, but I did asked the last dealer to check the install I had done. They said it all looked good. Using the terms of the shock manufacturer, I have adjusted them firmer and softer using the same number of clicks for both as instructed multiple times. I do have them about as dialed in as I can get to make the ride better. The more firm the setting, the more shaking I tend to feel.

In the beginning, the aftermarket items I mentioned were added during the build process once it arrived in crate(s), which at the time made sense... why build it, and then take it apart just to add the aftermarket. I realize now I might've made a mistake doing the build like this... because I never got to ride it fully stock. It is highly possible no one else rode it fully stock either since the add-on's were installed during the build.

I test rode several times (before and after the purchase) 3 different stock 2021 F3 Ltd's from 2 different dealerships... plus, in the past, I have ridden other model/year F3's and my former ST-S... none had such a shake.

Latest from belt adjustment yesterday: As mentioned, I took the bike to the local dealer and asked to have the belt tension set to 175lbs or less within 5lbs if possible. I left... & the bike still rides bad. NOTE: I did not have time to keep testing and having them make adjustments. Anyway, I returned home rather irritated and got back to my day job. Later in the eve, I checked the belt tension...it's at 220 +/-. WTH. I called the dealer and was told it was originally 220 when it came in and left at 168. I told them to be expecting me this Sat AM, so he can have his guy show me how he adjusted the thing and how in the world his readings do not even come close to mine. Now... a thought, but I cannot verify... just kinda common sense to me, but I am not common... so I'm in central MO. It was in the low-mid 30's yesterday. By time the mech began working on the belt, the belt was still warm (I'm fairly sure). So, I'm thinking it might have expanded...making his reading lower than mine from when I checked it last night after it'd been sitting in the cold garage making it contract... HOWEVER, the warm belt he checked should not have read 220 warm when it reads 220 cold... make sense to anyone?

I'll find out more hopefully Sat.

There is a lot I want to reply to... so, I'm going to do my best as time permits.

It just kills me that I can get all of these suggestions and thoughts here and (I'd put more money on it) most of those were not even attempted by those who have tried to fix it.