intermittant vibrations @ highway speeds

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm one of the rare birds who had to increase tension just a bit to get a smooth ride. My belt was 160 on the Kriket with the wheel on the ground and I got bad vibs from 55 to 65 MPH. I kept lowering the tension and test riding until I was down to 120 and still had vibes. Gave it a shot going the other direction and with the tension at 190 wheel on ground I have a great ride all the way up to 90 MPH. My point is that there doesn't seem to be any one spot that works for every bike. I would prefer to run lower tension, but it is what it is.

The general reports on Belt Tension here seems to be 150-160 using a KritKit checked on the ground …… I wonder if something is wrong with your belt ???? …… or Alignment …… Mike hyea:

 

[MONK]

Monk, why don't you just skip dealership, come to my house, for kriket party? I have 36 mm socket, torque wrench. I have already had my rear wheel off for new tire.

forecast for Friday is rain, if we get too much, I don't have any work on new house as it would be a haul dirt in wheel barrow day. so Saturday might work out if you can come, might be a last minute decision.

hey Wahrsuul come on up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I try to do most of my Spyder and bike easy maintenance. I call this easy

rain date could be sunday afternoon

Saturday sounds good. I'll PM you.

 

[Revalden]

Went on my 1st real ride at highway speeds today (about 70 miles of 65-75mph). Intermittantly, I'd get a vibration that felt like a really rough road (not like potholes rough but like...just rough). I could feel the vibrations in the floorboards. I've driven this stretch of road literally thousands of miles in the past couple of years and I don't recall (nor did I see) and bad sections of road. Definitely vibrations. More concerned since the Spyder only has about 650 miles on her.

If it had been a steady vibration, I'd have said it was a very unbalanced tire.

What say ye, fine citizens?

If you're riding a new Spyder, check to see if you got the old Kenda tires(get them off ASAP) or the new Kanines. Either way, have all three tires balanced by a real tire shop and get a Lazer Alignment.

 

[Peter Aawen]

If you're riding a new Spyder, check to see if you got the old Kenda tires(get them off ASAP) or the new Kanines. Either way, have all three tires balanced by a real tire shop and get a Lazer Alignment.

I dunno Revalden.... I do agree that it's sounding very much like Monk has been one of the many who've been unlucky enough to score a set of dodgy OE Spec Kendas on their new Spyder, but if you're going to do what many others have found to be the only solution to their vibration problems and toss those OE Spec Kendas, is replacing them with a 'not yet proven' very similar tire from the same manufacturer really a viable option?!? :dontknow:

Surely, if you're deciding you should probably cut your losses and pay for new tires, then you hafta also ask yourself is it worth the risk of investing in the new Kenda Kanines on the off chance that they might be any better than the old OE Spec Kendas!! Personally, I wouldn't!! We already know that the Kanines have the same 'Special MotorCycle Use Only' warning on their sidewalls; and we know that their published construction details & data is very much the same as the OE Spec Kendas; and while some of the new Kanine 'unpaid Beta Testers' out there might be reporting smoother running in their early reports, there's really very little info on the boards to tell us how well these tires behave once they've done a few thousand miles..... :lecturef_smilie:

So, I guess it comes down to how lucky do you feel? Do you really want to fork out the premium $$ on a new set of Kanines that come out of the same factory as the old OE spec versions and HOPE they'll be any better than the notoriously unreliable OE Spec Kendas that so many get rid of; or would it be a smarter move to spend the $$ (and probably less $$ at that!) on a 'normal' auto tire, in the form of a known good quality tire from a reputable manufacturer.... :dontknow: I know what I'd be doing, and it certainly isn't spending any money on Kenda Kanines in the hope they're going to be any better.... at least not at this stage, not before there's any real long term evidence to suggest they aren't just another tire of notoriously unreliable construction quality where it seems almost as likely that you'll win the Lottery as it is that you might be lucky enough to get a good set?!? You don't play Russian Roulette with loaded firearms do you? If not, why would you play Russian Roulette with your tires before it becomes much clearer on how well these Kanines are going to turn out?! :shocked:

 

[Navydad]

The general reports on Belt Tension here seems to be 150-160 using a KritKit checked on the ground …… I wonder if something is wrong with your belt ???? …… or Alignment …… Mike hyea:

Nope. Belt looks like new at 33,000 miles and alignment on both pulleys couldn't be prettier. 150 to 160 on the ground gets the vibes starting just past 55 and lasting to just shy of 65. Reducing tension moves the vibes very little. I currently have the tension at 185 range and it is smooth sailing past 80 MPH. The general consensus is why I kept lowering my tension to find the sweet spot that others have found. It ain't there :gaah: Raising the tension a bit found it :yes:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Nope. Belt looks like new at 33,000 miles and alignment on both pulleys couldn't be prettier. 150 to 160 on the ground gets the vibes starting just past 55 and lasting to just shy of 65. Reducing tension moves the vibes very little. I currently have the tension at 185 range and it is smooth sailing past 80 MPH. The general consensus is why I kept lowering my tension to find the sweet spot that others have found. It ain't there :gaah: Raising the tension a bit found it :yes:

I can't think of why yours isn't like others here , including me ….. I think the 185 is still a bit below OEM spec...… good luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[MONK]

If you're riding a new Spyder, check to see if you got the old Kenda tires(get them off ASAP) or the new Kanines. Either way, have all three tires balanced by a real tire shop and get a Lazer Alignment.

I dunno Revalden.... I do agree that it's sounding very much like Monk has been one of the many who've been unlucky enough to score a set of dodgy OE Spec Kendas on their new Spyder, but if you're going to do what many others have found to be the only solution to their vibration problems and toss those OE Spec Kendas, is replacing them with a 'not yet proven' very similar tire from the same manufacturer really a viable option?!? :dontknow:

Surely, if you're deciding you should probably cut your losses and pay for new tires, then you hafta also ask yourself is it worth the risk of investing in the new Kenda Kanines on the off chance that they might be any better than the old OE Spec Kendas!! Personally, I wouldn't!! We already know that the Kanines have the same 'Special MotorCycle Use Only' warning on their sidewalls; and we know that their published construction details & data is very much the same as the OE Spec Kendas; and while some of the new Kanine 'unpaid Beta Testers' out there might be reporting smoother running in their early reports, there's really very little info on the boards to tell us how well these tires behave once they've done a few thousand miles..... :lecturef_smilie:

So, I guess it comes down to how lucky do you feel? Do you really want to fork out the premium $$ on a new set of Kanines that come out of the same factory as the old OE spec versions and HOPE they'll be any better than the notoriously unreliable OE Spec Kendas that so many get rid of; or would it be a smarter move to spend the $$ (and probably less $$ at that!) on a 'normal' auto tire, in the form of a known good quality tire from a reputable manufacturer.... :dontknow: I know what I'd be doing, and it certainly isn't spending any money on Kenda Kanines in the hope they're going to be any better.... at least not at this stage, not before there's any real long term evidence to suggest they aren't just another tire of notoriously unreliable construction quality where it seems almost as likely that you'll win the Lottery as it is that you might be lucky enough to get a good set?!? You don't play Russian Roulette with loaded firearms do you? If not, why would you play Russian Roulette with your tires before it becomes much clearer on how well these Kanines are going to turn out?! :shocked:

Three things. First, how would I know if I have the old crappy tires or the new crappy tires? This has the original tires from 2018 (probably manufactured in 2017 although I haven't looked @ the date code) so I'm guessing it probably has the old ones?

Second, whenever I replace the tires (soon or not), I'll probably put Vederestestenien 5Qs on (I have no idea how to spell that but I saved the thread to my computer favorites).

Finally, I'm sure I could use a lazer alignment but I'm way beyond tapped out right now. I'm to the point where I'm doubting the brilliance of buying the Spyder.

 

[Eckhard]

What model and year of Spyder we talking about?

 

[MONK]

2018 rtl

 

[Peter Aawen]

Monk, if your tires don't say 'Kanine' on their sidewalls, then they are the OE Spec Kendas - the old crappy tires. Those are still the tires that are being fitted during manufacture by BRP onto Spyders & Rykers as their Original Equipment tires, and to some degree they are still the 'Dealer directed/BRP Preferred' option as r erplacements, altho Kenda have released the Kanine's as an alternative 'after-market' option & some Dealers are prepared to fit them for you (just don't post their name on the public pages, BRP have reportedly come down hard on some Dealers who've been identified via social media as straying from the Company line!! :shocked: )

That said, the Kanine's share much of their construction and design detail with the OE spec Kendas fitted to our Spyders/Rykers, and they come out of the same manufacturing plant too, so as I said in that earlier post, until we've seen how they perform for a few thousand miles (or preferably , for some TENS of thousands of miles - at least 2 x 10, & preferably 3 or more! ) then no-one really knows if they are any better, the same, or if they might be worse.... (if that's even possible!?! :shocked: ) While we yet remain to see about the Kanines, fitting just about any quality car tire should be a step up from the Kendas, just so long as you remember they won't need to run at quite the same pressure as is necessary for them to carry a larger & heavier auto; but the Vredsteins certainly seem to fit the bill for many and have so far proven to be up amongst if not actually the best choice available for many Spyder Ryders right now - it's just a shame that we can't get them here in Australia?! :thumbup:

As for the wheel alignment, it does seem that BRP & their Dealers have become a lot better at getting the alignment right or close to right before releasing the Spyders to their new owners - certainly here in Aust we aren't seeing the massive miss-alignments on 9 out of every 10 Spyders that we used to, so there's a good chance your alignment isn't awful, altho it still might not be ideal. From what we've seen here on the Forum, it appears that most 'non-dealer alignments' cost in the vicinity of $120-$150, and considering how easily & quickly an incorrect alignment can kill a set of tires, plus the steering & safety issues a bad alignment can cause, it's not really an awful price to pay, is it?! That said, 'vibrations' at speed are usually (but not necessarily exclusively) more to do with tire balance problems, defective or failing tire construction/integrity (arguably fairly common amongst OE spec Kendas?! :dontknow: ) or other defective/damaged suspension &/or steering components.... so maybe an alignment isn't the first thing you should be looking at doing anyway? :lecturef_smilie:

Good Luck & please persist, I'm sure you'll love it once you get thru the 'making it yours' and the 'un-paid beta-testing' phase?! Once the bugs are ironed out, they really can give you Miles of Smiles! :thumbup:

And just a warning about the potential for spending more $$... after an ECU Upgrade, that Miles of Smiles thing becomes 'a permanently affixed Grin a Mile Wide!' hyea: :yes: :clap: :2thumbs:

 

[Navydad]

I can't think of why yours isn't like others here , including me ….. I think the 185 is still a bit below OEM spec...… good luck …. Mike hyea:

Changed oil and took a short ride yesterday to verify oil level. Bike was smooth as silk. Broke out the Kriket for giggles and check the tension again. It was at 180 which is still below spec. I'm going to leave it alone. I have no clue why mine is bucking the trend. I had a 2004 BMW 1150RT with 120,000 miles on the original clutch and rear drive. Folks found that hard to believe as well. Always the odd guy out, go figure :dontknow:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Monk, if your tires don't say 'Kanine' on their sidewalls, then they are the OE Spec Kendas - the old crappy tires. Those are still the tires that are being fitted during manufacture by BRP onto Spyders & Rykers as their Original Equipment tires, and to some degree they are still the 'Dealer directed/BRP Preferred' option as r erplacements, altho Kenda have released the Kanine's as an alternative 'after-market' option & some Dealers are prepared to fit them for you (just don't post their name on the public pages, BRP have reportedly come down hard on some Dealers who've been identified via social media as straying from the Company line!! :shocked: )

That said, the Kanine's share much of their construction and design detail with the OE spec Kendas fitted to our Spyders/Rykers, and they come out of the same manufacturing plant too, so as I said in that earlier post, until we've seen how they perform for a few thousand miles (or preferably , for some TENS of thousands of miles - at least 2 x 10, & preferably 3 or more! ) then no-one really knows if they are any better, the same, or if they might be worse.... (if that's even possible!?! :shocked: ) While we yet remain to see about the Kanines, fitting just about any quality car tire should be a step up from the Kendas, just so long as you remember they won't need to run at quite the same pressure as is necessary for them to carry a larger & heavier auto; but the Vredsteins certainly seem to fit the bill for many and have so far proven to be up amongst if not actually the best choice available for many Spyder Ryders right now - it's just a shame that we can't get them here in Australia?! :thumbup:

As for the wheel alignment, it does seem that BRP & their Dealers have become a lot better at getting the alignment right or close to right before releasing the Spyders to their new owners - certainly here in Aust we aren't seeing the massive miss-alignments on 9 out of every 10 Spyders that we used to, so there's a good chance your alignment isn't awful, altho it still might not be ideal. From what we've seen here on the Forum, it appears that most 'non-dealer alignments' cost in the vicinity of $120-$150, and considering how easily & quickly an incorrect alignment can kill a set of tires, plus the steering & safety issues a bad alignment can cause, it's not really an awful price to pay, is it?! That said, 'vibrations' at speed are usually (but not necessarily exclusively) more to do with tire balance problems, defective or failing tire construction/integrity (arguably fairly common amongst OE spec Kendas?! :dontknow: ) or other defective/damaged suspension &/or steering components.... so maybe an alignment isn't the first thing you should be looking at doing anyway? :lecturef_smilie:

Good Luck & please persist, I'm sure you'll love it once you get thru the 'making it yours' and the 'un-paid beta-testing' phase?! Once the bugs are ironed out, they really can give you Miles of Smiles! :thumbup:

And just a warning about the potential for spending more $$... after an ECU Upgrade, that Miles of Smiles thing becomes 'a permanently affixed Grin a Mile Wide!' hyea: :yes: :clap: :2thumbs:

And …...most important … the Kanines still have " for special motorcycle use only " …. in raised letters on the sidewall ….. not a good sign :banghead::gaah:...... Mike hyea:

 

[ZuluEcho]

No one has mentioned belt harmonics... I have experienced vibrations at some speeds, always within the same range (75-80), above or below that the vibration disappears. The belt is oscillating as it moves. When you reach a certain speed, the wave frequency of that oscillation gets out of wack and produces mechanical vibration. Once the speed is changed , and hence the frequency of the oscillations, the vibration stops. Belt tensioners can help, but rarely (as I understand) get rid of the whole problem. BRP should have gone with a drive shaft, but there you have it...

 

[MONK]

I can dig that but...the vibrations would come and go while at the same speed. (I had the cruise on.)

 

[Peter Aawen]

I can dig that but...the vibrations would come and go while at the same speed. (I had the cruise on.)

Sounding more'n more like tires..... :shocked:

Could be tires reacting to barely perceptible changes in the road surface; could even be as simple as a 'slightly odd' tread wear pattern giving you a different feel &/or creating vibrations as your steering & suspension angles change slightly as you ryde along; or it could be the tread/compound layers separating &/or the internals of the tire construction (plies or cords et al) moving/being moved in ways they really shouldn't; ..... but it's all sounding more'n more like it's the tires! :shocked:

 

[h0gr1der]

I can dig that but...the vibrations would come and go while at the same speed. (I had the cruise on.)

Mine had that exact problem. I would notice the vibration occurring at the very start of a hill, but if I added throttle or slowed slightly it would go away. It has to do with the belt length and load/speed the belt is running at. When my belt was at maximum spec for tension it was a nasty buzz. I kept lowing the tensions, and logging the results. Like NavyDad, I hit a sweet spot around 170-180 Krikit Lbs. Changed my rear Kenda for a Vredestein and never found the sweet spot again. Finally just went to lowest spec tension and that was almost as good so I just stayed there.

 

[canamjhb]

For the 3 years I have been on this forum I don't think I have ever disagreed with anything Peter has contributed...... until now. I think you are experiencing belt harmonics. Here is what I experienced with my (former) 2014 RTL. It was consistently dangerous to ride under any conditions above 65MPH. I Added BajaRon bar, added Elka shocks, had it laser aligned and all front end checked. It was still bad at 65+. I then changed out the OEM tires that still looked very good and the bike began to behave like I thought it should. But I still experienced a load related vibration like you have. Going up a hill and maintaining a constnt speed, I would feel a vibration. If I rolled on the throttle, it would go away. I knew this was not a speed related problem like I had with the tires. I then lowered the belt tension and added a damper. Vibrations disappeared. I think different bikes will react differently and if I had to do it again, I would probably just go with the lower belt tension and forgo the damper. I wound up having my belt tension at 160 on the Krikit gage. I could feel a very slight vibration at about 40MPH but nothing more. Good luck..... Jim

 

[PMK]

Went on my 1st real ride at highway speeds today (about 70 miles of 65-75mph). Intermittantly, I'd get a vibration that felt like a really rough road (not like potholes rough but like...just rough). I could feel the vibrations in the floorboards. I've driven this stretch of road literally thousands of miles in the past couple of years and I don't recall (nor did I see) and bad sections of road. Definitely vibrations. More concerned since the Spyder only has about 650 miles on her.

If it had been a steady vibration, I'd have said it was a very unbalanced tire.

What say ye, fine citizens?

Kind of watched, read and noted the replies being somewhat varied, each with their own merit.

Without doing some actual hands on work to your Spyder, I admit my post is simply an experienced guess.

Multiple items have the possibility to create vibrations. The road, tires, the belt, the engine and even the airflow over the machine.

You mention being kind of at your limit currently, so that plays into troubleshooting. Add to that, it appears you openly admitted to having minimal tools for some of the tasks. Again, another factor that plays into it.

That said, and I do not know specifically what the issue is.

My thought though it a very systematic way to troubleshoot with the least amount of effort.

If you are able to visit the local person offering to help, that is huge, especially if he is open to help.

Knowing the difficulty level of the tasks stated to accomplish, and no assurance as to what will make a noticed change to actually place blame on something, this would be my approach if possible.

I assume the person offering help has a jack and torque wrench. If so, ask nicely if he will allow you to swap the left front wheel / tire assembly from your Spyder to his and his wheel assembly onto yours. Each give a test ride. Did the vibration remain on your Spyder, or did it follow onto his Spyder? Make notes of any changes.

Next swap the other wheel assemblies, and test again.

Even if the problem followed with the first wheel assembly swap, accomplish the second and note the changes.

At this point, as you swap wheel assemblies back to where they were installed originally, give the tires a spin, and watch for any wobble in the tread pattern and also any lack of roundness or humps. Again make notes.

Swapping and testing wheel assemblies is easy and validates if the tires are the issue. If the tires are round and have no or minimal wobble to the tread, but the vibration seems tire related, consider having an automotive shop properly dynamically balance the tires.

Since rhe jack may already be out and ready to work, next raise the Spyders rear wheel off the ground. Give a few check with the Cricket tool in one belt position. Then spin the rear tire and check belt tension in another spot. Do this few times and kind of see how things average out.

With the wheel raised, also grab the rear pulley and see if the bearing is worn, by inspecting for a wobble by grabbing at the 6 / 12 hand positions.

Check rear wheel bearings also, looking for a wobble when grabbing at the 6 / 12 hand positions.

If the belt tension exceeds 140lbf (pounds force) make adjustments, to lower the tension. The TSB belt tension range is 120 lbf to 160 lbf. Most people that have run 140 or below towards 120 have obtained excellent results.

Lastly, by your friend some lunch, you both earned it, him more so if he was kind enough to adjust belt tension and let you roll his tires a few miles.

 

[Woodaddict]

i assume the person offering help has a jack and torque wrench. If so, ask nicely if he will allow you to swap the left front wheel / tire assembly from your spyder to his and his wheel assembly onto yours. Each give a test ride. Did the vibration remain on your spyder, or did it follow onto his spyder? Make notes of any changes.

Next swap the other wheel assemblies, and test again.

Even if the problem followed with the first wheel assembly swap, accomplish the second and note the changes.

At this point, as you swap wheel assemblies back to where they were installed originally, give the tires a spin, and watch for any wobble in the tread pattern and also any lack of roundness or humps. Again make notes.

Swapping and testing wheel assemblies is easy and validates if the tires are the issue. If the tires are round and have no or minimal wobble to the tread, but the vibration seems tire related, consider having an automotive shop properly dynamically balance the tires....

my plan was to jack up wheels and spin the tire. But yes, we could even swap the wheels. But first we can ride each others spyders, i have car ties on(3), laser alignment, centranamic balancers, along with about 165 on kriket. And most of all currant black, which makes it glide thru the air!!

 

[PMK]

MY PLAN WAS TO JACK UP WHEELS AND SPIN THE TIRE. BUT YES, WE COULD EVEN SWAP THE WHEELS. BUT FIRST WE CAN RIDE EACH OTHERS SPYDERS, I HAVE CAR TIES ON(3), LASER ALIGNMENT, CENTRANAMIC BALANCERS, ALONG WITH ABOUT 165 ON KRIKET. AND MOST OF ALL CURRANT BLACK, WHICH MAKES IT GLIDE THRU THE AIR!!

Sorry to impose suggestions to make you work harder.