PMK
Active member
Ironic, there is zero wear on the splines in our 2014, they were lubricated by BRP when assembled new.
If someone took the time to research the failures, I suspect most failures would be on pulleys / shafts without lube.
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17,000 Miles and the front pulley is history!
- Thread starter bboley
- Start date
Ironic, there is zero wear on the splines in our 2014, they were lubricated by BRP when assembled new.
If someone took the time to research the failures, I suspect most failures would be on pulleys / shafts without lube.
Freddy
Active member
No, to the above in bold. The increased torque on the bolt locked the pulley to the shaft (because the pulley stood just proud of the splined shaft) clamping it rigidly to the shaft, hence no more failures.
From what jcthorne and a couple of others have observed, that is not possible on the 1330 because the shaft sits proud of the pulley.
I don't recall any other owners reporting seeing grease when they have simply looked at the pulley - just lots of owners reporting that they see red dust. :yikes: So that raises the question, how did yours come to have grease? :dontknow:
But all this is academic - Houston, we have a problem! or is that - BRP, you have a problem!!!
PMK
Active member
Freddy, have you yourself actually removed the pulley from a 1330 Spyder?
As for the splines being lubricated on our RTS when built new, the grease used has been posted either in the other topic or on the FB topic.
i will find the photos of the pulley inspection on our 14 RTS, possibly things have been changed, however the photos should indicate that the pulley sets pround of the shafts end, by likely 1mm.
If what the others state is true, that the shaft sets proud of the pulley, then there would be no reason for BRP to now have discontinued the multi piece retaining bolt and separate washer and have gone to a one piece bolt / washer design, with the large OD washer integrated into the bolt.
stmike 1800
Member
All standard trans have sliding gears with splines ,they are in oil and almost never fail .If the sprocket was to be lubed with a moly type grease at a set time it should last .
jcthorne
Well-known member
They have not discontinued the separate washer and bolt. Both forms are still available to order and are prescribed for different years. While I do not know all of them, I can tell you the 2015 F3 uses the separate washer and bolt, the 2016 and newer specifies the one piece. The parts look up for the 2015 has not been updated to show a superseded part.
Inquiring through BRP tech help at the dealer, dealer was told to replace like for like as shown in the parts lookup and not to update an older bike to the newer part but gave no reason.
On another note, I found out how they got my pulley off. Using a harmonic balancer puller with bolts through the holes in the pulley. The were able to get nuts on the bolts behind the pulley one at a time using a bent closed end wrench to hold the bolt. Wish I had thought of that. But they were great about it.
The 08's still use the bolt and washer. I have witness marks on mine because I have noticed that the washer tends to move even after being torqued to the higher spec. I had the front pulley in mine fail in 2016 in a fashion similar to what is now being seen with the F3's. I don't know if it was from fretting, or from the bolt coming loose and allowing the pulley to move laterally.
I've always wondered why the new issue seems to be more prevalent in the F3's then the RT's. I know the pulleys are different, but what makes one design last longer with no issues, and the other be more prevalent to failure?
I've always wondered why the new issue seems to be more prevalent in the F3's then the RT's. I know the pulleys are different, but what makes one design last longer with no issues, and the other be more prevalent to failure?
PMK
Active member
Ironic, I was led to understand, when the dealer looked up the original separate bolt washer vs the one piece setup, the previous had been superseded. I was under the impression, you tried using a crow foot puller.
PMK
Active member
A photo of the bolt removed, pulley still in position on shaft, grease is evident and the pulley sets proud of the shaft.
Attachments
PMK
Active member
Some of the photos during the pulley / spline inspection on our 14 RTS. Yes the splines were lubricated from BRP. Splines showed no wear, either on the pulley or the gearbox output shaft. I opted to assemble wet with lubricated splines and applied corrosion prevention compound to the grip of the bolt. The bolt threads were left dry except for oem applied locking compound. When I accomplished this task, it was still uncertain if the bolts were backing off and allowing the pulley to have less applied tension securing it. I drilled the bolt and lockwired it to safety it. Previously, you notice the red paint, I had painted witness marks to visually see if the bolt or washer had turned.
I opted to reassemble with the splines lubricated. BRP around the same time decide to use the Loctite method to reduce the clearance to 0/0. In theory, both can work. MY method does not require the specific steps and cure time to ensure the Loctite is done correctly. However, I do plan on having this inspection and relube of the splines accomplished in about 14k miles when I do the transmission filter. If there is no wear of the lube is not breaking down, I may extend the next inspection to 28k miles and accomplish it during each transmission filter change.
I opted to reassemble with the splines lubricated. BRP around the same time decide to use the Loctite method to reduce the clearance to 0/0. In theory, both can work. MY method does not require the specific steps and cure time to ensure the Loctite is done correctly. However, I do plan on having this inspection and relube of the splines accomplished in about 14k miles when I do the transmission filter. If there is no wear of the lube is not breaking down, I may extend the next inspection to 28k miles and accomplish it during each transmission filter change.
Attachments
Freddy
Active member
No - just going on what folks like you have posted in this thread. My hands-on experience is with the V-twins.
The second Bold point contrasts with observations made by others herein, so That needs some investigation/confirmation. The pulley proud of shaft by about 1mm is the case on the V-twin. Thanks for your pic above.
PMK
Active member
It does seem viable that when the gearbox shaft spun inside the worn pulley, the pulley width could have been worn or reduced also, but never to the point where the shaft is proud of the pulley, unless the pulley is not manufactured to the correct width, or dimensionally, something else is incorrect. I suspect, but could be wrong, the wording was incorrect as posts described the pulley bore height.
tofriendscreek
Member
Red dust was very evident on my 17 F3L with 16,000 miles. The pulley came off using one hand. Wear was present in the spines, but had not reached the point of being severe. The splines were not coated with any grease. New install a few days ago with the Locktite fix per BRP. Fingers crossed.
jcthorne
Well-known member
My newly installed pulley has a bolt and washer. I did try a pulley puller but it had jaws to pull from the flange of the pulley. That is actually the correct tool for the job, the harmonic balancer puller with rigged bolts was a cobbled together idea that just happened to work. I was not even aware there was one spot on the rearward side of the pulley where there was sufficient room to slide a nut behind the pulley. So I figured I would share what worked in case others ran into it. Mine was stuck HARD.
jcthorne
Well-known member
That is a different pulley than the 2015 and newer F3 use. One feature that immediately pops out is the threaded holes in the face that were used for the harmonic balencer on the older v twins. The newer pulleys are different. And the factory installs do not have grease, at least for F3 models.
TerryTheSpyderRyder
New member
Lubing The Slines
Or lube with heavy bearing grease at 5-year intervals or 30k miles, whichever comes first. And this method doesn't "glue" the sprocket to the shaft! Careful though, just lightly "wet" the splines. You don't want any grease oozing out when you torque down the bolt.
Or lube with heavy bearing grease at 5-year intervals or 30k miles, whichever comes first. And this method doesn't "glue" the sprocket to the shaft! Careful though, just lightly "wet" the splines. You don't want any grease oozing out when you torque down the bolt.
Last edited:
SpyderJerry
Member
lubed splines
Keep in mind that gears in transmission are hardened just as the shaft is. the drive sprocket is not hardeded the same as the shaft.
Keep in mind that gears in transmission are hardened just as the shaft is. the drive sprocket is not hardeded the same as the shaft.
stmike 1800
Member
They can make the shaft and gear to last, but choose not to.
jcthorne
Well-known member
In this case, I think it was just a design oversight. Not a choice to cheap out on a part. The proposed fix BRP has initiated seems to be working and will likely be used for factory assembly going forward at some point.
OkieDoc
New member
Preventive Maintenance with Loctite 648
I used an old steering wheel puller I had to remove my front sprocket. Large grade 8 washers behind on 3/8" bolts run through the holes in the sprocket, and an old bushing from my junk drawer over the center of the output shaft to protect the threads and it came off easily. The puller was the perfect size for the holes in the sprocket. There did not appear to be any "red dust" or any evidence of old lubricant or locking material. I cleaned the splines with brake cleaner and a brass brush on both the output shaft and my sprocket. I applied the Loctite 648 to both surfaces and "press fit" the sprocket back on with a dead blow hammer. Actually just a few light blows was all it took. I used blue thread locker on the bolt and torqued it to 90lb/ft.
I did this while I was changing the rear tire so it was easy to get to and I believe will be good insurance in the future. :doorag:
I used an old steering wheel puller I had to remove my front sprocket. Large grade 8 washers behind on 3/8" bolts run through the holes in the sprocket, and an old bushing from my junk drawer over the center of the output shaft to protect the threads and it came off easily. The puller was the perfect size for the holes in the sprocket. There did not appear to be any "red dust" or any evidence of old lubricant or locking material. I cleaned the splines with brake cleaner and a brass brush on both the output shaft and my sprocket. I applied the Loctite 648 to both surfaces and "press fit" the sprocket back on with a dead blow hammer. Actually just a few light blows was all it took. I used blue thread locker on the bolt and torqued it to 90lb/ft.
I did this while I was changing the rear tire so it was easy to get to and I believe will be good insurance in the future. :doorag:
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