Did you get the red dust beforehand? Had you put anything else on it. Like a moly lube?
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17,000 Miles and the front pulley is history!
- Thread starter bboley
- Start date
Did you get the red dust beforehand? Had you put anything else on it. Like a moly lube?
jcthorne
Well-known member
Red Dust, yes. I had not done anything to it.
TerryTheSpyderRyder
New member
Rusty Sprocket
Thanks..you would have thought that, with CanAm's obsession with putting self-locking compounds and locktite on just about every nut and bolt on their machines, they would have applied locktite spline retainer to that shaft. Probably will on their newest machines.:spyder:
Thanks..you would have thought that, with CanAm's obsession with putting self-locking compounds and locktite on just about every nut and bolt on their machines, they would have applied locktite spline retainer to that shaft. Probably will on their newest machines.:spyder:
TerryTheSpyderRyder
New member
It's a Spyder
Could be worse..See SlingShot swing arm, shaft-and-rear end failures.
:yikes:
Could be worse..See SlingShot swing arm, shaft-and-rear end failures.
TerryTheSpyderRyder
New member
Preventative Maintenance
I was thinking of going ahead and pulling off the sprocket on my F3 with 2000 miles to prevent this issue, and installing the loctite shaft compound. If the sprocket isn't seized, do I still need a puller? Thanks.:f_spider:
I was thinking of going ahead and pulling off the sprocket on my F3 with 2000 miles to prevent this issue, and installing the loctite shaft compound. If the sprocket isn't seized, do I still need a puller? Thanks.:f_spider:
Freddy
Active member
If what jcthorne says in reply 14 is correct, which I commented on in reply 17, nothing will prevent the failure - this side of a wider pulley hub or hardened washer installed on the shaft behind the pulley.
TTSR, it's fairly quick and easy to answer that question yourself - just remove the bolt and see if the pulley slides off.
TTSR, it's fairly quick and easy to answer that question yourself - just remove the bolt and see if the pulley slides off.
stmike 1800
Member
Why would BRP not made the pulley and shaft with a slight tapper ?:banghead:
ofdave
New member
The bolt holds the pulley from lateral movement. It is not intended to stop rotational movement.
That's what the splines are for. Just like any other use of a splined shaft and pulley.
The bolt does lock the pulley and shaft together on the V twin to serve the same purpose-to stop lateral movement of the pulley, not rotational movement.
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Freddy
Active member
Correct, according to jcthorne's observations. If he is correct, your second comment is true. Your following comments are true in part, as evidenced by the BRP service bulletin on the subject about 8 years ago, where they stated that the clamping force of the retaining bolt was inadequate due to insufficient torque being applied to the retaining bolt on assembly - to lock them together without relying on the splines, which failed then and are failing again.
The splines on these machines are not designed to transmit drive. We're seeing that repeated repeatedly. :cheers:
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jcthorne
Well-known member
Tapered splines are very expensive to machine in comparison to straight ones. Also not completely sure it would have solved the problem.
PMK
Active member
If the splines are not to transmit drive, what is, the bolt that simply holds the pulley on the shaft? My 6 HP lawnmower requires at least a key to couple the blade and spin it, the bolt merely keeps the blade on the shaft.
Fretting corrosion and wear destroys the pulley splines. For this application, two methods have been used to resolve the fretting issue. One is to use the Loctite and essentially glue the pulley onto the shaft to prevent movement. The other method is to lubricate the splines to prevent wear. As I posted earlier, our 2014 RTS has lubricated splines from new, and no wear is present. Not no dust, no wear as I took it apart and inspected the pulley and shaft.
That bolt at 95 ftlb torque is simply saving you ankle from wear.
PMK
Active member
I can not recall ever seeing tapered splines. Typically in a tapered shaft design, they may or may not use a key also. My OSSA trials bike uses a non keyed tapered shaft and drive on the crankshaft end to drive the clutch. Often with a tapered shaft and key, the key is to hold a timing, such as on a flywheel with a CDI.
Tapered splines, and the stress of the taper, may induce stress cracking in the spline root of the female splined part on account of the extreme outward pressure.
PMK
Active member
The splines work fine, the problem is wear from fretting.
If you've ever removed the front pulley, it's not a tight fit with the output shaft, at least on the older 998's. You can easily remove it by hand. There is quite a bit of tolerance in the fit. Enough you can move the sprocket forward and backwards on the shaft.
I think the this is causing the fretting wear. Everytime you would shift from reverse to first, or vice versa the splines would rub against each other. The Loctite will fill in this Gap and keep the splines from rubbing against each other.
I think the this is causing the fretting wear. Everytime you would shift from reverse to first, or vice versa the splines would rub against each other. The Loctite will fill in this Gap and keep the splines from rubbing against each other.
PMK
Active member
Not even the shift from forward to reverse, simply any force that increases the load on the splines. This includes simply riding and never even finding reverse.
Fretting corrosion is not like typical rust, it is a corrosion that results from a high pressure interface with microscopic relative motion. Essentially, it can be assumed the movement is nil but the pressure is high. The result is typically a very hard oxide is produced and this in a sense becomes almost a micro fine compound that increases wear.
Most often I see this in riveted aluminum joints, or aluminum joints joined with exotic fasteners on high stressed airframe structures. Depending on the severity, that dictates the required repair actions.
The two possible means to stop fretting is either lock the two parts and prevent any motion, or lubricate the parts to stop the wear. The third choice is do not ride.
This is a good article in regards to spline drives and fretting.
http://files.danfoss.com/documents/L1310978.pdf
Freddy
Active member
..........which is the issue here - we agreed totally. The splines can work fine is certain circumstances as we agree, but not on these machines as they come from the factory.
Your Danfosss info is great and Ive seen a more in-depth one in the other looonger thread on pulley failures.
Interestingly it states: Another method of stopping frettingcorrosion is to use a clamped coupling.With a clamped coupling it is possible tovary the fit from sliding to solid.
This is what BRP did to rectify the 998 failures but it seems impossible on the 1330 for reasons stated above.
PMK
Active member
So, you are saying BRP redesigned the pulley, allowing a pinch bolt design that clamps the splines?
FWIW, consider, if the bolt alone was able to couple the shaft to the pulley and prevent movement, why would BRP even consider adding the expense to cut the splines in the pulley and shaft?
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