1330 Performance Upgrades

[Dennis in Lodi]

The splice

So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.

This past summer, I took my flashed RT to Canada for the purpose to get a Dyno test, figure out the speed restrictions and solve the gearing change. In my short time there I was 0 for 3 in those goals as I was on a vacation and didn't want my only ride tied up. We learned a current F3S or Daytona is needed for the project going forward to conduct reliable Dyno testing.
In follow up conversation with Monster Fuel is where the splice comment came up. Blinding the rear wheel works with the splice for a gearing change but the rear wheel is no longer part of the ABS. So to me that does not seem like a solution??
JCThorne posted his flash test results and he showed a 20 hp gain on his F3S. I can't find that post??
To be honest, my 2016 totally stock F3L WITH the 89 tooth sprocket did not show ANY net gain in my time and distance testing and only modest gains when I tested exhaust combinations. This is being mirrored in comments from F3S owners. The flash was designed around the 79 tooth gearing and the 89 tooth is not befitting from the flash as much as the RT OBVIOUSLY DOES. 25' of rubber and 0 to 68 mph is proven on the video.
In follow up conversations about this issue with Monster Fuel they, implied the 89 tooth gearing is being addressed with a different flash option.

I AGREE WITH YOU, since they have a full time Daytona test bike, a Dyno shop less than an hour away, it's time to poop or get off the potty.
Dennis

 

[Hypurone]

To be honest, my 2016 totally stock F3L WITH the 89 tooth sprocket did not show ANY net gain in my time and distance testing and only modest gains when I tested exhaust combinations. This is being mirrored in comments from F3S owners. The flash was designed around the 79 tooth gearing and the 89 tooth is not befitting from the flash as much as the RT OBVIOUSLY DOES. 25' of rubber and 0 to 68 mph is proven on the video.
In follow up conversations about this issue with Monster Fuel they, implied the 89 tooth gearing is being addressed with a different flash option.

And up until this post I was the only one voicing this result and everyone thought I was crazy! What is this flash option you speak of? The last time I spoke to Steve he made no mention of it! :dontknow:

 

[Wildrice]

$14 per horsepower ( if you REALLY can get 25 HP) is a really a good deal. Most other performance mods for the RT cost more and produce no power to speak of. I've hopped up every motor I've ever owned ( even the two snow blowers)

This may be nextnojoke

Lew L

You must have a sick mind---I would know because I have the same problem---I even have the cheap tach on my riding lawn mower--I increased the maximum RPM. Has anyone seen my cutting blade that flew off?? It went South:yikes:.
Darrell

 

[Lew L]

You must have a sick mind---I would know because I have the same problem---I even have the cheap tach on my riding lawn mower--I increased the maximum RPM. Has anyone seen my cutting blade that flew off?? It went South:yikes:.
Darrell

I resemble that. Both snowblowers resemble much larger units ( in snow throwing capability ) A slight governor mod and rubber flaps added to the thrower made a HUGE difference.

Now to the :spyder2:, haven't modded the motor yet but that is the question of this thread....................

Lew L

 

[Wildrice]

:yikes: ........ Google it ..... Mike :thumbup:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...cle-racer-dies-after-hitting-285-mph/2516457/

Bill Warner (Fish Farmer) was one of the nicest quiet type guy--no ego problem--that I've ever met.. Running on the Loring Air Force decommissioned B2 bomber airstrip in N. Maine. 1/2" pavement difference in the 4 mile runway was perfect for land speed racing. Bill hit 311 mph in the 1.5 mi run but was trying hard for 300 mph in the one mile. 292 mph was his best on a prior run. Personally I loose the ability to process data above 175-190 mph--tach-shift points-track bad spots--cross wind bursts. It enables me to understand that most Formula 1 racers have Mensa IQ ratings. Land Speed Racing is a very high risk sport. Lucky for us the Spyders can't reach 50% of that speed.
Darrell

 

[garb55]

Poseidon, most Spyder owners are too old to want more power.

Speak for yourself
I' m almost 71
I always want more power

 

[M109Dreamer]

So, unless I'm not understanding your post correctly, splicing the sensors to allow a dyno run is just a theory. If that is the case, how do they know the flash is increasing hp and torque? One or the other has to be incorrect. Either they know how and have had it on the dyno, or they don't know how much gains to expect. Maybe their butt dyno is more sensitive than mine.

Sean,
I've hear a just a few mods, not sure about the 1300's though. You can obviously change the air intake, exhaust, cat delete. In the earlier days some even played around with a juice box and PCV, not sure if it was an auto tune. But, whenever someone tried to find out the "actual" gains I never have read here that someone was able to Dyno to verify this Hp/Tq gains. So even with the ECU flash, which seems to be the current wave for increasing "hp/tq" until there is an actual way to Dyno, we wont know what the actual "performance" gains are.

Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.

 

[blacklightning]

Which brings up a question I have. If the Spyder currently cant be Dynoed, then how is BRP making the claim of 100+HP? Wonder if they are just using their good "ole" math to calculate? Similar to the same guy that says the tank can hold 5+ gallons of gas. I would by the guy a round trip plane ticket to prove it can be done on our Spyder.

I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.

 

[Wildrice]

I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.

I actually think it would be fairly easy. Locate the 3-wheel sensor wires going into the ECM; label & cut the 3 wires - install a 3 wire into 1 wire pigtail jumpers with push on connectors for easy return to normal after the test. Connect the rear sensor input & both of the floating front wheel input sensor wires & connect the output lead of the 3 to 1 input to the rear senor input on the ECM. Now the front wheels could be stationary - lifted up same height as rear on makeshift ramp or jack stands. That's the whole process. Reconnect cut wires with push on terminals back to original location after the dyno is finished. I'll find & prep the ECM wires & run a dyno this Spring-Summer.
Darrell

 

[M109Dreamer]

I would think that they come up with their claimed hp by possibly doing an engine dyno test. No one (car, truck, bike, or trike) really gives an accurate rwhp number. I would think that you should be able to possibly strap a spyder down on a car dyno. I am probably wrong about this, but I do know that most motorcycle dynos that I have seen were too small to put a trike on.

If they did use the Dyno to get their numbers then there must be a way, might check with BRP and see if they will share how they were able to Dyno them. Be curious, wonder if its something they can deactivate with their software?

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If they did use the Dyno to get their numbers then there must be a way, might check with BRP and see if they will share how they were able to Dyno them. Be curious, wonder if its something they can deactivate with their software?

Must be in a different thread but IIRC JCThorne said there is a provision in BUDS to deactivate the wheel sensors. So being able to Dyno a Spyder would be pretty easy if you the BUDS software.

 

[Jetfixer]

I actually think it would be fairly easy. Locate the 3 wheel sensor wires going into the ECM label & cut the 3 wires---install a 3 wire into 1 wire pigtail jumpers with push on connectors for easy return to normal after the test.. Connect the rear sensor input & both of the floating front wheel input sensor wires & connect the output lead of the 3 to 1 input to the rear senor input on the ECM. Now the front wheels could be stationary--lifted up same height as rear on makeshift ramp or jack stands. That's the whole process. Reconnect cut wires with push on terminals back to original location after the dyno is finished. I'll find & prep the ECM wires & run a dyno this Spring-Summer.
Darrell

The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.

For clarification. I agree with the digital signal bit to VSS. However, it is not part of the CANbus. CANbus is the network for communicating among the various processors on the bike, i.e., VSS to TCM to ECM to cluster, and so on. It is not for the input signals to those processors.

 

[Wildrice]

The wheel speed sensors send a digital frequency signal to the VSS system. If you cut those wires, I think you'll be hatin' life. Messing with the digital Canbus system is very expensive.

If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem?? Just my opinion from spending 20 yrs as an I/O & Mainframe National/International Tech Support Specialist. I just about lived on an airplane for 7 yrs repairing systems in 40+ States & England, France, Germany, & Mexico City. Technology units have really shrank in size but most of the concepts are fairly similar on the output side. I don't miss riding the NYC subway at 2AM-3AM with the weirdo's. When time, weather, & family health issues clear up I will locate the speed sensor wires entering the ECU--cut & splice & go for a ride & let you know the results of my theory. Currently it is 25 degrees in Westerville OH Worse case if the front wheel sensors attach to more than the ECU I will remove the front wheel sensors & splice all 3 sensor wires together at the ECU in lieu of just letting the front wheel sensor wires as an open floating. The ECM maybe sending different signal.wires to the Trans & VSS.
Darrell

 

[TRLBLZR1]

If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem?? Just my opinion from spending 20 yrs as an I/O & Mainframe National/International Tech Support Specialist. I just about lived on an airplane for 7 yrs repairing systems in 40+ States & England, France, Germany, & Mexico City. Technology units have really shrank in size but most of the concepts are fairly similar on the output side. I don't miss riding the NYC subway at 2AM-3AM with the weirdo's. When time, weather, & family health issues clear up I will locate the speed sensor wires entering the ECU--cut & splice & go for a ride & let you know the results of my theory. Currently it is 25 degrees in Westerville OH Worse case if the front wheel sensors attach to more than the ECU I will remove the front wheel sensors & splice all 3 sensor wires together at the ECU in lieu of just letting the front wheel sensor wires as an open floating. The ECM maybe sending different signal.wires to the Trans & VSS.
Darrell

Had read on other forums that this was one way to disable anti-slip on older machines that did not have provisions to disable traction control.... (After the mod, traction control reporting 0 slip, all input reading off the front wheel.) But even without mod (me simply disabling t/c on my SE machine) there's not really enough power during warm weather (with sticky tires) to reliably get the tire loose/counter-steer. (So close, but not quite there. And I have no interest/won't hold the brake to build power from a stop, although that might work.)

I hope someone comes up with a good flash for my machine that makes a difference. I'd be happy with 10 - 15% increase. That would make all the difference with traction control disabled. As it is now, 2/3 of the time I accelerate from a stop (even turning onto the road) with traction disabled in warm weather: Instead of the expected slip & counter-steer, all I'm left with is my inside front tire 6 inches off the ground. Definitely not the desired results!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If the front wheel rotor has the same diameter as the rear---cutting & inputting all 3 speed sensors to the ECM would produce the same effect as riding in a straight line. Digital frequency is nothing more than pulses & all 3 wheels use them. Unless the ratio from the front is different than that from the rear---how else could it produce a problem??

The tires are different ODs. Front is about 22.1", rear about 23.9". The pulses per foot of travel will be different unless the rear rotor is larger and has more slits for the sensor to count.

 

[mackanigbg]

Hi,
I agree with some of the previous "speakers", I came from the quad/ATV community before I bought my first Spyder and there it was a natural thing to tune it in every possible way, air filter, exhaust and software
In the Spyder community on the other hand there is no one even talking about tuning and no one seem to do it, strange.....

Powercommander 5 is available for Spyder but not for all year models, and I used that together with autotune on my Yamaha Raptor 700 which gave quite a lot extra power.

There is also a swedish company called Vtech/Maptun which has specialized in upgrades for "power sport" vehicles lika snowmobiles (Skidoo), water crafts (Seadoo) and also Spyder´s and ATV´s.
When I talked to them they told me they have sold a lot of Spyder software upgrades especially to the US.

Their software stage 2 together with muffler replacement pipe (cat delete) gives a raise from 115 hp to 140 hp

https://www.maptunpowersports.com/tu...er-f3-s-115-hp

 

[Wildrice]

I completely agree. You hit the nail on the head in regard to the other BRP lines. It isn't just an age thing tho. Like you mentioned, some would appreciate the extra power for towing a trailer, others that put a lot of highway miles on would surely appreciate extra power in the top end for passing and getting past tractor trailers before they get blown off the road or ran over. In my mind, it is better to have too much HP / torque an not need it, than need it only to find you don't have it. Sometimes, having the power to get out of the way in a hurry is a safety feature like having good brembo brakes, ABS, stability control, etc. Anyone that feels they don't need more power doesn't have to twist the throttle as far, or they could offer different performance packages like you had suggested.

Even if younger generations couldn't afford it, they would wait until the used priced dropped enough that they could afford it, just like they do, he'll...we all probably did, with sports cars and muscle cars. Show me a 20 year old that wouldn't love to have a Hellcat, or a ZL1 Camero, a Z06 Corvette, or a Shelby or Rouch Mustang. They can't afford them, but you better believe they will be picking up used ones when they get into their price range. When they do finally get one they will tell everyone how they have wanted one for years and finally got it! That is what the motorcycle manufacturers are missing and don't seem to understand. You get customers based on the products you produce that everyone wants, even if they can't afford it. Instead of producing something that people think... I get one of those when I can't ride a 2 wheeler any more, or because my significant other thinks they are safer.

It needs to be something they want because cause they are a f_cking blast to ride. That would be the case with better performance and handling, even if it is only on one model.

I find it amazing that I'm able to buy a 2018 Ford Mustang GT with almost all the luxury add on features for under $50K--base Mustang GT with standard luxury for $40 K range--not to far off from the loaded Spyder. The base GT 460 HP hits 0-60 in 4 sec or less--seats 4--air conditioned-stability features on the upper end the Spyder hasn't even thought of--10 spd automatic trans, 3 yr standard warranty. Makes no logic to me.
Darrell

 

[Yukonf3]

I find it amazing that I'm able to buy a 2018 Ford Mustang GT with almost all the luxury add on features for under $50K--base Mustang GT with standard luxury for $40 K range--not to far off from the loaded Spyder. The base GT 460 HP hits 0-60 in 4 sec or less--seats 4--air conditioned-stability features on the upper end the Spyder hasn't even thought of--10 spd automatic trans, 3 yr standard warranty. Makes no logic to me.
Darrell

I believe we can thank the high end motorcycle market, led by HD for the high prices. The market appears ready to pay $20-$35K for high end motorcycles. Conversely high end snowmobiles and seamobiles go for $15K. Volume also contributes I guess.

The other thing is, with the Mustang you can turn off most of the safety features if and when you want. They've even gone the other way and added things like variable exhaust and line lock. I guess Ford doesn't believe all its customers are idiots who will injure or kill themselves without muting power through s/w control.

 

[Yukonf3]

Hi,

There is also a swedish company called Vtech/Maptun which has specialized in upgrades for "power sport" vehicles lika snowmobiles (Skidoo), water crafts (Seadoo) and also Spyder´s and ATV´s.
When I talked to them they told me they have sold a lot of Spyder software upgrades especially to the US.

Their software stage 2 together with muffler replacement pipe (cat delete) gives a raise from 115 hp to 140 hp

https://www.maptunpowersports.com/tu...er-f3-s-115-hp

Has anyone tried this? Not inexpensive but looks like a good option if you want some flexibility.