Dealer Recall Surging Suggestion

[glynnk]

I would like to chime in with a note to have the tech check your TPS. In all the years I have worked on engines I have never heard of fuel causing a engine to surge. Unless it is ether. Tell them to check the diagnostic point, and the TPS through the range of the throttle.

One of the major repairs, digging into when my spyder was having loads of trouble was them dialing in the throttle body, and the TPS.

Tell your Tech to call Carlo, and get the details of my repair so you get on the right track.

Thanks for the comment, but I'm mechanically challenged...what's the TPS?

Glynnk

 

[glynnk]

:dontknow: 10.8 to 1 seems like pretty high compression to me.
My M109R runs 10.5 to 1 and it recommends high test only.

I think what they have done on our motor is back off the timing to allow for the lower octane fuel. I've run it all but for the last 20K or so I run mid and high test fuel in the Spyder and it runs just fine.

I haven't heard anything myself from BRP about running high test now since the update. I don't know if it's true or not but if it is they need to tell all the dealers the same thing. My dealer made no mention of this yesterday.

So Lamont, you're running premium? My 2009 Spyder is all stock.

Glynnk

 

[ataDude]

Thanks for the comment, but I'm mechanically challenged...what's the TPS?

Glynnk

Throttle Position Sensor.
.

 

[nater1]

Yep Throttle Position Sensor

Throttle Position Sensor GLYNNK

Throttle Position Sensor.
.

 

[BajaRon]

I'm running premium fuel. On my trip to Cal and back I tried all 3 grades. Premium got me the best average mileage of the 3.

 

[dave01]

I'm running premium fuel. On my trip to Cal and back I tried all 3 grades. Premium got me the best average mileage of the 3.

Thanks, gonna fill up with premium in the am before my ride and see how she does.

 

[hondaman]

Mine sptters now after the update also.Backfires a lot now.Also hates very hot days.

 

[DannyS]

Mine is running a little better since I put on the two brothers duel pipe set. However it is a little cooler here. I still get some hesitation around 3500 to 4000. I also have noticed it is a lot more cold blooded it takes much longer to warm up and run smooth. Has anyone contacted two brothers to see if they have tested a Spyder with the new up-date to see what their recommendations are for Juice Box settings?
Danny
PS I have always run regular and still do.:dontknow:

 

[BajaRon]

Thanks, gonna fill up with premium in the am before my ride and see how she does.

I did not get an instant change when I changed fuels. My 1st tank with premium gave me the same mileage I was getting from mid grade. But subsequent tanks got better until I was getting 2~3 MPG better than with the other grade fuels.

I put at least 1,000 miles on each grade of fuel so I felt pretty good about the numbers I ended up with.

Can't say it made any difference in popping on decel or power (as I was not running it in a way to notice if it had more power).

 

[3wheeldemon]

But subsequent tanks got better until I was getting 2~3 MPG better than with the other grade fuels.

I apologize in advance for the lecture:lecturef_smilie: but I really know what I am talking about here (Chemical Engineer, 25 years in oil refining): IN AN ENGINE THAT IS DESIGNED FOR REGULAR GASOLINE (low to medium compression) the MPG you get with different grades of gasoline is fortuitous. The problem is that gasoline sells and is stored by VOLUME, but the energy that contains depend of it MASS (density). If your tank contains more energy (higher density gasoline) and your engine is running efficiently (no knocking), you will get beter mileage. Depending of the season, that determines how much butane (high octane/low density) can be blended in gasoline, depending of the location of the refineries that supply your gas station (example the Texas-NE corridor supplied by the Colonial Pipeline has a lot of refineries with high content of pyrolisis gasoline of high octane/high density) depending of the configuration of the refinery that supplied your gas station that particular day (each refinery uses a different proportion of alkylate, cat cracking gasoline, pyrolisis gasoline, pentanes, butanes and other components all with different octanes and densities) and finally depending of the wildcard of ethanol blending; every time you fill your tank you get a uniquely random gasoline blend that meets specifications.

The only way you can get consistently more mileage out of high octane gasoline is because one of two reasons: you engine is knocking at lower octane (some of the gasoline energy is working AGAINST the rotation of the engine) or you are consistently supplied by a refinery that blends a bit heavier premium gasoline (only possible in captive markets in the mid-continent).

Sorry about this lecture but all these mileage vs. grade theories are 99% BS.

PS: In my industry we love people that buys premium without needing it. So please do not report me.:spyder:


3WD

 

[QuadManiac]

Thanks, Threewheel... in the performance quad arena we know not to use any higher octane level than that which is necessary to prevent pre-ignition, as higher octane ratios slightly reduce the flame front propogation velocity in the cylinder - actually reducing performance a skosh.

 

[DragonSpyder]

I had surging at any constant RPM before the update and idle was rough. Now the idle is smooth and the surging is gone! Instead I now experience the sputter at 3-5K RPM. I am running the o2 modifier and fuel pressure regulator at the same settings as before. I am going to try and install a juicebox to see if that helps.

I have been complaining to BRP/dealers for a year about the surging and they have told me it is normal. Now they make a SW change and it is magically fixed!

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

Gasoline

I apologize in advance for the lecture:lecturef_smilie: but I really know what I am talking about here (Chemical Engineer, 25 years in oil refining): IN AN ENGINE THAT IS DESIGNED FOR REGULAR GASOLINE (low to medium compression) the MPG you get with different grades of gasoline is fortuitous. The problem is that gasoline sells and is stored by VOLUME, but the energy that contains depend of it MASS (density). If your tank contains more energy (higher density gasoline) and your engine is running efficiently (no knocking), you will get beter mileage. Depending of the season, that determines how much butane (high octane/low density) can be blended in gasoline, depending of the location of the refineries that supply your gas station (example the Texas-NE corridor supplied by the Colonial Pipeline has a lot of refineries with high content of pyrolisis gasoline of high octane/high density) depending of the configuration of the refinery that supplied your gas station that particular day (each refinery uses a different proportion of alkylate, cat cracking gasoline, pyrolisis gasoline, pentanes, butanes and other components all with different octanes and densities) and finally depending of the wildcard of ethanol blending; every time you fill your tank you get a uniquely random gasoline blend that meets specifications.

The only way you can get consistently more mileage out of high octane gasoline is because one of two reasons: you engine is knocking at lower octane (some of the gasoline energy is working AGAINST the rotation of the engine) or you are consistently supplied by a refinery that blends a bit heavier premium gasoline (only possible in captive markets in the mid-continent).

Sorry about this lecture but all these mileage vs. grade theories are 99% BS.

PS: In my industry we love people that buys premium without needing it. So please do not report me.:spyder:


3WD

THANKS---Not the first time I have heard that from Educated Folk:thumbup:

But don't you think that 10.8:1 compression Ratio is a little high for the 86/87 octane we are getting; and we may be experiencing some pre-ignition and it not be obviously apparent?

Michael:doorag:

 

[fred]

with no engine mods,stock exhaust and no JB i too had the sputter after the s/w install, dealer asked me to come in and they would re-install it.. they had said that 2 others had the same issue and after reinstalling the s/w all problems were solved....hummm

they re-installed yesterday which resulted in no change, the Spyder was still sputtering.. they scrathed their heads and got the BRP tech folks on the phone ...

1st they changed the spark plugs.. no change.. back on the phone
2nd they changed the evap canister.. no change.. back on the phone
3rd they clamped the vac hose from the engine to the evap can.. restricting the vacumn increasing the mixture getting to the engine
the sputtering has stopped, they asked me to ride on it for the weekend.. but they still do not know how to solve the issue

before the patch i was getting the average 150 miles per tank after the patch it was better; with the clamp in place i rode 83km(52 miles) and consumed roughly 15 liters(4 gallons) of fuel...yikes.. maybe i should loosen the clamp and see what happens(?).. and it was 90+ degrees here and i got stuck in rush hour... i'll fill the tank and run it thru again

the Spyder is running better but can't accept the clamp as the answer ... i will be calling back on Monday:dontknow::gaah:

 

[M2Wild]

I have been complaining to BRP/dealers for a year about the surging and they have told me it is normal. Now they make a SW change and it is magically fixed!

1st they changed the spark plugs.. no change.. back on the phone
2nd they changed the evap canister.. no change.. back on the phone
3rd they clamped the vac hose from the engine to the evap can.. restricting the vacumn increasing the mixture getting to the engine
the sputtering has stopped, they asked me to ride on it for the weekend.. but they still do not know how to solve the issue

before the patch i was getting the average 150 miles per tank after the patch it was better; with the clamp in place i rode 83km(52 miles) and consumed roughly 15 liters(4 gallons) of fuel...yikes.. maybe i should loosen the clamp and see what happens(?).. and it was 90+ degrees here and i got stuck in rush hour... i'll fill the tank and run it thru again

the Spyder is running better but can't accept the clamp as the answer ... i will be calling back on Monday:dontknow::gaah:

Sounds to me like someone screwed the pooch on the SW update without properly test it out first .... tipical of these corporate suits.

 

[3wheeldemon]

THANKS---Not the first time I have heard that from Educated Folk:thumbup:

But don't you think that 10.8:1 compression Ratio is a little high for the 86/87 octane we are getting; and we may be experiencing some pre-ignition and it not be obviously apparent?

Michael:doorag:

Thanks.

Yes, that is possible. Slight knocking is something not easy to notice in a noisy motorcycle. As I said that could be the only valid reason for better mileage with premium. 10.8 is a high compression, inconsistent with the owner's manual recommendation of Regular Gasoline. I have not been able to find the design compression ration of our Rotax. Is that number correct?

3WD

 

[Lamonster]

Thanks.
I have not been able to find the design compression ration of our Rotax. Is that number correct?

3WD

http://spyder.brp.com/NR/rdonlyres/6CFA7C41-7608-4F7D-84B7-610A30FDE807/0/SpyderSpecSheet.pdf

 

[Biker]

Mine sptters now after the update also.Backfires a lot now.Also hates very hot days.

I have to agree with you also. Since I had the DPS thingie done it runs a tad rough and sputters at an even throttle pressure and speed. Unless I hammer it, then it goes away for sure. But I can't ride like that all the time. Sounds like these engines are very sensitive to computer upgrades no matter what it is.

 

[dave01]

One tankful of super-unleaded, quite a few stops to tweek the Juicebox and she is running better than ever. Seems I was a little rich at low rpms, which can be just as bad as lean. Unburned fuel wont compress like air does and you can get a feeling and sound like a compression knock. Leaned her out in mode 1-3 and what a difference. Just a little pop if I dump the throttle from wide open, but that is to be expected from the 2bros pipes. My B-king does the same thing with that exhaust. Seems like the steering is a little more sensitive too, or I am just getting more used to the Spyder.

 

[BLACK WIDOW]

JB

One tankful of super-unleaded, quite a few stops to tweek the Juicebox and she is running better than ever. Seems I was a little rich at low rpms, which can be just as bad as lean. Unburned fuel wont compress like air does and you can get a feeling and sound like a compression knock. Leaned her out in mode 1-3 and what a difference. Just a little pop if I dump the throttle from wide open, but that is to be expected from the 2bros pipes. My B-king does the same thing with that exhaust. Seems like the steering is a little more sensitive too, or I am just getting more used to the Spyder.

What are you running on 1--3, if you don't mind me asking.nojoke

Michael:doorag: