F3 Front Sprocket Inspection

[always young]

After reading about this I'll keep an eye on it, but my bike is still new with less than 1k miles on it. One thought though. Since BRP also builds aircraft, I wonder if the department's talk to each other. They use lockwire all over aircraft, why not use it here? Any A&P mechanic would tell you that! It would prevent the bolt from loosening. Could it be applied here by US? I don't know as I haven't taken my cover off yet to look at it. Just a thought. :dontknow:

 

[cptjam]

Discussed this with Rocky at Coyote powersports in Boerne. He says the problem is that the belt's too tight, and that the bolt is a one-time use. Showed us the service bulletin moving the tension down. Went out and checked SpyderAnn’s F3T, and hers is even lower than the bulletin requires. Hers was just serviced last week. But, with the lower tension, and Doc’s belt tensioner, it rides vibration free!! So, still sciencing all this out. We will keep an eye on this.
Meanwhile, the rally is ramping up in the hills of Texas!!

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Does anyone know the two different Part Numbers of the old & new sprocket? And which is which? And where is that number located?
Dan P
SPYD3R

Dan, since no one had answered your question, I had a few minutes this morning and I pulled some data from Cheap Cycle Parts (good resource). Evidently, there was not a part number change from 15 & 16 to 17. Same number shows up. 705502134. I was surprised at the cost ($105.00) and the bolt was $9.99 - 705502292. Since it is the same part number, I may carry a couple to events with bolts and loctite. Since the deductible is $50, that is not much considering getting stranded somewhere, the tow bill to the shop, then the waiting time for them to get parts and get to it. This is very possible. Have to figure out what would be needed: jack, impact, torque wrench, etc. etc. It would be tough to do on the side of the road without a trailer to carry the jack, etc., but it certainly could be done at an event we would be vending.

If I would be dragging the trailer I would carry supplies to do this on the road. [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Roadster Renovations]

....
Meanwhile, the rally is ramping up in the hills of Texas!!

Wish we were there!! Many ryders have believed that the belt torque was too high on this and what the tech told you makes perfect sense. It is kinda cool that we can now drop the tension down and the Vibration Damper keeps them from vibrating!!

Burrr, it was 41 degrees this morning on my ryde over to Planet Fitness.

 

[zuni]

Hopefully this won't be the story that never ends. No doubt increasing numbers and repeated failures will cause a hit to resale (okay even more than we have already taken). I am a dual repeater. Each failure after about 8,000 miles and in both cases the bolt was still torqued tight. I had looked at the part number for the sprocket before and thought that a new number superseded that of '15 & '16. Will need to go back and check my notes after seeing the above post. After the first failure I was concerned about the shaft. We checked the play of the new sprocket on the shaft and then put the same sprocket on a new transmission and they were identical. After the second failure my transmission was replaced. The first failure there were loads of shavings visible below the sprocket. I thought I was feeling the same vibration the second time but when I looked under the bike there were no shavings. Guess I should have pulled the cover but I thought maybe I was imagining it and just gun shy from the previous failure.

I would love to know the cause for sure but kind of agree with a previous post about how it fits (or doesn't) the shaft. I asked a lot of questions and collected data from other owners trying to narrow down a cause but nothing is immediately obvious. I collected model, serial number, miles, and model year. I thought early build but the serial numbers didn't support it and then it started happening with the 2016's. Thought maybe something about the sprocket setup on the F3 and F3s but then the F3t started having the issue and it has a different swing arm setup. I love my Spyder and have been happy with both my dealer and BRP's response and immediate attention but it would increase my comfort level for long term ownership if something could be identified.

For now I have a couple of thousand miles on my new sprocket and replacement transmission and my fingers crossed.

CJ JAX

 

[SpyderF3-s]

Second failure after 6000 miles

The new dealer said that the shaft should have been replaced the first time because the sprocket will not fit tight and will move on the sprocket when accelerating or slowing down causing the sprocket to wear faster. This is a picture what it looks like this time.

 

[Sarge707]

Went for a ride today and the tension adjustment from before kicked in so I Was 140 On the ground - did more loosening of the axle and took measurements of the axle position and I Have it down to 120 On the ground 100 in the air. Gonna go lower tomorrow and then tighten each adjuster about 1/4 turn when done to make sure the tightener is tight like Ron said. Here are 2 pictures of the socket- Does it have the Dreaded Rust So others may compare theirs?

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Went for a ride today and the tension adjustment from before kicked in so I Was 140 On the ground - did more loosening of the axle and took measurements of the axle position and I Have it down to 120 On the ground 100 in the air. Gonna go lower tomorrow and then tighten each adjuster about 1/4 turn when done to make sure the tightener is tight like Ron said. Here are 2 pictures of the socket- Does it have the Dreaded Rust So others may compare theirs?

From the looks, you are OK. The one I diagnosed in Maggie Valley had red rust all over the front of it. Where the stamped area is on yours.

 

[Chupaca]

Very different....

Here are some shots of the 2012 RS which has a very different sprocket...
though cleaned off you can see the red rust on the output shaft but splines were still good.
also cleaned off and the splines were still good but no longer a tight fit and rocked on the shaft
damage to the bolt which is really a one time use item
most of the damage to the splines was at the outter tip as you can see. Center area still good but loose fitting so I changed the sprocket and bolt w/washer. the gold allens hold on a rather large heavy counter weight that I don't see on other models.

This was caught in time a bit longer and it would have been ugly...just cause I coasted down the hill with everything off.....

 

[cmarsala]

Sprocket

From the looks, you are OK. The one I diagnosed in Maggie Valley had red rust all over the front of it. Where the stamped area is on yours.

I'm a little confused by some of the comments on this thread, what is the problem here, the sprocket, the bolt or the tranny main shaft? Is the sprocket made from cheap metal, (ie) aluminum or is it steel and is it incorrectly made so it doesn't fit right, is the bolt the wrong grade or is the main shaft made from the wrong steel. If it's a bad sprocket is there an after market one available. If the problem is from the bolt coming loose, besides loctite, a safety wired bolt would solve the problem of the bolt coming loose. Would reduced belt tension help prevent this issue? One last question, if this is a common issue is there a Service Bulletin out from BRP with a fix or a recall maybe? I'm a retired aircraft mechanic, so I believe in safety wire, its saved my ass a few times. I've pulled the sprocket cover on mine and it looks fine, I do plan on changing the bolt and installing one that I can safety wire, I'll have to drill a hole in the sprocket as well to do this. Sorry one more question, has Lamonster posted anything about this problem, I haven't seen anything? Thanks everyone:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I'm a little confused by some of the comments on this thread, what is the problem here, the sprocket, the bolt or the tranny main shaft? Is the sprocket made from cheap metal, (ie) aluminum or is it steel and is it incorrectly made so it doesn't fit right, is the bolt the wrong grade or is the main shaft made from the wrong steel. If it's a bad sprocket is there an after market one available. If the problem is from the bolt coming loose, besides loctite, a safety wired bolt would solve the problem of the bolt coming loose. Would reduced belt tension help prevent this issue? One last question, if this is a common issue is there a Service Bulletin out from BRP with a fix or a recall maybe? I'm a retired aircraft mechanic, so I believe in safety wire, its saved my ass a few times. I've pulled the sprocket cover on mine and it looks fine, I do plan on changing the bolt and installing one that I can safety wire, I'll have to drill a hole in the sprocket as well to do this. Sorry one more question, has Lamonster posted anything about this problem, I haven't seen anything? Thanks everyone:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Here is all the links that I know of: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/search.php?searchid=7132144

 

[Freddy]

I don't know what the cause is these days but when Spyders were first released many had the very same issue. The cause then was inadequate torque applied to the retaining bolt on the assembly line. BRP issued a service bulletin (after the horse had bolted (pun intended) for many owners) to retorque the bolt to a higher spec and mark the head with a black X to show it had been done. I did mine when I got it new to 110ft lb (given the grade of bolt in question) at the time and it's still there.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?18252-Front-Sprocket-BRP-Bulletin

 

[zuni]

Here are two previous threads on the issue:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?96898-Front-Sprocket-Failure

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?106578-Lost-Front-Sprocket-AGAIN!

Possible causes?:
1. Sprocket - Not seeing a different part number but was told by a dealership that the part had been superseded.
2. Bolt - Neither of mine came loose
3. Belt Tension - Seems like more bikes would be having the problem
4. Belt material - Too flexible?
5. Vibration - I added the dampener after the first failure but it still happened again
6. Alignment between front and rear sprocket - Was told there is no adjustment to align the two
7. Build time - Thought maybe early model build but it seems to be happening to 2015 and 2016
8. Model - Mostly F3 series though I have heard of at least 1 RT

CJ JAX

 

[Sarge707]

I don't know what the cause is these days but when Spyders were first released many had the very same issue. The cause then was inadequate torque applied to the retaining bolt on the assembly line. BRP issued a service bulletin (after the horse had bolted (pun intended) for many owners) to retorque the bolt to a higher spec and mark the head with a black X to show it had been done. I did mine when I got it new to 110ft lb (given the grade of bolt in question) at the time and it's still there.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?18252-Front-Sprocket-BRP-Bulletin

I remember retorquing my 09 GS At the time and it was Fine when I traded in at 35,000 miles.
It appears you really can,t tell with the F3 until you take the bolt out and view how the two Mesh?

 

[cmarsala]

LINK

Here is all the links that I know of: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/search.php?searchid=7132144

Sorry Roadster Renovations, the link you posted isn't working. I searched as much as I could find, but it seems that there is nothing posted to narrow down the problem, loose bolt, bad sprocket, tranny main shaft or belt vibration. To me it sounds like a combination of things. Belt vibration for one, torque on the bolt and heat. With the transmission getting hot and cooling it's allowing the bolt to loosen up and with the amount of belt tension and vibration causing the sprocket to move enough to allow it to wear and rust. I think a re-torque every 5K, a reduction in belt tension and the belt tensioner to minimize vibration everything should be fine. To me the tension seems awful high, I have 2 Harleys that are belt and the belt tension is no where as high as the Spyder, so I think belt tension is a big contributing cause factor. This is just my 2¢:gaah:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Sorry Roadster Renovations, the link you posted isn't working. I searched as much as I could find, but it seems that there is nothing posted to narrow down the problem, loose bolt, bad sprocket, tranny main shaft or belt vibration. To me it sounds like a combination of things. Belt vibration for one, torque on the bolt and heat. With the transmission getting hot and cooling it's allowing the bolt to loosen up and with the amount of belt tension and vibration causing the sprocket to move enough to allow it to wear and rust. I think a re-torque every 5K, a reduction in belt tension and the belt tensioner to minimize vibration everything should be fine. To me the tension seems awful high, I have 2 Harleys that are belt and the belt tension is no where as high as the Spyder, so I think belt tension is a big contributing cause factor. This is just my 2¢:gaah:

Sorry about the link. It worked when I posted it. Since there are so many possible reasons, I suggest we look at the differences between the RT and the F3. The RT's are having hardly any problems, so my vote is the increased torque due to the larger rear sprocket. Also, if it was a heat issue from the trans, wouldn't the tupperware on the RT make it worse, and not better since the F3 has less and have more air flow?

 

[PapaHotel]

On a side note.....My experience. 2015 RTL 2 up with a trailer, 30K miles on the machine. Prior to my purchase pretty consistent belt vibration 63-74 MPH. I installed the BRP damper shortly after purchase. We rode all day with no issues or warning. Pulled into the motel parking lot when it failed. It sounded like a Power drill ratchet when it failed. Had it flat bedded to the dealer the next day. I have the BRP best warranty. I ended up paying a bit more in deductibles than carrying a spare sprocket. Downtime was three weeks.
Happy for the warranty in that if not caught and fixed immediately, you can damage the shaft spline and that requires engine removal and splitting the case, which can get very expensive.

 

[jcthorne]

We have decided to purchase a spare sprocket and bolt and add it to the tool bag. Hope is it works like my umbrella, as long as I have it with me, I never need it.

There does not seem to be any real way of checking for this problem much before it happens. Seems to go from slight wear to full failure in a very short distance. When it happens, if you have the part its a minor inconvenience. If not, its weeks of down time.

Sprocket and bolt are less than $100. I've spent far more on less insurance.

As Lamont sometimes says, no bike is perfect.

I enjoy this one, warts and all.

 

[JKMSPYDER]

FRONT SPROCKET

J C, my dealer called me today and my front sprocket was about to be toast. They called BRP and it will be covered by warranty. BRP even admitted that it seems to be an ongoing problem with the F3's. So I just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like BRP will cover the repair before complete failure if the dealer can show them the red rust and abnormal spline wear on the sprocket.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

J C, my dealer called me today and my front sprocket was about to be toast. They called BRP and it will be covered by warranty. BRP even admitted that it seems to be an ongoing problem with the F3's. So I just wanted to let everyone know that it looks like BRP will cover the repair before complete failure if the dealer can show them the red rust and abnormal spline wear on the sprocket.

Makes sense to me. Less chance of shaft damage. Congrats!!