Spyder in the shop!

[SpyderF3-s]

Wearable parts

If you think about it, ALL parts on the Spyder are wearable. Pistons, valves, crank.... Does anyone have a list of parts BRP states are "wearable" and are not covered under warranty? I agree the clutch on a SE6 should not have gave out at 28000. Dealer did give me a BRP case number yesterday. I checked with BRPCARE to verify that it is valid. Shop said they sent BRP pictures??? Another day without my Spyder!

 

[monkeyboymorton]

JC beat me to it on the clutch in vehicle semi-auto applications. The internet is full of stories of failures where the manufacturers refuse to repair them even in the warranty period. It's one of the reasons I stick to good old fashioned torque converters as they are bulletproof.

The sudden loss of drive does seem odd for clutch 'wear' though if not preceded by some sign of slipping occuring. It would make me think of a failure of some sort rathe than the result of gradual wear.

 

[jcthorne]

If you think about it, ALL parts on the Spyder are wearable. Pistons, valves, crank.... Does anyone have a list of parts BRP states are "wearable" and are not covered under warranty? I agree the clutch on a SE6 should not have gave out at 28000. Dealer did give me a BRP case number yesterday. I checked with BRPCARE to verify that it is valid. Shop said they sent BRP pictures??? Another day without my Spyder!

Has
the dealer done any work to figure out what is wrong or are they just throwing their hands up and letting BRP worry about it?

I agree with PMK. This does NOT sound like the normal failure mode for a clutch.

 

[SpyderF3-s]

Shop Update

Shop states that all of the friction plates had abnormal wear. Shop sent photos to BRP for evaluation.

 

[JoeA]

Agree totally. How can we be held responsible for a clutch over which we have no control?

So the dealer said all plates had abnormal wear? Did they provide measurements or is some grease money making blind assertions? (Although I typed the question I think we all know the answer.)

Total BS on the oil and filter nonsense. They cannot deny coverage due to that.. providing you used the proper oil, filters, etc.

Now.. on the clutch... I can fully understand that usually a clutch is a wear item and is not covered under warranty.... BUT.. this is an SE... which means the computer operates the clutch via hydraulics. So there's no way for the rider to abuse the clutch like you can with a manual. My take is that clutches on SE models should be covered.

 

[SpyderF3-s]

Update

Shop said that BRP is going to do a "GOOD WILL" replacement of the clutch. BRP reported that they do not recommend using third party oil and that the BUDS report showed that I spend 75% of drive time below 4000 RPM. As far as the below 4000RPM issue, I explained to the shop that I drive 90 miles of Interstate each day, most time stop and go traffic, and the manual recommends shifting between 3000 and 3500. They said that they were only relaying what BRP said.

So I guess I need to go 80mph to get RPM above 4000rpm in 6th gear, or not use 6th gear, lose gas mileage, and only have a certified shop do the oil changes!:banghead:

But at least I am getting it fixed under warranty!:thumbup: Lesson learned!!:sour:

 

[Jeriatric]

Glad they took care of you

Shop said that BRP is going to do a "GOOD WILL" replacement of the clutch. BRP reported that they do not recommend using third party oil and that the BUDS report showed that I spend 65% of drive time below 4000 RPM. As far as the below 4000RPM issue, I explained to the shop that I drive 90 miles of Interstate each day, most time stop and go traffic, and the manual recommends shifting between 3000 and 3500. They said that they were only relaying what BRP said.

So I guess I need to go 80mph to get RPM above 4000rpm in 6th gear, or not use 6th gear, lose gas mileage, and only have a certified shop do the oil changes!:banghead:

But at least I am getting it fixed under warranty!:thumbup: Lesson learned!!:sour:

On your dime a clutch replacement is around 1,000.00. Seems your choice is simple. Penny's saved on fuel - or riding at higher RPM's.

 

[jcthorne]

Shop said that BRP is going to do a "GOOD WILL" replacement of the clutch. BRP reported that they do not recommend using third party oil and that the BUDS report showed that I spend 65% of drive time below 4000 RPM. As far as the below 4000RPM issue, I explained to the shop that I drive 90 miles of Interstate each day, most time stop and go traffic, and the manual recommends shifting between 3000 and 3500. They said that they were only relaying what BRP said.

So I guess I need to go 80mph to get RPM above 4000rpm in 6th gear, or not use 6th gear, lose gas mileage, and only have a certified shop do the oil changes!:banghead:

But at least I am getting it fixed under warranty!:thumbup: Lesson learned!!:sour:

Hooray! Great news indeed. Still would like to know what happened to disintegrate the clutch.

Don't read too much into the oil 'recommendation'. It's not a requirement.

Ford only 'recommends' Motorcraft oil.
GM only 'recommends' AC Delco
Chrysler only 'recommends' Mopar

See a theme here? None of these OEMs, including BRP actually make any lubricants. Its all bottled and packaged by one of the majors with custom labels so they can market it to you. Recommends is marketing speak. REQUIRED is a different story and they can only REQUIRE the use of OEM Branded oil if they are willing to supply it. Federal law and they know it.

They do REQUIRE that you use an oil as specified in the owners manual.

 

[PMK]

Shop said that BRP is going to do a "GOOD WILL" replacement of the clutch. BRP reported that they do not recommend using third party oil and that the BUDS report showed that I spend 65% of drive time below 4000 RPM. As far as the below 4000RPM issue, I explained to the shop that I drive 90 miles of Interstate each day, most time stop and go traffic, and the manual recommends shifting between 3000 and 3500. They said that they were only relaying what BRP said.

So I guess I need to go 80mph to get RPM above 4000rpm in 6th gear, or not use 6th gear, lose gas mileage, and only have a certified shop do the oil changes!:banghead:

But at least I am getting it fixed under warranty!:thumbup: Lesson learned!!:sour:

FWIW, get someone to post the RT ECO mode shift points. Following that has you shift at super low rpms.

 

[cuznjohn]

the first time i saw a buds report on my bike, i could not believe what it told them, so basically your lucky they are fixing it

 

[Buckeye Bleau]

CuznJon, you got yourself one of those $50 Spyder like electric models now, kewl!:yes:

Joe

 

[monkeyboymorton]

Glad you're getting it fixed under warranty, result :thumbup:

As for the 4000rpm, that's the 2nd time that's cropped up in a week from a BUDS report going to BRP. I'm strongly suspecting that someone at BRP HQ is linking lower RPM driving with clutch wear and insufficient oil pressure. As I stated in the other thread 4000rpm is the point the manual states max oil pressure is achieved.

I was on the bike last night and tried driving at no lower than 4000rpm and I don't think it's realistic. Staying above 3K is easily achievable but above 4K just feels wrong for everyday driving. If the clutch requires above 4K to operate correctly then I think it's mismatched to this engine. I have driven in the 2-3K range round town since I've had it and always felt fine.

However, I will now make an effort to stay above 3K, not that I feel there's any real certainty it will save me from an early clutch replacement bill.

 

[SpyderF3-s]

Still going to cost me $$$ to get Spyder back

Having the shop do the 28000 mile service while they have it. Saving about $300 on the entire service. Normally I would do it myself but worried BRP next time there is a questionable issue they might not cover. Got to keep the paperwork trail!! So I should get my Spyder back by Tuesday. Wife says the Spyder is like having a Porsche, service costs are outrageous!

 

[jcthorne]

I have not once seen BRP deny warranty coverage for not having maintenance service done at a dealer. They have asked for receipts if you had it done elsewhere or yourself but never denied coverage for it. It would be against the law anyway but they have never pushed that one. They are sticklers for following what is and is not covered in the text of the warranty though.

 

[Road-Kill]

I cruise at 3000 RPMs as my routine up to sixth gear then I have no choice to rev higher. My ryde does not feel comfy letting the engine rev too high......and just to "lube" the engine? I also shift at just over 3000 RPMs (SE6) If my dealer tells me to let it rev at 4000 RPMs in two years I'll sell it. I'm not going to REV my engine cause BRP cant build a quality machine. So far I have near 5,000 trouble free miles and am very happy with my purchase but will sell it at the first sign of trouble. I'm stress free and staying that way.

 

[WellsboroSpyder]

??

Not sure if f3 has it but doesn't using ECO mode have you shifting get at lower RPM? And also has anyone. Heard of rt having premature clutch wear?

 

[Ron2andia]

Good luck with getting taken care of. Hope it happens soon and you are on the road again shortly!

 

[BRPcare]

Hi everyone, just wanted to clear up a bit of confusion:

Firstly, on Spyder models with the ACE 1330 powertrain, you do not "need to shift at 4000rpm". Please drive the vehicle how you see fit and the transmission will handle it.

Secondly, you will not be denied warranty coverage if you use an oil that meets the recommended BRP specs - it is imperative that the oil used meets the BRP requirements as stated in the owner’s manual. Make sure you are using motorcycle and not car oil, and for ryders of the SE6 transmissions, make sure your oil is JASO MA2 certified (wet clutch compatible).

Ryde safe,

Owen

 

[Road-Kill]

Hi everyone, just wanted to clear up a bit of confusion:

Firstly, on Spyder models with the ACE 1330 powertrain, you do not "need to shift at 4000rpm". Please drive the vehicle how you see fit and the transmission will handle it.

Secondly, you will not be denied warranty coverage if you use an oil that meets the recommended BRP specs - it is imperative that the oil used meets the BRP requirements as stated in the owner’s manual. Make sure you are using motorcycle and not car oil, and for ryders of the SE6 transmissions, make sure your oil is JASO MA2 certified (wet clutch compatible).

Ryde safe,

Owen

Thank You! Straight from a reliable source. Kuddos to BRP for stopping the BS before the Einstein's and know-it-alls would have us racing around for no reason. You just restored my faith in BRP customer service.

 

[PMK]

Hi everyone, just wanted to clear up a bit of confusion:

Firstly, on Spyder models with the ACE 1330 powertrain, you do not "need to shift at 4000rpm". Please drive the vehicle how you see fit and the transmission will handle it.

Secondly, you will not be denied warranty coverage if you use an oil that meets the recommended BRP specs - it is imperative that the oil used meets the BRP requirements as stated in the owner’s manual. Make sure you are using motorcycle and not car oil, and for ryders of the SE6 transmissions, make sure your oil is JASO MA2 certified (wet clutch compatible).

Ryde safe,

Owen

Owen, good to know. Curious though, did you kind of add the JASO MA2 spec or have we all been overlooking it. I do not recall any Can Am documentation indication anything more than motorcycle oil, but no reference to JASO MA2.